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Muffinalt

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I really like Robert Williams. He's a 72% shooter who is averaging 1.2 blocks in 11 minutes for his two-year career. That's 3.6 blocks, 11 points, and 10 boards per 33 minutes.

I'd trade Drummond for Hayward and Williams. I'm not crazy about the #14 in the weakest draft in seven years, especially when we'll already have two rookies in Windler and the #5 pick.

The advantage for the Cavs is after this year they'll have Williams, who will make $2 million this year and the Cavs would control him for four more years. The attraction for the Celtics is they have little use for Heyward (he only played in 5 of their 17 playoff games) but Drummond would be a big upgrade. With him and Theis they wouldn't need Williams.

With more playing time than he got in Boston Williams could develop into a pretty nice Tristan Thompson type player. Except he is a much, much better shot blocker than Thompson (0.9 blocks in 30 minutes last year).

Timelord would be really interesting. One of the most athletic guys in the whole league. But I'm not sure he'd be the 14th pick in this draft, he has next to no passing as a big, pretty one dimensional. It's close though, but I think I prefer the 14th pick. Weak draft but plenty of very solid role players in the mid round imo. It's Saddiq Bey, Josh Green territory. Finding a player who brings what Timelord brings, I think that can be done in the 2md round or FA, or even Bell pretty much is that.
 

Muffinalt

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I like Drummond and he is easily one of the most talented guys on the team. His size and athleticism is undeniable. He raised the talent level on the team. I can't disagree.

I like the idea of Drummond. He's fast, he has quick hands and feet. He's super strong. Rebounding, love it. Passing is better than I thought. Tope ten in steals and blocks is impressive.

His BBIQ is worse than I thought. He pretty obviously plays outside the offense a lot of the time. I'd say he played 3 good games in his 6 he played with the Cavs, maybe. He's immature IMO. I get Zach Randolph vibes from him(not the grizz version).

Yeah exactly. I really agree with the last part. Drummond is super talented at that size and yeah hes one of the better centers in the league based on talent.

But impact and contributing to winning basketball? Not halting your other players or the offensive schemes? Not giving severe advantages for other teams to exploit? Can he be trusted in important moments to do the right decision or will he try to dribble past guards?

Detroit pretty much have up on him because of all that. If after 8 years he's still doing those things, then it's just who he is.
 

Murph

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I don’t like how people are talking about Andre Drummond like he’s a bum. It’s like people think players can only be three things. All NBA, All Star, or a bum. Andre Drummond can ball and he’s still one of the top bigs in the league.

Cavs fans obviously have no interest in watching Drummond play in Cleveland for any length of time. After 8 game, in which the Cavs payed their best basketball in two years, they have judged Drummond to be a low IQ malcontent. They would rather the Cavs draft a center and continue on with their rebuild. I get that.

A lot of it is Drummond's fault. He should not be handling the ball or shooting 3s.

So a trade Drummond and Exum to the Celtics for Hayward's expiring contract (that's an expiring contract, so Hayward's health is irrelevant) and a 1st rounder or two.

The other added benefit is that the Cavs would likely be really bad for another year at least and get another lottery pick in 2021, maybe higher, in a better draft. This is especially true if TT bolts for LA.

Drummond gets to play for a contender, and one of the best coaches in the league. The Celtics need help getting over the top. If Giannis is dealt, the Celtics will be the odds on favorites to win the East for many years. Drummond went to HS and college in CT, so he is very likely a Celtics fan. And the Cavs can continue on with their rebuild. Everyone is happy.
 
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sailfish

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The 14th pick has to come back in a trade with Boston.

Out
Drummond
Cedi

In
Hayward
Williams
#14

Draft Okongwu at #5 and at #14 take Achiuwa, Bey or someone with high upside.
I’d do that deal. Drummond will, clearly, be playing for a payday this upcoming season. On a non-contending team, as the Cavaliers will likely be, that type of me-first attitude can quickly become toxic.

Hayward likely wouldn’t be long for Cleveland, but we can try to flip him at the 2021 trade deadline. If we trade Cedi then we likely draft a SF (Okoro?) at #5. I like Williams as a young, athletic center who has a focus on defense & rebounding.

If the Cavs trade Drummond, I’d love to find a way to trade up to get Wiseman. I’m not sure it’s going to be possible however.
 
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I don't think it's too late but he gotta understand, he won't be the first option.
Looking at these 12 seconds you can see he's working on movement without the ball and passing to the 3-point shooter. He's working on pick-and-rolls and running the baseline to get open in the corner. It looks like a drill that a stretch 4 would do. As he said in the interview, he wants to expand the things he can do while continuing to do what he's paid to do - "rebounding, defending and blocking shots.” He's trying to expand his game beyond simply being a low post player and rebounder.

"It’s pretty much the same thing I’ve been doing lately -- ball-handling, shooting the 3 and being more consistent with that, finishing around the rim, being able to make the right plays, being able to pass the ball when I get cut off or double-teamed, pass it to the corner or the wing, working on my IQ, keeping my head up when I dribble and all the other essential things that need to be done as a big man now to stay on the court.

I hope he's including free throw shooting in these workouts. But this is pretty interesting because it reminds me of the work Nance put in last off-season on his 3-point shot and the work he's doing this off-season to improve his agility and ball-handling in anticipation of playing more small forward this year. I can't wait to see a front line of Dre, Love, and Nance with some combination of Garland, Sexton, and Porter in the back court.

I also appreciated Drummond talking about helping his teammates, specifically, helping KPJ to "become the star that he is". AD does not come across as a selfish player. He didn't seem like a guy who only wants to have a good season individually so he can get paid next year. He wants to get better at passing when he doesn't have his shot. He wants to help his teammates grow. It's also great to hear he's working hard in the gym and is in good shape. The guy is only 26 and has eight years as an NBA starter. He's obviously intelligent. I wouldn't underestimate his ability to add those "essential things" to his game that he needs to fit in the modern NBA while retaining the ability he already has in spades.
 
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Check out Dre in that video getting into a low crouch and dribbling between his legs like a guard. Also pump faking and driving the baseline, then passing to the perimeter when he gets cut off. This is a whole different thing than what he's been doing for eight years. I think this is how he's always wanted to play. But what happens if Bickerstaff doesn't want him running around, handling the ball, and jacking up 3's?
 

Cavatt

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It's all about decision-making. If he can do these things in desperate situations that is fine. IF he is taking the ball out of the ball handlers hands to turn it over in the open court we have a serious problem.

Working on his passing is good. I don't know about the between the legs stuff. I really don't care if he shoots 3's at the end of the clock wide open. 3-4 a game I don't know about that.
 

ansatsusha80

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Check out Dre in that video getting into a low crouch and dribbling between his legs like a guard. Also pump faking and driving the baseline, then passing to the perimeter when he gets cut off. This is a whole different thing than what he's been doing for eight years. I think this is how he's always wanted to play. But what happens if Bickerstaff doesn't want him running around, handling the ball, and jacking up 3's?


I think him being in Detroit stunted his growth because when he made his first three with the Cavs after the game he said something like he wasn't allowed to get on the perimeter. He mainly viewed as a player that only scored in the paint in Detroit.

I don't mind him making threes but I don't want him to doing it all the time. If,he gives us anything scoring wise that's a huge plus...
 

BigZ94

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Yeah was painful to watch TT Drummond love and Nance combine for disgusting amounts of turnovers trying to play point forward last year
 

sailfish

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I think him being in Detroit stunted his growth because when he made his first three with the Cavs after the game he said something like he wasn't allowed to get on the perimeter. He mainly viewed as a player that only scored in the paint in Detroit.

I don't mind him making threes but I don't want him to doing it all the time. If,he gives us anything scoring wise that's a huge plus...
I’d make Dre a deal- if he can shoot 65% or higher from the charity stripe then he can have the green light to shoot 3’s in games. He has to show that he can make an uncontested 15’ shot before he’s allowed to launch contested 22’ shots. It’s common sense.

If Dre and his camp think he should be launching 3’s, all the while struggling to make free throws, then his A$$ needs to GO!
 

catfish

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Wasnt this guy one of the worst free throw shooters in the history of college basketball?
 

sailfish

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We all know,he's opting in....
This is a negotiating ploy- either to get an extension with the Cavaliers or, more likely, a trade to a desirable team. Drummond’s camp is trying to hold the Cavaliers’ feet to the fire.
 
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