Welcome Andre Drummond

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Murph

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Next season Drummond will be paid as one of the elite players in the league. He will have at least one teammate who has been an NBA champion. He will be playing for a good coach, on a team that at least hopes to be a playoff contender. But he has no guarantees after next season.
If he expects to get an attractive contract extension, he needs to play like he's paid.
Last year, Drummond was the 36th highest paid player in the NBA. He's not paid as an elite player by today's NBA standards, and he was not over-paid.

Last season, the Pistons destroyed Drummond's market value. But he wants to stay in Cleveland. I'm guessing the Cavs can resign Drummond at a bargain.

The thing I like most about Altman is that he thinks outside the box. While most NBA GMs are chasing the latest trend, Altman is thinking ahead. He stole both KPJ and Drummond from the Pistons. Both KPJ and Drummond were way, way undervalued at the time Altman acquired them.

If he's smart, which he is, Altman will resign Drummond to 5 years at around $20 million a year. $20 million a year is a bargain basement price for a guy who is putting up historic rebounding numbers.
 
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J_J

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Drummond is the type of guy who makes you go wow but then he does the opposite when you just shake your head in disgust. Sometimes you just need to know your weaknesses. It is always great To improve your weak points but it is important to know your strengths which TT does really well. I believe with right mentor like TT and JB with a good defensive mind coach can give wonders to Drummond. He did have a defensive vote for DMVP this past season. He just needs to understand what he can do.
 

ansatsusha80

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While,I have my issues with Drummond, we did went 4-4 with him...
 

Cavatt

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While,I have my issues with Drummond, we did went 4-4 with him...
Moving TT to the bench with Larry made the Bench really good and Delly was balling out the last part of the year. Darius being out helped too.

I do think the starting lineup with Kevin is better with Drummond. I would not mind 20M per year. Above that I don't think so. Sucks that he thinks he is a failure to only make 20M
 

cabs

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If we make the playoffs in my opinion it’ll most likely be because Drummond carried us like he did the Pistons. He may not be the type of center you want on a championship team but he is good enough to drag a team to the 8th seed in the East
 

Pioneer10

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That is simply not true. Last year, before acquiring Drummond, the Cavs were 13-39 (.250) and were the 2nd worst team in the NBA. After acquiring Drummond, they went 6-7 (.462). The Cavs winning percentage increased by .212 with Drummond.

Last year, before they traded Drummond, the Pistons were 19-34 (.358). After they dumped Drummond they were 1-12 (.077), and became the single worst team in the NBA. The Pistons winning percentage decreased by .281 without Drummond.

Over the course of a full season, this represents 17-23 wins.
Team record ain't helpful: Detroit was actively trying to tank, you have to take in SOS, etc in account as well
Freakin Delladova is guy who makes the Cavs get wins when he gets minutes as an example

Drummonds RAPM
2020 -1.55
2019 0.05
2018 -1.06

He's been a net negative in 2 out of 3 years and the other season he was basically neutral
 

Murph

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Team record ain't helpful: Detroit was actively trying to tank, you have to take in SOS, etc in account as well
Freakin Delladova is guy who makes the Cavs get wins when he gets minutes as an example

Drummonds RAPM
2020 -1.55
2019 0.05
2018 -1.06

He's been a net negative in 2 out of 3 years and the other season he was basically neutral
Dellavedova has played for the Cavs for 2 season, during which time the Cavs had the 2nd worst record in the NBA. And they would have had the single worst record, had they not acquired Drummond and gone 4-4 with him down the stretch last season.

Advanced stats are useful, but they have to be used in conjunction with common sense.
 

prf100

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We’re going to see a whole season (or... maybe a good chunk of a season) with Drummond on the roster - should answer our concerns quite quickly.
 
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What concerns me about Drummond is he wants to be a power forward. He wants to showcase his athleticism. After coming to the Cavs last year he was jacking up three-point shots. He said he'd been wanting to do it for years.

...sources said teams also weren’t inquiring with the volume one might expect for a 26-year-old, two-time All-Star because some heavily questioned whether or not his play equates to winning...

It’s been a challenge to properly evaluate Drummond’s impact because Detroit hasn’t properly built a team around him all these years.
However, his style of play didn’t always match what the coaches were trying to accomplish....he also would often deviate from Dwane Casey’s offensive philosophy — which is founded on dribble penetration, kick-outs to the perimeter, inside-out play and spacing — to make his presence felt. He’d hunt post-up and face-up opportunities. - James Edwards III, the Athletic

The days of the post-up guys … those days are gone. You can’t make enough of those to win in today’s game. He’s at about 50 percent (of getting the ball in the post and kicking it out), but we have to get that up to 80 or 90 percent...Dwane Casey, Pistons head coach, after the trade

Under Casey, the Pistons are attempting to play a modern NBA style, and Drummond is a traditional center lost in a non-traditional world. Offensively, Detroit needed Drummond to do less. Screens, rim-running and rebounding is all that Casey wanted. Yet it always felt like Drummond wanted to do more. He wanted to show that the one-on-one aspect of his game — a facet he desperately tried to improve over the years — could still be effective in modern times. Drummond wanted to prove to others that he was, in fact, the caliber of player he saw himself as. In turn, it put a dent in his value around the league. - James Williams III, the Athletic’s Pistons beat writer

The trade deadline should be a sobering reality for Drummond. If there weren’t teams lining up to offer more than the Cavs’ scraps, then there aren’t going to be teams lining up for him this summer, either. A contender could’ve traded for him now and obtained his Bird rights in the hopes of working out a long-term deal. No one thought enough of him to do that. If Drummond wants to play elsewhere, he’ll likely have to take a significant pay cut from the $29 million owed to him next year. That rarely happens these days. I’d be surprised if he’s anywhere besides Cleveland. - James Williams III, after the trade
 

The Human Q-Tip

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And they would have had the single worst record, had they not acquired Drummond and gone 4-4 with him down the stretch last season.
Don't you mean if Beilein hadn't quit, and been replaced by a coach who was at least halfway competent for the final 13 games of the season?

Advanced stats are useful, but they have to be used in conjunction with common sense.
Okay, so let's look at both common sense and advanced stats to see whether the 1) the coaching change or 2) Drummond, is more than likely the cause of improvement.

After Bickertstaff had taken over with 13 games left, and while Drummond was on the roster, the Cavs had three impressive wins against teams with a winning record: the Sixers, the Heat, and the Nuggets., Drummond was inactive against the Sixers, and didn't play at all against the Nuggets. So credit for those two wins has to go to Bickerstaff rather than to Drummond. Drummond did play against the Heat, but was very ineffective, going -15 in 24 minutes. The only reason we won that game Bickerstaff switched it up, and went with a frontcourt of TT, Love, and Nance. Those guys together were over +50. So I think both common sense and advanced stats tells us that credit for all three of those signature wins has to go to the Bickerstaff over Drummond.

Now as you pointed out, we did go 4-4 in the games Drummond played. But one of those wins was the win against the Heat discussed above in which Drummond went -15. The other three wins were against Atlanta, Washington, and the Spurs, all of whom were lottery teams with losing records. I don't see that as anything to celebrate as strong evidence of a team improvement due to Drummond. I'm not saying he's bad or a bum, but the most obvious cause of the late-season turnaround is that coaching change, not Drummond.
 
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Pioneer10

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Dellavedova has played for the Cavs for 2 season, during which time the Cavs had the 2nd worst record in the NBA. And they would have had the single worst record, had they not acquired Drummond and gone 4-4 with him down the stretch last season.

Advanced stats are useful, but they have to be used in conjunction with common sense.
Sigh: you must be new here. Dellavedova as every Cavs fan is a very limited basketball player but he still knows how to play the game the right way and make people around him better by just being smart. The problem is the Cavs aren't very good to start with and that includes Drummond. Common sense says that looks like a good basketball player but actually watching the game, he just isn't and that's what the advanced stats show
 

Murph

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Sigh: you must be new here. Dellavedova as every Cavs fan is a very limited basketball player but he still knows how to play the game the right way and make people around him better by just being smart. The problem is the Cavs aren't very good to start with and that includes Drummond. Common sense says that looks like a good basketball player but actually watching the game, he just isn't and that's what the advanced stats show
Sigh. I agree, Dellavedova is a very limited basketball player.
 
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Dellevedova had the highest +/- of any player on the team last year other than Zizic and Henson (very small samples). With Delly on the floor the Cavs outscored their opponents by 8.4 points per 100 possessions. He makes the players around him better through his intelligence and good decision making. And this was a season where his 3-point shot wasn't dropping because he was working on a new stroke. He missed a lot of wide open threes he was making in previous years. His 3-point percentage was 23.1%, down from a career average of 36.8%.

In terms of five-man units, the Cavs' best lineup last year (minimum of 100 possessions) was Sexton, Delly, Cedi, Love and Thompson. That unit outscored opponents by 11.0 points per 100 possessions (the Cavs averaged 102.4 possessions per game).

There was an interesting lineup of Sexton, Delly, Love, Nance, and Drummond that outscored opponents by 33.3 points per 100 possessions. That lineup was only on the floor for 33 possessions but we could see it this year if they bring back Delly.

That lineup had a huge front line but there was also a small lineup of Sexton, Delly, Porter, Love and Henson that outscored opponents by 13.3 points per 100. That sample was 27 possessions. Put Drummond or TT in for Henson and we might have something.

Getting back to Drummond, the lineup of Sexton, Garland, Cedi, Love, and Drummond, which could be our starting lineup to begin the season, was a -34.5 per 100 based on 109 possessions. That lineup was awful. Overall Drummond was a -16.1, by far the worst on the team. However, part of that may be due to joining the team in mid-season.

In 2019-20 the Pistons were a little better when Drummond was on the floor by about two points per 100 possessions. But his usage rate was in the 94th percentile, meaning he dominated the ball on offense. Drummond's points per shot attempt was in the 28th percentile. A lot of shots, not a lot of points. Part of that was due to him being a bad free throw shooter. Also, his turnover rate was extremely high placing him in only the 11th percentile.

Last year Drummond made 54% of his field goal attempts which is right on his career average. But since he rarely shoots 3's (and made only 28%) his field goals are only worth 2 points. When he's fouled he makes only 58% of his free throws which explains the low points per shot number.

In the 18-19 season Drummond was outstanding for the Pistons. They outscored opponents by 11.1 points per 100 when he was on the floor, placing him in the 96th percentile of centers. With Drummond on the floor the Pistons were in the 99th percentile in points per possession and the 94th percentile in offensive rebounds. Defensively they were average. The Pistons finished 41-41 with Drummond averaging 17.3 ppg, 15.6 rebounds, 1.7 blocks, and 1.7 steals.

If the Cavs can figure out a way to use Drummond's skills within the concept of what they are trying to do as a team (which Detroit gave up on trying to do) he could be a huge contributor. But it will probably involve him handling the ball less and taking fewer shots than he would like. I think the hope is that at this point he just wants to win and will accept whatever role Bickerstaff has in mind. If not this will be his last year in a Cavs uni.
 
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Cavatt

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Dellevedova had the highest +/- of any player on the team last year other than Zizic and Henson (very small samples). With Delly on the floor the Cavs outscored their opponents by 8.4 points per 100 possessions. He makes the players around him better through his intelligence and good decision making. And this was a season where his 3-point shot wasn't dropping because he was working on a new stroke. He missed a lot of wide open threes he was making in previous years. His 3-point percentage was 23.1%, down from a career average of 36.8%.

In terms of five-man units, the Cavs' best lineup last year (minimum of 100 possessions) was Sexton, Delly, Cedi, Love and Thompson. That unit outscored opponents by 11.0 points per 100 possessions (the Cavs averaged 102.4 possessions per game).

There was an interesting lineup of Sexton, Delly, Love, Nance, and Drummond that outscored opponents by 33.3 points per 100 possessions. That lineup was only on the floor for 33 possessions but we could see it this year if they bring back Delly.

That lineup had a huge front line but there was also a small lineup of Sexton, Delly, Porter, Love and Henson that outscored opponents by 13.3 points per 100. That sample was 27 possessions. Put Drummond or TT in for Henson and we might have something.

Getting back to Drummond, the lineup of Sexton, Garland, Cedi, Love, and Drummond, which could be our starting lineup to begin the season, was a -34.5 per 100 based on 109 possessions. That lineup was awful. Overall Drummond was a -16.1, by far the worst on the team. However, part of that may be due to joining the team in mid-season.

In 2019-20 the Pistons were a little better when Drummond was on the floor by about two points per 100 possessions. But his usage rate was in the 94th percentile, meaning he dominated the ball on offense. Drummond's points per shot attempt was in the 28th percentile. A lot of shots, not a lot of points. Part of that was due to him being a bad free throw shooter. Also, his turnover rate was extremely high placing him in only the 11th percentile.

Last year Drummond made 54% of his field goal attempts which is right on his career average. But since he rarely shoots 3's (and made only 28%) his field goals are only worth 2 points. When he's fouled he makes only 58% of his free throws which explains the low points per shot number.

In the 18-19 season Drummond was outstanding for the Pistons. They outscored opponents by 11.1 points per 100 when he was on the floor, placing him in the 96th percentile of centers. With Drummond on the floor the Pistons were in the 99th percentile in points per possession and the 94th percentile in offensive rebounds. Defensively they were average. The Pistons finished 41-41 with Drummond averaging 17.3 ppg, 15.6 rebounds, 1.7 blocks, and 1.7 steals.

If the Cavs can figure out a way to use Drummond's skills within the concept of what they are trying to do as a team (which Detroit gave up on trying to do) he could be a huge contributor. But it will probably involve him handling the ball less and taking fewer shots than he would like. I think the hope is that at this point he just wants to win and will accept whatever role Bickerstaff has in mind. If not this will be his last year in a Cavs uni.
Great post. Yeah, that's what it comes down to. Drummond can be effective if he buys in, but he will dominate the ball if not. | Do think Drummond wants to fit in, but he is in a weird place where he probably feels panicky about his career.
 
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