Week 8 Ravens at Browns

Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
It absolutely is not explained.

You're speaking about conjecture based on nothing concrete.

I also can't believe you and buzzdog got me to give "worsttakes" a view count. I feel dirty and I'm going to hold onto that grudge for a while.
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You still haven't explained something. If KS and Dorsey had the offense ticking like a Swiss watch, but it was all Watson fucking it up as you seem to think... why did they change the play calling method, for the first time since KS has been head coach?

They did it... just because? And, this resulted in immediate improvements in all the basic functions that have been failing in our losses this season. Coincidence?
 
buzzdog said:
You still haven't explained something. If KS and Dorsey had the offense ticking like a Swiss watch, but it was all Watson fucking it up as you seem to think... why did they change the play calling method, for the first time since KS has been head coach?

They did it... just because? And, this resulted in immediate improvements in all the basic functions that have been failing in our losses this season. Coincidence?
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I'm not responding because your framing is illogical.

You don't get to make something up and then try to use "Well, what's the reason then? If you don't have an answer, it validates the thing I made up!"

The answer is "I don't know." That doesn't mean that your baseless conjecture that flies directly opposed to all available evidence is suddenly with merit.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
I also can't believe you and buzzdog got me to give "worsttakes" a view count. I feel dirty and I'm going to hold onto that grudge for a while.
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Not sure what your axe is to grind against this guy. He's been dragging Watson for awhile, rightfully so. I'll take his football opinions over what I can read here 10x out of 10. Here people's takes are pretty much 90% stat based, not much else.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
I'm not responding because your framing is illogical.

You don't get to make something up and then try to use "Well, what's the reason then? If you don't have an answer, it validates the thing I made up!"

The answer is "I don't know." That doesn't mean that your baseless conjecture that flies directly opposed to all available evidence is suddenly with merit.
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LOL. Illogical? Compared to all the personality based conjecture about Haslam wanting to throw Stef under the bus, or Stef wanting to throw Dorsey under the bus... that I've seen here? Or just blaming it all on Watson like you seem to do?

It's way more logical than any of the bullshit I've seen here.
 
buzzdog said:
LOL. Illogical?
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Yes.
buzzdog said:
Compared to all the personality based conjecture about Haslam wanting to throw Stef under the bus, or Stef wanting to throw Dorsey under the bus... that I've seen here? Or just blaming it all on Watson like you seem to do?

It's way more logical than any of the bullshit I've seen here.
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:chuckle:

I love how you frame it as "blaming it all on Watson" when multiple people have explained each piece of the puzzle to you, and every piece of evidence we have over multiple years supports the conclusions as well.

How many more experiments with QB as the independent variable need to be run for you to accept the results?

I'm guessing it won't matter--you just want to grind that axe.
 
There’s a reason why a whole bunch of things that appeared to be problems in weeks 1-7 didn’t look like problems at all in week 8.

And changing the guy who reads the play off the playsheet into the headset isn’t the reason.
 
Lee said:
I think there is some truth to what @buzzdog is saying.

But to say Watsons only issues was not throwing down field and not getting his reads quick enough is like saying other than that how was the play Mrs Lincoln.
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Exactly.

Not all his fault, but the parts that weren't his fault could be overcome by better QB play. Conversely, the rest of the team could not overcome Watson's own faults.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
Exactly.

Not all his fault, but the parts that weren't his fault could be overcome by better QB play. Conversely, the rest of the team could not overcome Watson's own faults.
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The line still had issues watching the tape, but Watson was not throwing down field, was not stepping into the pocket, and wasnt feeling the rush. His throws were late and often to the check downs only.

75% on Watson, its not a coincidence that we doubled our offensive output with a new QB
 
CBBI said:
There’s a reason why a whole bunch of things that appeared to be problems in weeks 1-7 didn’t look like problems at all in week 8.

And changing the guy who reads the play off the playsheet into the headset isn’t the reason.
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Then. Why. Did. They. Make. The. Change?
 
at this point I honestly kind of believe they made the change to stir the exact conversations that are happening in this very thread

Sow a seed of doubt that this was as simple as changing QBs to leave the door open for Watson

The better Winston plays the harder and harder that argument gets, but I have seen this team do all kinds of gymnastics to cater to and then protect Watson at every turn. Making sure they’re able to point to another variable that changed before the offense turns around is what I’ve settled on. I don’t think this team is as done with Watson as the fans… yet
 
buzzdog said:
Then. Why. Did. They. Make. The. Change?
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Why didn't they make the change at QB weeks 1-7?

Sometimes there's just not an answer that's going to satisfy the bloodlust.
 
Our offense has been a comedy or errors and incompetence all season. Not only have there been too many penalties and unforced errors, but they have also come in clusters at the worst possible times to kill potential scoring drives. This is a quick AI query about the penalties so far this season:
  • Week 7 vs. Bengals
    The Browns had 10 penalties, including six against the offense, for a loss of 80 yards
  • Week 6 vs. Eagles
    The Browns had seven offensive penalties, including four against the offensive line
  • Game vs. Jaguars
    The Browns had 13 penalties for a loss of 100 yards
  • First two games
    The Browns had 24 penalties, which was double the average NFL team's penalties per game
Penalties can have a major impact on a game, as they can hurt a team's ability to score points and gain momentum. For example, in a game against the Jaguars, the Browns had four penalties on a drive late in the fourth quarter, which prevented them from putting the game away.

I know it's blasphemy and a violation of group-think to have an opinion that this wasn't completely Watson's fault. But the Browns made a structural change to mitigate some of the root causes of the error prone, inept offense that went beyond one position on the field.

Add the fact that some of our veteran OL finally came back and pass protection was exponentially better except for some blitz pick-ups. Yes, Winston gets the ball out faster than Watson. But against the Ravens there was a number of plays where he had all day top throw also, which was a first for this season. I know, blasphemy.

It was 99.99999% Watson's fault. Not 75%, not 60%. All the penalties, all the sacks, all the drops, all Watson's fault.

There, did I say it right?
 
buzzdog said:
a violation of group-think
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Cmon man this isn’t good faith

I was one of the very first people to turn on Watson and say he was the majority of the problem. I’m not just hopping on because everyone changed their mind. But also, if a large group of new people changed their mind based on additional data that they didn’t have previously, I think it’s pretty shitty to just ascribe it to group think

I’ve laid out a lot of reasons I believe Watson was the vast majority of the issue. I genuinely think his play this year rivals some of the very worst QBs we have ever had on this team. Thats backed by both data and just watching every browns game for the last 20 years. The fact that people fawned over the Raiders game (which I’m sure people are about to chime in with how that was actually a good game) is a perfect example of just how insanely bad Watson was. The bar was on the floor so if he tripped over a blade of grass he was applauded for it

The offense was historically bad. That wasn’t primarily driven by the 2 time coach of the year who specializes in offense

The offense will continue to look better. That isn’t a result of a new play caller
 
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