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Week 9: Buccaneers @ Browns: 1:00 P.M. on FOX

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Or helping out the run game with a consistent pass game to avoid the loaded box.
Many running backs have experienced consistent success with quarterbacking much worse than Hoyer. This argument sucks, frankly.

Heck, the Browns have pumped out multiple 1,000 yard rushers in the past with quartebacks like McCoy, Derek Anderson, and Dilfer/Frye.
 
Many running backs have experienced consistent success with quarterbacking much worse than Hoyer. This argument sucks, frankly.

Heck, the Browns have pumped out multiple 1,000 yard rushers in the past with quartebacks like McCoy, Derek Anderson, and Dilfer/Frye.

What consistent success?

I'm not blaming Hoyer, the main problem is obviously the loss of Alex Mack on the interior offensive line. But what that's done is allowed teams to force Hoyer to beat them, a prospect which probably isn't going to bode well for this team in the long run.

He was not very impressive today. that can't really be argued. Though I'm sure you'll try.

I'll take the W and hope it's better on a short week against a better team.
 
Just a generic question, because I saw it at the last replay. Hoyer's pick on the slant.

Did Hawkins throw his arm up too early, because it honestly looked like he could have tipped that ball. AWFUL throw, but I couldn't really tell.

I'm really sick of Hoyer's death throws, though. The throw to Benji in the first quarter (might have been the first drive) should have resulted in him getting wrecked. Hawkins got wrecked. Dray? got wrecked on the tipped pick. Only a matter of time until we're carrying someone off on a stretcher.
 
I've maintained that Hoyer has about 3-4 passes he would like back every game, but the bigger issue is his lack of weapons and now the utter inability of the line to control pressure up the middle. Jacksonville exposed it, now everyone knows it. That just about covers it, hopefully Gordon and Cameron change that.
 
What consistent success?

I'm not blaming Hoyer, the main problem is obviously the loss of Alex Mack on the interior offensive line. But what that's done is allowed teams to force Hoyer to beat them, a prospect which probably isn't going to bode well for this team in the long run.

He was not very impressive today. that can't really be argued. Though I'm sure you'll try.

I'll take the W and hope it's better on a short week against a better team.
Look, I try to be as impartial as I can. Does he make bad throws? Some head scratchers? Sure.

He also makes some good throws, threads the needle at times, and leads the occasional 6-for-6 touchdown drive.

He can be a very bipolar quarterback (typically hitting both ends of the extreme within the same game). That said, on a general/overall basis, he gets it done.

"Not impressive" doesn't win 5 out of 8 football games especially when he's had no run support. If you want to argue that he's average and upgradable, I get it. But in the here and now, he's the best option for this team and he's shown that he can win football games.

I see a "bad" QB on certain throws, but he tends to bounce back to Earth.
 
He hasn't won 5-of-8 without any run support, but yes I would say he's average or a little below.

He'll need to be better than that.
 
He hasn't won 5-of-8 without any run support, but yes I would say he's average or a little below.

He'll need to be better than that.
Oh, I agree, I was trying to imply he's had no run support over the last 3 weeks.
 
I've maintained that Hoyer has about 3-4 passes he would like back every game, but the bigger issue is his lack of weapons and now the utter inability of the line to control pressure up the middle. Jacksonville exposed it, now everyone knows it. That just about covers it, hopefully Gordon and Cameron change that.

You've mentioned the poor OL play and the lack of talent with the WR's a number of times while excusing Hoyer's inconsistencies.

I wouldn't necessarily describe the OL play as "bad". Are they giving Hoyer all day to pass like before Mack went down and the NFL didn't realize the Browns can actually run the ball? No. Teams are stacking the box constantly-- even if Mack were healthy, we wouldn't be running the ball as well as we had been. Plus Gerald McCoy gets his every week, it was going to be a tough Sunday for the OL regardless.....

The WR's have been pretty incredible by every measurement. Per PFF, Hawkins is 6th, Gabriel 16th and Hawkins 28th-- so I don't really know what you mean by lack of weapons-- these current receivers are catching just about everything. If you're saying Gordon is going to make Hoyer more accurate or something, then I don't agree.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that these two position groups have been a bigger part of the solution than the problem thus far this season. I just don't think the defense of some Hoyer criticism should come at the expense of the OL or WR's.
 
Regardless of where it ranks aesthetically, this was a big win. There's a monumental difference between being 5-3 going into Cincinnati (with a chance to be in a first-place tie with a win) and being 4-4 (one loss away from the season potentially spiraling out of control.) Not to mention they've ensured themselves of at least a .500 record when Josh Gordon comes back.

I'll take 2-1 with two home wins out of this Jacksonville/Oakland/Tampa Bay stretch. This team isn't at the level where you can just count wins before they're played. They slipped up badly against the Jags but bounced back.

Also, this felt like a game they would have lost in previous years.
 
Oh, I agree, I was trying to imply he's had no run support over the last 3 weeks.

Yes and luckily he has been playing really shitty defenses. Hell, even that didn't matter against Jacksonville.
 
Was nice to see an actual return there by Gabriel. I think we've given up on the Travis Benjamin experiment, he fumbles or muffs probably 1/3 of the time. I'd like us to bring in a competent return guy so I dont have to watch Leonard or Marlon Moore back there anymore.

Gabriel could do it probably, but I dont want to see our best or 2nd best receiver (cant decide if hes better than Hawkins) get hurt.

The Hoyer stats are average, but his 90 rating is better than anyone we've had here since... Kelly Holcomb in 2004. Not that a 90 is earth shattering or anything, but its just nice not to have Colt McCoy, Brandon Weeden, or Brady Quinn out there. This wasnt his best game, he had 2 INTs with those TDs, and they were both bad ones (the INT on a 50 yard bomb on 3rd down doesnt really hurt, but stopping a drive in scoring territory or giving it up inside our own 20 does). But it was going to happen sometime and I'm glad he persevered through it, even when the boo birds and calls for Johnny came out. So much for that home field advantage...

I'm not sure if it was our defensive adjustments or the Bucs just not going to the run in the 2nd half but it was nice to have some run D in the second half, though I think they only gave it to Rainey 3 times after he torched us for 5+ yards each play in the first half.

All in all we're 5-3 and the best part about this coming game is that we're not going to be favored. We always seem to perform crappiest in the games we're "supposed" to win.
 
We could win the Super Bowl and people would still complain.

I'm glad we won and I'm glad we're 5-3, but these last two wins, and these last three games in general, have been really unsatisfying. It's like our 10-6 Derek Anderson season, we went 10-6 but anyone who knew football knew that was a fluke or at least had an uneasy feeling about it.

We're having that same uneasy feeling now, and while we are more talented than we were that season, the feeling is warranted.
 
I'm glad we won and I'm glad we're 5-3, but these last two wins, and these last three games in general, have been really unsatisfying. It's like our 10-6 Derek Anderson season, we went 10-6 but anyone who knew football knew that was a fluke or at least had an uneasy feeling about it.

We're having that same uneasy feeling now, and while we are more talented than we were that season, the feeling is warranted.
While I agree, I also like to point out we are 5-3 with Cameron missing multiple of games, Gordon out the whole season to this point and Mack being out the last 3 games. We got lucky in that our schedule was weak just at the time we needed it because of injurys. But I have a hard time not liking this team with a healthy Gordon and Cameron on offense.
 

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