Welcome Andre Drummond

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Murph

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"Dellevedova had the highest +/- of any player on the team last year other than Zizic and Henson (very small samples). With Delly on the floor the Cavs outscored their opponents by 8.4 points per 100 possessions. He makes the players around him better through his intelligence and good decision making. And this was a season where his 3-point shot wasn't dropping because he was working on a new stroke. He missed a lot of wide open threes he was making in previous years. His 3-point percentage was 23.1%, down from a career average of 36.8%."

So the plus/minus numbers are implying that Dellavedova was the best player on the team? Call me skeptical. Again, I have to point out that while advanced stats are useful, they should be used in conjunction with common sense.
 
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Drummond can be effective if he buys in, but he will dominate the ball if not. I do think Drummond wants to fit in, but he is in a weird place where he probably feels panicky about his career.
That's the key right there. The column in The Athletic pointed out that Drummond must have been a little shocked that the Pistons, who he had been an All-Star with for two seasons, traded him for "Cavs scraps" when he was only 26.

I'm sure he's looking around the league and seeing the change in philosophy to "positionless basketball" with the emphasis on movement, flow, and three-point shooting. Teams want bigs who can run the floor and shoot from outside, opening up the paint for slashers.

The Cavs have slashers in Sexton and Porter. I don't think Bickerstaff wants to play an offense that revolves around a big man in the low post, especially a 54% shooter who commits a lot of turnovers and is weak at free throw shooting.

But Drummond is an extraordinary rebounder at both ends of the floor. He's not an outside shooter, however, and if they try to spot him up at the 3-point line his defender will be free to roam and double team. I'm actually wondering why the Cavs traded for him.

This is a player we’ve always coveted,” Altman said during a conference call with reporters on Friday morning. “He just gives us a dimension we haven’t had in quite some time. We just thought it was an unbelievable opportunity for our franchise and for our players to play alongside Andre."

“It came out of nowhere,” Altman told cleveland.com. “Nobody saw this coming.”

When executives gathered Thursday morning, there was consensus. The Cavs wanted Drummond. They came to the conclusion that Drummond would be helpful to the team’s growth, not detrimental....“Adding a talent of this magnitude is something that we couldn’t pass up and he also fits our timeline in terms of his age -- he’s 26 years old -- so he fits with some of our younger guys.” (Altman said)

“I think in terms of his age and what he brings to our team, absolutely we consider him a potential long-term play,” Altman said.

The underrated part of Andre’s game is his passing and he can stay on the perimeter. And as you know, we play with lots of pick and rolls,” Altman said. “With this trade and in mind, we thought of our younger players, and we thought about how additive this would be in terms of helping them develop. And when you have a rolling, lob threat like Andre Drummond, how much does that open up for our younger guards and playmakers on this team? We run a number of pick and rolls and that’s not going to change. In terms of him playing on the perimeter, that’s part of his game. He can hit guys on the back-door pass, he can slip and dive and then the offensive rebounding is the key to anybody’s offense, so we’re excited about that as well.”

Hours after the deadline, while the Cavs were celebrating what they considered a trade deadline victory, the Houston Rockets played against the Los Angeles Lakers. Despite not having a prototypical center on the roster, no one over 6-foot-7 who played in that game, the Rockets won...

The Cavs have decided to go a different route. They have loaded up in the frontcourt, made financial commitments to Love, Nance and could do the same with Drummond this summer...The Cavs also think Love and Nance, because of their shooting ability, and some of the younger guards, give them the complementary pieces to bring out Drummond’s best. They think he will help mitigate some of their obvious deficiencies -- rim protection, points in the paint, length, athleticism, deflections, rebounding.


They only got eight games to evaluate him this year but will have (hopefully) 8-10 times that many to evaluate him this year and see if he can fit with what they are building or whether they're better with him on the bench.
 

Pioneer10

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"Dellevedova had the highest +/- of any player on the team last year other than Zizic and Henson (very small samples). With Delly on the floor the Cavs outscored their opponents by 8.4 points per 100 possessions. He makes the players around him better through his intelligence and good decision making. And this was a season where his 3-point shot wasn't dropping because he was working on a new stroke. He missed a lot of wide open threes he was making in previous years. His 3-point percentage was 23.1%, down from a career average of 36.8%."

So the plus/minus numbers are implying that Dellavedova was the best player on the team? Call me skeptical. Again, I have to point out that while advanced stats are useful, they should be used in conjunction with common sense.
The plus/minus states that the Cavs do better when he's on the floor significantly. It's not like Delly's the best player (you don't need common sense you can just look at his box score metrics): what he does bring is a skillset that no one on the team and is important for teams to outplay the opponent. He's the only experienced PG and he's a hard worker on defense: those are two things the Cavs lack. You can have a Ferrari but it's pretty useless with a first time driver is one way to think about it.
 

Murph

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The plus/minus states that the Cavs do better when he's on the floor significantly. It's not like Delly's the best player (you don't need common sense you can just look at his box score metrics): what he does bring is a skillset that no one on the team and is important for teams to outplay the opponent. He's the only experienced PG and he's a hard worker on defense: those are two things the Cavs lack. You can have a Ferrari but it's pretty useless with a first time driver is one way to think about it.
Sigh. Isn't there a Dellavedova thread somewhere on this forum?
 

Murph

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Or we could just keep posting about some undrafted bench warmer who’s scored 6 ppg for his career while shooting 41%, and who will very likely be gone next season. I never get tired of those guys.
 

daddywags

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So, by what date does he have to decide on his option? Or hasn't that been determined yet?
 

The Human Q-Tip

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Or we could just keep posting about some undrafted bench warmer who’s scored 6 ppg for his career while shooting 41%, and who will very likely be gone next season. I never get tired of those guys.
This shouldn't be hard. Building a team is as much about building chemistry and culture as it is raw talent. It's why Jose Calderon was more valuable in the 2017-18 season than his raw stats would indicate. Those are the kind of guys who can come in and settle things down when they are getting out of hand, get guys who may be out of sorts into their proper defensive rotations, back into running their plays correctly, etc... They don't score a lot, or make a lot of great plays. But they are great at coming in and making the right plays, and making the other guys play better.
 

Murph

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Jose Calderon isn’t going to be on next year’s roster either.
 

ansatsusha80

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This shouldn't be hard. Building a team is as much about building chemistry and culture as it is raw talent. It's why Jose Calderon was more valuable in the 2017-18 season than his raw stats would indicate. Those are the kind of guys who can come in and settle things down when they are getting out of hand, get guys who may be out of sorts into their proper defensive rotations, back into running their plays correctly, etc... They don't score a lot, or make a lot of great plays. But they are great at coming in and making the right plays, and making the other guys play better.

I don't care what anyone says,I've always thought the Cavs should have gave Calderon more playing time. The offense was moving with him in the game.
 

Murph

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By the end of his career, Calderon was an insanely bad defender. He was never a good defender to begin with, but by the end his defense was non-existent.


You know who else has a shockingly poor defensive rating?...Dellavedova. I was always under the impression that he was a defensive specialist, but not according to the advanced stats.

The Cavs need to fill his roster spot with someone cheaper, younger and with potential.


And in fact, I think Altman has done an excellent job of finding those guys. Bell, McKinnie and Wade all fit that description to one extent or another.
 
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I looked at the results of the last 13 games of the season after Drummond arrived. First - the wins....

1. Atlanta 127-105. The Cavs were +0 with Drummond on the floor. Off the floor they were +22.

2. Washington 113-108. AD committed 7 turnovers and the Cavs were -4 when he was on the floor, +9 when he was off.

3. Miami 125-119 (OT). -15 in 24 minutes with AD on the floor, +21 in 29 minutes with him off. Jimmy Butler did not play for Miami so let's not get too excited about this win.

4. Philly 108-94. AD did not play. Joel Embiid left with an injury after eight minutes.

5. Denver 104-102. AD did not play due to a calf strain.

6. San Antonio 132-129 (OT). AD had 28 pts, 17 rebounds, and 3 blocks with a +18 in 33 minutes. This was the only Cavs win that he was in the positive, but it shows what a force he can be if used correctly. He dominated Spurs center Trey Lyles who was a -12.

Losses...

1. Clippers 92-133. AD's first game. He was a -22 in the worst Cavs home loss in franchise history.

2. Miami 105-124. AD was -25; the Cavs were +6 with him on the bench.

3. New Orleans 104-116. Drummond was out with the calf injury.

4. Indy 104-113. AD had a big game with 27/13/4 and 4 steals but was a -18. With him on the bench the Cavs were +9.

5. Utah 113-126. AD, Garland, and TT were out with injuries.

6. Boston 106-112. AD, Garland and TT were out but the Cavs still were competitive.

7. Chicago 103-108. AD was a -4 in 35 minutes with 6 turnovers and 5 fouls. This was the Cavs' last game. They probably win if AD doesn't turn the ball over six times, but the real problem was the small forwards. Cedi was -13 in 35 minutes and McKinnie was -14 in 23 minutes. TT and Garland were out.

Overall, Drummond was awesome in the OT win over San Antonio but was not a factor or was actually a small negative in the other three wins he played in. The win over the Spurs was the second to last game of the year so maybe it took a few games for Bickerstaff to figure out how to best utilize Dre. Or maybe he just matched up well against SA.

OTOH, in the next game (and last of the season) he had 21 points and 7 boards against Chicago but committed six turnovers in a five-point loss.

It would be a mistake to say that once we got Drummond we started winning 50% of the time. First, he only contributed positively to one win. Secondly, we got a couple of lucky wins when Jimmy Butler skipped the game and when Imbiid went out in the first quarter.

The Cavs definitely played better at the end, winning 6 of their last 12 despite injuries to TT and Garland - both starters. This year if Bickerstaff can figure out how to use Drummond effectively in addition to getting two first round picks (Windler and the #5) and improved play from Garland, Sexton, and Porter this team will be fun to watch.

Unfortunately, we know Dre can have a 27/13/4 game and we can still be -18 with him on the floor and lose by 9. Bickerstaff needs to figure out how to use this major talent while still outscoring the other team.

For starters he can reduce his turnovers. Guys like him should not handle the ball that much. One dribble, two at the max and put up the shot or kick it out to an open shooter. Dre spends too much time trying to back down his man and gets stripped by a guard or forward.
 
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cabs

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It’s really simple. On defense he needs to focus on rebounding and protecting the rim. On offense he just needs to set good screens and roll hard to the rim. He could be a really handy player if he just focuses on that stuff and cuts the dribbling/long jumpers out
 
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