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Rich

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“Coach of a tanking team in the past has a bad W/L record”.

You did it Rich. You got me. I’m now convinced JBB is the worst coach in the NBA.

You ever wonder why a franchise that was extremely well run at the time like Houston didn't keep him on, even after having a winning record in that 1 season?

Or why Memphis fired him after 2 seasons?

And Memphis wasn't tanking. Conley and Gasol were on that team. They traded Gasol at the deadline because they were out of it.

What has he done to earn this type of stalwart defense?

This is confusing to me that a coach with a pretty Or track record has this many vocal supporters.

Memphis, meanwhile traded their best player after firing JBB and then got a lot better with the next coach the following season with an extremely young roster led by a rookie.

Houston got a lot better the following season, too.


I'll lay off of JBB. In 20 games, we'll revisit what everyone thinks of him.

So game 39.

EDIT: Houstons record the season before JBB. 56-26

After 57-27.

With JBB? 37-34. And Harden didn't miss one damn game.

And led the league in total minutes....shocking I know.
 
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Dr. Claw

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“Coach of a tanking team in the past has a bad W/L record”.

You did it Rich. You got me. I’m now convinced JBB is the worst coach in the NBA.
lol. Man. I'd rather have JBB than most of these other people given opportunities to head coach the NBA (especially the likes of Luke Walton). Frankly, the only coach I'd trade him for is Nate McMillan, who always improves the teams he coaches.
 

Rich

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lol. Man. I'd rather have JBB than most of these other people given opportunities to head coach the NBA (especially the likes of Luke Walton). Frankly, the only coach I'd trade him for is Nate McMillan, who always improves the teams he coaches.

Memphis immediately got better with a rookie coach after firing him.

And they were less talented than the team JBB had. Rookie Morant was 100% not better than Conley Jr.
 

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John Blair Bickerstaff has been head coach of 3 teams and has a career record of 119 and 197 for a winning percentage of 37%.

But ok.

Damn - you got to this point this quickly?

It's almost like the blame it all on the coach schtick is a bad one.
 

Coyote

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You ever wonder why a franchise that was extremely well run at the time like Houston didn't keep him on, even after having a winning record in that 1 season?

Or why Memphis fired him after 2 seasons?

And Memphis wasn't tanking. Conley and Gasol were on that team. They traded Gasol at the deadline because they were out of it.

What has he done to earn this type of stalwart defense?

This is confusing to me that a coach with a pretty Or track record has this many vocal supporters.

Memphis, meanwhile traded their best player after firing JBB and then got a lot better with the next coach the following season with an extremely young roster led by a rookie.

Houston got a lot better the following season, too.


I'll lay off of JBB. In 20 games, we'll revisit what everyone thinks of him.

So game 39.

I believe his full year with Memphis was the one where they set a record for number of players signed, something like 25, 26. Maybe it was the interim year.

But yes, please, go ahead and use that as a reliable measure of JBB's coaching, sure.
 

BimboColesHair

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You ever wonder why a franchise that was extremely well run at the time like Houston didn't keep him on, even after having a winning record in that 1 season?

Or why Memphis fired him after 2 seasons?

And Memphis wasn't tanking. Conley and Gasol were on that team. They traded Gasol at the deadline because they were out of it.

What has he done to earn this type of stalwart defense?

This is confusing to me that a coach with a pretty Or track record has this many vocal supporters.

See, this is the difference between you and me Rich.

You’re viewing this as a black and white issue. JBB is not a good coach, that is your outlook on him. Won’t change, you don’t care. Why no one likes talking with you, no room for movement in the conversation.

I have never said JBB is a good coach. In fact, you can probably go find a post from me a few weeks ago saying just that and that I think he’s an average coach who gets way more hate than he deserves.

I’m in that gray area. I want to see if this guy learns as the team as a whole learns for a number of reasons.

Reason 1: this is the most important one for me. NBA history is littered with failed coaches who were given young rosters filled with highly drafted players that failed because they couldn’t keep the attention and minds of a young group, often times to the detriment of the long term development of the players. JBB has clearly proven he has this teams entire focus and attention and that they are fully in tune with him. That’s rare to find with a young group in the NBA. I’m not about giving that up, not yet. It stagnates down the line or he loses the group, then we’ll talk. Until then, hell no, cause this is, IMO, the best way to grow a good young team.

Reason 2: I want Mobley being fed every opportunity he can get to expand and grow his game with the expectation of building an entire franchise around him and JBB has already proven to me he will put him in that situation. He’s putting a lot of guys in that situation, asking them or encouraging them to do more, provide more, expand their games. I don’t think it’s a coincidence Ricky Rubio is having a career year at age 31.

Reason 3: you have to take steps forward as an organization when you’re getting deeper and deeper into a rebuild. This team is taking a huge step forward to this point this year. Barring something wild happening and the team forgetting how to play basketball, this group is about to make a huge leap in win total. That in itself is an encouraging sign where most teams won’t can a coach.

Reason 4: I don’t think he is done growing or learning as a coach, and what he provides culturally to the locker room with a young group makes it so I am okay with giving it some time to see if he can fine tune his offense, his rotations, his in game feel, and yes, his clock management as he himself gets more and more experience in close games with the team trying to win.

It’s not a black and white thing with me. He’s not a good coach, he’s not a bad coach, but goddamn do I think it would be bad if they moved on from him after this season with how this young group responds to him. Good way to lose a bunch of young players minds or piss some of them off.

Young NBA teams are fickle, the history of the league proves that time and time again. I don’t want to fuck with that right now when we have a guy who is able to reach these kids.
 
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Rich

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I believe his full year with Memphis was the one where they set a record for number of players signed, something like 25, 26. Maybe it was the interim year.

But yes, please, go ahead and use that as a reliable measure of JBB's coaching, sure.

Memphis did. They fired him.

Has he just never been given a fair shot?


Had prime James Harden leading the league in minutes and managed a .500 record.

I mean....just about anyone else could have coached a James Harden to 50 wins.

Conley and Gasol were on that team. Conley played over 70 games that year and so did Gasol.

They went like 2-15 in January.


When is it fair to judge his record?


He's had damn good players to coach prior and has managed to show very little..
 

Rich

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There's a reason other franchises who, let's be honest, are better run than this one (or were in Houstons case) saw this guy for a short amount of time and thought "nah. That's enough. We don't need to see year 3."


It's funny. I'm considered negative but I think I probably have the most positive longterm outlook on the board.

I think Mobley is gonna be so good that by next season just about anyone could get this team to a winning record.

So I worry that whoever this franchise has as a coach when we make the playoffs for the first time w/o LeBron in forever will be given a massive extension and a TON of leeway.


And I'm very worried about JBB being the Mike Brown to Mobley and wasting a lot of his time here.

That's how good I think Mobley is gonna be.

The window to really, really mold this team is shorter than people think.
 

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Memphis did. They fired him.

Has he just never been given a fair shot?


Had prime James Harden leading the league in minutes and managed a .500 record.

I mean....just about anyone else could have coached a James Harden to 50 wins.

Conley and Gasol were on that team. Conley played over 70 games that year and so did Gasol.

They went like 2-15 in January.


When is it fair to judge his record?


He's had damn good players to coach prior and has managed to show very little..

I don't know much about his stint in Houston as interim, but I think you are vastly overestimating Memphis' roster when he was coach. Valucianus was hurt that year. Gasol was on the decline. They may not have been tanking, but they were in transition and knew it.

It's just a weird thing to rely on for your argument, but be my guest.
 

Rich

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See, this is the difference between you and me Rich.

You’re viewing this as a black and white issue. JBB is not a good coach, that is your outlook on him. Won’t change, you don’t care. Why no one likes talking with you, no room for movement in the conversation.

I have never said JBB is a good coach. In fact, you can probably go find a post from me a few weeks ago saying just that and that I think he’s an average coach who gets way more hate than he deserves.

I’m in that gray area. I want to see if this guy learns as the team as a whole learns for a number of reasons.

Reason 1: this is the most important one for me. NBA history is littered with failed coaches who were given young rosters filled with highly drafted players that failed because they couldn’t keep the attention and minds of a young group, often times to the detriment of the long term development of the players. JBB has clearly proven he has this teams entire focus and attention and that they are fully in tune with him. That’s rare to find with a young group in the NBA. I’m not about giving that up, not yet. It stagnates down the line or he loses the group, then we’ll talk. Until then, hell no, cause this is, IMO, the best way to grow a good young team.

Reason 2: I want Mobley being fed every opportunity he can get to expand and grow his game with the expectation of building an entire franchise around him and JBB has already proven to me he will put him in that situation. He’s putting a lot of guys in that situation, asking them or encouraging them to do more, provide more, expand their games. I don’t think it’s a coincidence Ricky Rubio is having a career year at age 31.

Reason 3: you have to take steps forward as an organization when you’re getting deeper and deeper into a rebuild. This team is taking a huge step forward to this point this year. Barring something wild happening and the team forgetting how to play basketball, this group is about to make a huge leap in win total. That in itself is an encouraging sign where most teams won’t can a coach.

Reason 4: I don’t think he is done growing or learning as a coach, and what he provides culturally to the locker room with a young group makes it so I am okay with giving it some time to see if he can fine tune his offense, his rotations, his in game feel, and yes, his clock management as he himself gets more and more experience in close games with the team trying to win.

It’s not a black and white thing with me. He’s not a good coach, he’s not a bad coach, but goddamn do I think it would be bad if they moved on from him after this season with how this young group responds to him. Good way to lose a bunch of young players minds or piss some of them off.

Young NBA teams are fickle, the history of the league proves that time and time again. I don’t want to fuck with that right now when we have a guy who is able to reach these kids.

Nonsense I don't change my opinion with new info.

Dom literally accused me the other day of always changing my opinion.

Plenty of players I've changed my mind on.

Just not sure why JBB should be one of those guys at this point.

To this point t in his career, he hasn't been good.
 

Rich

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I don't know much about his stint in Houston as interim, but I think you are vastly overestimating Memphis' roster when he was coach. Valucianus was hurt that year. Gasol was on the decline. They may not have been tanking, but they were in transition and knew it.

It's just a weird thing to rely on for your argument, but be my guest.

Brother, the very next year Memphis went 34-39 and improved their winning percentage drastically AFTER trading their best player.


And again it begs the question WHY didn't Memphis keep him? They've consistently won in a small market for a lot of years. They generally know what they're doing.


But OK we shall use absolutely none of JBBs prior coaching record against him I guess?

Positive though that if his prior stops had shown tons of promise people would be using it for him though.
 

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The question is: who's better right now, that's available?
The Cavs have had how many coaches since LeBron left? Lue, Drew (interim), Beilein (disaster), and JBB.

Out of those, only JBB has really provided a positive impact on this team. I hear the criticisms, and the concern of making sure an all-time talent gets proper guidance.

I can't remember who the Bucks coach was before Budenholzer, but Budenholzer got there late in the game. That might be the thing that happens to the Cavs.
 

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Nonsense I don't change my opinion with new info.

Dom literally accused me the other day of always changing my opinion.

Plenty of players I've changed my mind on.

Just not sure why JBB should be one of those guys at this point.

To this point t in his career, he hasn't been good.

And I’m not saying he has been good throughout his career.

I think you’re reading but not digesting what I’m saying.

You say you don’t want the next Mike Brown with LeBron and can see JBB like that with Mobley, I get that. No one wants that.

But, again this is the biggest reason I’m a fan of him currently, do you also think it probably wouldn’t be the best idea in the world to get rid of a coach that all the young players, including Mobley, have bought into?

You can’t see why some of us think that may be a disaster waiting to happen?

Coaching hires are not a guarantee, especially with a fucking Dan Gilbert franchise.
 

Rich

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The question is: who's better right now, that's available?
The Cavs have had how many coaches since LeBron left? Lue, Drew (interim), Beilein (disaster), and JBB.

Out of those, only JBB has really provided a positive impact on this team. I hear the criticisms, and the concern of making sure an all-time talent gets proper guidance.

I can't remember who the Bucks coach was before Budenholzer, but Budenholzer got there late in the game. That might be the thing that happens to the Cavs.

Jason Kidd.

But rookie Mobley is way better than rookie Giannis.

This team will be ready to seriously win way sooner than Milwaukee was.

That's why I think outlook and timeline has to change.

Perhaps Im Way too high on Mobley? I dunno.
 

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