• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

Isaac 3 & D Okoro - A Two Way Playing Basketball Savant

Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Who is Isaac Okoro's Favorite Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Emperor?

  • Arcadius (if one does not count Constantine as first)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Justinian the Great

    Votes: 8 14.3%
  • Zeno

    Votes: 2 3.6%
  • Heraclius

    Votes: 3 5.4%
  • Basil II, the Bulgar Slayer

    Votes: 6 10.7%
  • Nikephoros II Phokas, the Pale Death of the Saracens

    Votes: 7 12.5%
  • Alexios I Komnenos

    Votes: 4 7.1%
  • John II, the Beautiful Komnenos

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Constantine XI

    Votes: 4 7.1%
  • Jim I Chones, the Magnificent

    Votes: 26 46.4%

  • Total voters
    56
Agreed but we should be projecting a few years out not this coming season. This team isn't sniffing a deep playoff run for a few more seasons and that's only if we hit on next pick and the core improves etc

Ok, but who are you sure of that is going to be better than him? You also have to remember that Manu was a 2nd round pick. That humbles you. How has Sexton been Humbled? He was doubted, but was a high pick AND has outperformed that pick. HE has consistently improved. The team just has no leverage in the situation.
 
Are we sure we can't sell Collin on being a Manu type? Who cares who starts. It's the finishing the game that matters. Let him run hog wild on bench units and close with okoro + sexton/garland depending on matchup. Unfortunately I don't think our current coach is smart enough to pull this off...

Manu was a very late second round draft pick who didn't even come over here to play ball until he was 25. He never hit 20 ppg his entire career, and didn't move to the bench full-time until he was 34 years old. He averaged less than $8M/year, and only had 5 years where he earned in double digits.


Collin is a lottery pick, only 22 years old, just averaged 24.5 ppg, and is over 20 ppg for his career already. There is absolutely no way he'd accept the same role Manu was put in at 34 years old, and for equivalent money. He's a good kid so he'd probably play hard in whatever role you put him in as long as he was on the team. But he would have absolutely no reason to sign an extension for significantly under his market value, and to be a backup. So you could have him come off the bench next year if that's what you really wanted...but then he's gone.
 
For me, that's the bottom line. All the basketball theory in the world about how Sexton's best fit is as a guy coming off the bench isn't going to matter if he isn't willing to accept that role (and the lower salary that accompanies it) at this point in his career. I'd be shocked if he would, not should he. Some team with a taller playmaker is going to be all over him to start, and rightfully so.

Sixers are an ideal fit except they don't have anything of sufficient value to offer.
Which is why drafting a playmaking wing like Barnes or Cunningham seems like the move
 
Which is why drafting a playmaking wing like Barnes or Cunningham seems like the move

I agree. But then, if one of those guys becomes your primary ballhandler/PG, then what happens to Garland?
 
Manu wasn't the best player on his team. There were 2 guys better and a better defending 3 and D guy starting above him. I think you need at least 2 guys that are clearly better than him, and there is no way you have that before his extension kicks in.

I think Manu wanted to also win Sixth man of the year which played into it. Once he won it, he might have actually preferred to come off the bench so he qualified for it and could be in the running again.

I also think the Cavs have made starting spots tied to minutes and a hierarchy of how the organization values the player. It's part of the culture now like it or not. If they had all the young guys start off on the bench and moving in and out of the starting unit, I think it would be way less of a deal to ask Sexton or any of the starters to come off the bench.
 
I agree. But then, if one of those guys becomes your primary ballhandler/PG, then what happens to Garland?
Amps the need Garland has to prove he can do like Sexton has, and adapt to roster changes.
But I think he might prove more versatile as a scorer as a secondary bh anyway
 
I don't watch college basketball, so this is an honest question not a rhetorical one.

Are any of those three guys truly capable of breaking down a defense off the dribble? From what I've seen, Garland doesn't seem to have that level of aggression, and Okoro isn't that good a ballhandler. So...is Cunningham that guy?

Cunningham is not a freaky athlete with an elite first step, but he's shown enough to make me believe he can handle the ball and run the pick and roll very well to break down a defense.

I picture him evolving his ability to navigate an offense without top end athleticism similar to Luka. Not that I think he's the next Luka, but that he can break down a defense more with his skill and smarts and reads than any sort of freakish athleticism in that same style. Example:


To answer your question, I wouldn't draft Cade if I'm specifically looking for a guy who can iso from the top of the key and explode to the basket when I need a bucket or a foul. I think he's a different type of player than that...but I do hope in a few years Okoro has harnessed some of that ability.

I don't believe Cade needs to be a full-time PG. I think he could be excellent splitting offensive-initiation duties with Garland. Combine that with Okoro's surprisingly adequate ability operating as a pick and roll ball handler toward season's end and Garland/Cunningham both projecting as elite catch and shoot guys, I think that sort of perimeter group could be dynamic and versatile.

I just realized this isn't the draft thread but this is loosely related to how I can picture that trio co-existing.
 
Look at the Bucks too. When Brooklyn walls off Giannis' path to the rim, no one can break the defense. Jrue I am especially upset with. He can't get by anyone, and they just stick one guy on him. His offensive issues unfortunately perfectly complement Middleton and Giannis' offensive limitations making it so their offense doesn't work.

It's really what I am worried about with Garland. His outside shot isn't breaking the defense yet, while Sexton sees the 4th most double teams in the league. You can wish Sexton was the 6th man all you want, but no one else on the team is doing that.

Okoro is the only other guy I can see developing that kind of attention right now. His first step and finishing means it is possible. Garland needs to really kill with his off the dribble 3 for him to be that player.

He's a good passer and is developing as a floor general, but he can't break the defense with his passing, first step, or shot yet. I am not saying he can't develop that, but it isn't there today. That is Sexton's best skill. It isn't actually his scoring. He can upend the defense. It's also the reason people get upset with him, because he could take more advantage of it and he hasn't fully exploited it yet.

edit: Weepin Willow here is making my same point about Collin's decisionmaking/playmaking. Doesn't matter to me yet because he is making better decisions, and no one else has show they can bend the defense like that. Until they do we need Collin

Really like your analysis of Sexton. And I agree with an earlier post of yours that his feel and decision making/passing is steadily improving to a point imo that makes it not far off where he can be a decent playmaker in the - break down the defense and make the pass - way.

I liked the Sexton and Okoro pairing a lot late last season. They both need improvement for that to work as of now, but both are showing enough promise and we know very well their work ethic and tendency to improve is top tier. It's a combo is be comfortable betting on to be honest (although just to be fair I'm a sucker for character guys).

Actually those two with Wade showed some really good chemistry imo the last few games. I get the impression Sexton actually passes to Okoro more willingly.
 
Look at the Bucks too. When Brooklyn walls off Giannis' path to the rim, no one can break the defense. Jrue I am especially upset with. He can't get by anyone, and they just stick one guy on him. His offensive issues unfortunately perfectly complement Middleton and Giannis' offensive limitations making it so their offense doesn't work.

It's really what I am worried about with Garland. His outside shot isn't breaking the defense yet, while Sexton sees the 4th most double teams in the league. You can wish Sexton was the 6th man all you want, but no one else on the team is doing that.

Okoro is the only other guy I can see developing that kind of attention right now. His first step and finishing means it is possible. Garland needs to really kill with his off the dribble 3 for him to be that player.

He's a good passer and is developing as a floor general, but he can't break the defense with his passing, first step, or shot yet. I am not saying he can't develop that, but it isn't there today. That is Sexton's best skill. It isn't actually his scoring. He can upend the defense. It's also the reason people get upset with him, because he could take more advantage of it and he hasn't fully exploited it yet.

edit: Weepin Willow here is making my same point about Collin's decisionmaking/playmaking. Doesn't matter to me yet because he is making better decisions, and no one else has show they can bend the defense like that. Until they do we need Collin

I get where you are drawing this future vision of the Cavs: May we saw less Garland. In that time, Okoro saw his usage skyrocket and he was able to handle the ball as a point forward a whole lot more. Similarly, Sexton was seeing a huge jump in usage as well. While Garland was pretty much shelved, Okoro was able to show more of his offensive upside. We can ask why Garland isn't a more effective catch and shoot three point shooter, or we can ask why Sexton doesn't set the table for others well as an initiator/offensive centerpiece.

Here's the problem - do you think the team overall functioned better? I didn't watch that closely but the numbers certainly show that Okoro and Sexton individually enjoyed more success, but the team failed to compete for wins aside from the surprising Boston beat down.

I believe Okoro can grow from his expanded role in May, but simply moving on from the one guy who plays like a pass first player isn't the road to team success. I'd rather find out what Okoro and Garland can do together because I'm fully aware of what the Sexton show brings to the table.

If I really wanted to dig in, I'd say Sexton shouldn't be in a PnR based offense and if he played in a motion offense his limits wouldn't be exposed... but I'm picking and choosing what to critique with the franchise at the moment.
 
I agree. But then, if one of those guys becomes your primary ballhandler/PG, then what happens to Garland?
Then you trade Garland, in my mind. It really feels like an either/or proposition. Garland would probably net you a bigger return, but I think he has a better shot of being a high-end starting-level contributor on a winning NBA team than Collin in most situations.
 
Let's be fair, he just turned 20 during the season. Sexton was a trainwreck at age 20.
Limitations are limitations. Okoro is at best a bench guy right now. Probably will always at best being a bench guy. He has some skills. But they aren't enough to make it work as a starter for a winning team.
 

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-13: "Backup Bash Brothers"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:11: "Clipping Bucks."
Top