Andre Drummond - LeBron's Robin

[BigZ94]

I think the organization thought Drummond was a long term solution but when they saw him freestyling too much and don't set screen. I think that's when the organization decided they saw enough from him.

Drummond is a good player defensively but he's horrible offensively and acts like he's the best scoring option on the team.

When,Sexton missed his first two three-point shots against the Nets. Drummond gave him like,why you're shooting the ball..Collin is the team's best scorer and you're looking at him all fucked up. It makes no sense at all..

this 100%. I don’t think I’ve seen a cavs player who makes me this angry watching him on offense since Ricky Davis.

 

[BigZ94]

I don't understand how "the NBA is a business" and loyalty pertains to the point I was trying to make. Though @Cavatt explained my thoughts better than I did.

Again to be clear I don't condone his sulky attitude and it is unfortunate that he still hasn't figured out how to be effective in the league after 7-8 years even though it seems obvious to us (and we still don't know how much of this is actually a function of JB coaching strategy). He tried to work on some things to be more effective to adapt to the modern NBA, those things aren't working out so well.

He definitely appears to be an emotional guy.

I'm just saying I see a guy who is realizing that what he is very passionate about is slipping away from him, and even though he's made millions of dollars, I can still empathize with him, the same way I would empathize with a passionate carpenter who could no longer work wood because he cut his hand off on a table saw, or a guy who is forced to retire due to injuries. And the same way I would empathize with someone in a professional "business" setting undergoing the same realizations.

idk i'm an emotional lesbian myself so whatever, but basically my stance is that even though he's a multi-million dollar athlete, people shouldn't be shitting on him as much as they are.

"Just trade the guy" is a very easy thing to say but a much more complicated thing to actually do. That's like telling a homeless person to "just get a bunch of money".

The thing is he COULD be a great player in today’s NBA. He’s incredible gifted athletically, very mobile for a guy his size and is a fantastic rim protector.

The problem is he has a massive ego and refuses to accept his role. If he played his ass off, set hard screens on and off the ball, moved the ball (not just passing when he thinks he can get an assist) understood that he’s not a great scorer, but could get his points off tip ins and put backs, and lastly just protect the paint play good D (which he does) he could be a top 5 center in the league easy and possibly be the 3rd maybe even second best player on a championship level team.

The reality is he doesn’t do what it takes to be great.

Lastly his attitude is fucking awful. He doesn’t seem happy when others on the team succeed, sulks when he doesn’t get his shots, gives other (better offensive) players looks when they miss shots. Disrupts the flow of the offense demanding post touches while shooting 45% from the field. As I mentioned before doesn’t move the ball unless it’s for an assist.

How can anybody feel sorry for or root for a player who obviously is only playing for himself and not for the team?

Hes earned every last bit of shit talk he’s receiving on these forums. And it may seem like I’m hating on this guy excessively over my last few posts but watching this guy play legit gives me anxiety and makes me want to chuck my remote at the TV every time I see a spin move into 2 defenders turnover, flop on the floor and complain to the refs while the other team gets an easy transition bucket.

 

[BigZ94]

Oh please. The NBA is a business. It’s not as if the Cavs have shown any shred of loyalty toward Drummond either.

They went out and got another center as soon as the opportunity arose, even though Drummond was playing his ass off and carrying the team through all those injuries.

Just trade the guy.

If Drummond played winning basketball they would have loved to keep him. You don’t show loyalty to players who play for themselves.

I think the cavs have been one of the better teams when it comes to loyalty to players look at the contract they gave love, or bringing back guys like Delly, over paying guys from our championship team such as TT and JR.

 

[Murph]

If Drummond played winning basketball they would have loved to keep him. You don’t show loyalty to players who play for themselves.

I think the cavs have been one of the better teams when it comes to loyalty to players look at the contract they gave love, or bringing back guys like Delly, over paying guys from our championship team such as TT and JR.

Nonsense. The Cavs saw a better deal and took advantage of it. Allen is younger, cheaper and has a higher upside at this point.

This really has nothing to do with Drummond at all. Drummond could not have done more or played harder or said anything more constructive. The NBA is a business. We all get that. There is no loyalty.

Lebron is from the Cleveland area, but he lit out to Miami and LA because it was good for him and his career.

Trade the guy. Let the Cavs build their team around a ball dominant 6’1 shooting guard with a pigtail. Who cares?

 

[Murph]

I don't understand how "the NBA is a business" and loyalty pertains to the point I was trying to make. Though @Cavatt explained my thoughts better than I did.

Again to be clear I don't condone his sulky attitude and it is unfortunate that he still hasn't figured out how to be effective in the league after 7-8 years even though it seems obvious to us (and we still don't know how much of this is actually a function of JB coaching strategy). He tried to work on some things to be more effective to adapt to the modern NBA, those things aren't working out so well.

He definitely appears to be an emotional guy.

I'm just saying I see a guy who is realizing that what he is very passionate about is slipping away from him, and even though he's made millions of dollars, I can still empathize with him, the same way I would empathize with a passionate carpenter who could no longer work wood because he cut his hand off on a table saw, or a guy who is forced to retire due to injuries. And the same way I would empathize with someone in a professional "business" setting undergoing the same realizations.

idk i'm an emotional lesbian myself so whatever, but basically my stance is that even though he's a multi-million dollar athlete, people shouldn't be shitting on him as much as they are.

"Just trade the guy" is a very easy thing to say but a much more complicated thing to actually do. That's like telling a homeless person to "just get a bunch of money".

Trading Drummond is not like telling a homeless person to just get a bag of money. Koby Altman is perfectly capable of engineer a trade for Drummond. Drummond’s on an expiring contract. There is little or no risk in acquiring Drummond at this point.

And your gender and sexual orientation are relevant how?

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Lol Murph, some of your posts make it seem like you actually think Altman reads the forum and will actually act on trading Drummond just by reading through your posts.

 

[BigZ94]

Nonsense. The Cavs saw a better deal and took advantage of it. Allen is younger, cheaper and has a higher upside at this point.

This really has nothing to do with Drummond at all. Drummond could not have done more or played harder or said anything more constructive. The NBA is a business. We all get that. There is no loyalty.

Lebron is from the Cleveland area, but he lit out to Miami and LA because it was good for him and his career.

Trade the guy. Let the Cavs build their team around a ball dominant 6’1 shooting guard with a pigtail. Who cares?

So you think Drummonds terrible inefficiency, constant boneheaded selfish plays and contribution to us having the worst offense in the league had nothing to do with the move? Could not have played harder? I think we’re watching different basketball games...

I think you overestimate how easy it would be to trade Drummond considering his contract...

Ok so lebron left the Cavs that means there’s no loyalty in the NBA? That’s one example and a lot of the time you are right there isn’t loyalty but from time to time there is, look at Dirk getting large contracts at the end of his career, us paying Love, Spurs dynasty. To say there is absolutely no loyalty is nonsense.

and why on earth should the Cavs be loyal to Drummond anyways? What has he done to earn it?

I don’t even know how to respond to your last statement...

 

[BigZ94]

Nonsense. The Cavs saw a better deal and took advantage of it. Allen is younger, cheaper and has a higher upside at this point.

This really has nothing to do with Drummond at all. Drummond could not have done more or played harder or said anything more constructive. The NBA is a business. We all get that. There is no loyalty.

Lebron is from the Cleveland area, but he lit out to Miami and LA because it was good for him and his career.

Trade the guy. Let the Cavs build their team around a ball dominant 6’1 shooting guard with a pigtail. Who cares?

So you think Drummonds terrible inefficiency, constant boneheaded selfish plays and contribution to us having the worst offense in the league had nothing to do with the move? Could not have played harder? I think we’re watching different basketball games...

Ok so lebron left the Cavs that means there’s no loyalty in the NBA? That’s one example and a lot of the time you are right there isn’t loyalty but from time to time there is, look at Dirk getting large contracts at the end of his career, us paying Love, Spurs dynasty. To say their is absolutely no loyalty is nonsense.

and why on earth should the Cavs be loyal to Drummond anyways? What has he done to earn it?

I don’t even know how to respond to your last statement...

Actually considering Drummonds dislike of Sexton, you have Drummond as your profile picture, and seem to endlessly defend him, now talking about loyalty after the trade which obviously made us better and of which 99% of fans seem excited about. Are you prehaps Drummond or maybe his agent?

 

[cavsLTU]

Murph I just dont understand how can you be so blind to all the criticism that Drummond receives in here from other posters.

Do you really think that the way Drummond plays is the best for the team and for him long term? Do you actually believe that there is a team in NBA that will allow his center not to set decent screens, shoot 15-20 times per game with 45% FG and act upset when a player who is shooting 50% from the three point line!!! takes a shot ?

There is a reason why Drummond was traded for peanuts. You can blame the Cavs, Altman or Sexton as much as you want but they are not the problem.

 

[Kouki]

Trading Drummond is not like telling a homeless person to just get a bag of money. Koby Altman is perfectly capable of engineer a trade for Drummond. Drummond’s on an expiring contract. There is little or no risk in acquiring Drummond at this point.

And your gender and sexual orientation are relevant how?

"Emotional lesbian" was a joke to bring some lightheartedness to the discussion.

I don't think you are thinking through the trade situation very much, or don't know how trades work in the NBA.

1. The trade would have to match salary so we need to bring back just as much money as we send out. Not many teams have pieces they are looking to trade that add up to $28m.
2. Like you said, Andre Drummond is an expiring contract, so teams aren't likely to give up assets to acquire him when they could on the free market in the off season.
3. Other teams aren't stupid, they have seen Drummond on the Pistons and now on the Cavs. Like...this should be a pretty simple point. Yall want to trade him so bad what makes you think anyone wants him?
4. Since the salaries are difficult to match, there is a very good chance that we would have to take back salary that extends past this season.
5. Further limiting the situation is the importance of culture, Koby will want to make sure the incoming players fit our team culturally so they don't disrupt, or add to, what we are trying to do here.

Yes Koby seems to be pretty adept at trades and has surprised us, but he is confined by trading rules, and other teams being not stupid (mostly).

NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

NBA trade machine, make player trades

www.espn.com

Give it a go.

 

[CavsFan07]

Actually considering Drummonds dislike of Sexton, you have Drummond as your profile picture, and seem to endlessly defend him, now talking about loyalty after the trade which obviously made us better and of which 99% of fans seem excited about. Are you prehaps Drummond or maybe his agent?

And not to mention literally 95% of his posts in this forum have been on the Drummond thread lol..

Relative perhaps?

 

[CavsFan07]

And for what it's worth I don't totally disagree with EVERY thing that Murph is saying.... but there's obvious glaring holes in some of his arguments.

Drummond can fill up the stat sheet and when engaged can be a pretty daggon good defender. However, his inability (or refusal) to set off ball screens is pretty alarming for a guy with such a massive body.

Like most players in the NBA they want the ball in their hands... The problem here being that post players prefer it on the block --- Drummond prefers it at the high post where he can try to take someone off the bounce.

There are times Drummond can definitely be a 'black hole' on offense, which then turns into our guys standing around once he catches it because they know what's coming.


End of the day, I appreciate all he's did for the Cavs and I hope the Cavs find a trade partner that better suits Drummond AND brings back a respectable haul for us. I think it'll happen. Allen is obviously our center for the future (and should be) and Drummond will have the opportunity to be a more centralized piece of a team on his next contract.

 

[Cavatt]

Lol Murph, some of your posts make it seem like you actually think Altman reads the forum and will actually act on trading Drummond just by reading through your posts.

It worked when I lobbied for Okoro!

 

[avs2000]

And for what it's worth I don't totally disagree with EVERY thing that Murph is saying.... but there's obvious glaring holes in some of his arguments.

Drummond can fill up the stat sheet and when engaged can be a pretty daggon good defender. However, his inability (or refusal) to set off ball screens is pretty alarming for a guy with such a massive body.

Like most players in the NBA they want the ball in their hands... The problem here being that post players prefer it on the block --- Drummond prefers it at the high post where he can try to take someone off the bounce.

There are times Drummond can definitely be a 'black hole' on offense, which then turns into our guys standing around once he catches it because they know what's coming.


End of the day, I appreciate all he's did for the Cavs and I hope the Cavs find a trade partner that better suits Drummond AND brings back a respectable haul for us. I think it'll happen. Allen is obviously our center for the future (and should be) and Drummond will have the opportunity to be a more centralized piece of a team on his next contract.

I do not think we will get a “haul” for Drummond. I do not want to take back any more contract that also doesn’t expire end of year

 

[Kouki]

It worked when I lobbied for Okoro!

It worked when I made that "who should we draft poll" and Obi Toppin was...ah...quite an outlier on the "do not draft" side