Isaac 3 & D Okoro - A Two Way Playing Basketball Savant

[PIP]

He kinda reminds me of Bucks Tobias Harris… Potential to be Sixers Tobias Harris

 

[Cavatt]

I get where you are drawing this future vision of the Cavs: May we saw less Garland. In that time, Okoro saw his usage skyrocket and he was able to handle the ball as a point forward a whole lot more. Similarly, Sexton was seeing a huge jump in usage as well. While Garland was pretty much shelved, Okoro was able to show more of his offensive upside. We can ask why Garland isn't a more effective catch and shoot three point shooter, or we can ask why Sexton doesn't set the table for others well as an initiator/offensive centerpiece.

Here's the problem - do you think the team overall functioned better? I didn't watch that closely but the numbers certainly show that Okoro and Sexton individually enjoyed more success, but the team failed to compete for wins aside from the surprising Boston beat down.

I believe Okoro can grow from his expanded role in May, but simply moving on from the one guy who plays like a pass first player isn't the road to team success. I'd rather find out what Okoro and Garland can do together because I'm fully aware of what the Sexton show brings to the table.

If I really wanted to dig in, I'd say Sexton shouldn't be in a PnR based offense and if he played in a motion offense his limits wouldn't be exposed... but I'm picking and choosing what to critique with the franchise at the moment.

We had such a noisy sample this season. 38 starting lineups or something absurd. Jarrett Allen had me questioning who was better him or Hartenstein by the end of the season. He played terribly. Very few good games by guys not named Sexton or Okoro after the Bulls game that put play in out of reach. They weren't winning games with Garland either at the end of his season. Love had 1 really good game all year.

It was total mess.

I personally think they should kick the can down the road another year. Let Sexton earn his max if he can. The front office should offer him 20M per and see what he says. "We think you are a great player and we are interested in giving you 1/5 of the 100M we think the starters on this team should cost. We get you may want the max, but we have no reason to offer that unless we have to match. We love you, and think maybe you are worth that. If you really prove it this year we will match that when another team offers it."

Garland improved enough that people are questioning whether you build around him or Sexton. That is great. He needs to improve more if he wants to be that guy IMO. Lots of people believe he can be.

I don't think it is really fair to say, do you think the team functioned better when Sexton ran the team at the end when play i was hopless compared to when Darius ran the team and there was a chance. Lots of guys gave up and I hated to see that.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I don't think it is really fair to say, do you think the team functioned better when Sexton ran the team at the end when play i was hopless compared to when Darius ran the team and there was a chance. Lots of guys gave up and I hated to see that.

I will absolutely agree with this part 100%. I'll try to stay away from blaming one or two players when the failure manifested from so many sources.

The team never found a rhythm after trading for Allen and Prince, which should have only strengthened the supporting cast around what the core of the offense were doing. There came a point that I had to stop watching. I hated the offensive sets and I hated the execution of the sets. It was just an eyesore, and I don't know what to take away from it other than "none of this works without serious change."

I personally think they should kick the can down the road another year. Let Sexton earn his max if he can. The front office should offer him 20M per and see what he says. "We think you are a great player and we are interested in giving you 1/5 of the 100M we think the starters on this team should cost. We get you may want the max, but we have no reason to offer that unless we have to match. We love you, and think maybe you are worth that. If you really prove it this year we will match that when another team offers it."

I think it's worth a shot, but I don't know if Sexton will agree. Koby Altman has close and long-standing ties to the core group he drafted. He won't be the one who pushes for Sexland and Okoro to end. The source of change would likely be from ownership or a realization that the group might dominate youth tournaments, but it doesn't work in the NBA.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Koby Altman has close and long-standing ties to the core group he drafted. He won't be the one who pushes for Sexland and Okoro to end.

I dunno. As long as he feels he got value in a trade, he could trade Sexton or Garland and claim that his BPA strategy worked.

 

[Ozone]

Then you trade Garland, in my mind. It really feels like an either/or proposition. Garland would probably net you a bigger return, but I think he has a better shot of being a high-end starting-level contributor on a winning NBA team than Collin in most situations.

Garland does not have a better shot at being a higher end starting level contributor than pretty much any playmaker in the Cavs pick range of this draft though. He has not shown enough yet as a scorer to separate himself imo. Not to be as safe as you want him to be in a starting role, even though the second season saved him from being a bust.
I want to see them put him out there in high pressure situations, with double teams like Sexton has been getting, and see if he can do the same thing Sexton does. If so, then you know he is the better option if you ignore Sextons playmaking improvements, in the starting line up, based on Garlands ability to feed the bigs and call out plays on the fly. If not no way in hell is he pushing Sexton out because Garland has a nice wide open 3 or floater to go with his lobs smh

 

[daddywags]

I guess I don't see why one of our top 8 draft picks (Sexton, Garland, Okoro, or this year's pick) can't play off the bench. I also don’t see why, of the four, Sexton is the obvious choice.

 

[2 For The Brew]

Part of the problem with the Cavaliers last season is that Drummond, while an inefficient offensive option, was a legitimate offensive option. Made sense to start Allen but that meant we had two starters on the floor who weren't offensive options (Okoro and Allen). Nance when he started was at best a 1/2 option; Wade was only good as a set three point shooter, and Love didn't have many games where he played well, so everything fell to SexLand.

I don't think we can really know what we have until we get a reliable starting forward who scores. Love could be that guy but he's not healthy enough. Okoro is too raw. Wade is limited.

Not sure our awful offense is SexLand's fault.

 

[Ozone]

I dunno. As long as he feels he got value in a trade, he could trade Sexton or Garland and claim that his BPA strategy worked.

I doubt he gets any real offers enough to move the needle on Sexton, given he is going into contract stuff . Garland could get interest during the draft, especially for a ball handler hungry team that misses out on the top options. I think it would take a lot for the GM to trade him this summer, unless they draft a playmaker though beforehand.

 

[Ozone]

Limitations are limitations. Okoro is at best a bench guy right now. Probably will always at best being a bench guy. He has some skills. But they aren't enough to make it work as a starter for a winning team.

I am sorry but anyone who can draw defenses even when they can't shoot, is far more valuable than say someone who can make some wide open 3s, and throw an efficient pocket pass, after dribbling around for most of the shot clock. Okoro with the ball is night and day better than Okoro without the ball. He also made a case that he could be a main ball handler that plays defense. I would have no problem with letting Okoro run the point, and have a staggered Sexland play off of him if they draft Mobley or Kuminga.

 

[Blazie]

If we somehow got mobley, all this Sexland anxiety would go away real fast.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I doubt he gets any real offers enough to move the needle on Sexton, given he is going into contract stuff . Garland could get interest during the draft, especially for a ball handler hungry team that misses out on the top options. I think it would take a lot for the GM to trade him this summer, unless they draft a playmaker though beforehand.

I believe Sexton can help a contender who needs to change something up to get over the hump. The beauty of dangling Sexton is that the new team gets Bird Rights, so they negotiate from a great position on a young scorer in 2022.

I believe Sexton would help a veteran team out a lot as a third or fourth best player. He's incredibly talented as a scorer and durable. I just don't think the Cavs are going anywhere with him as the clear alpha.

I look at a team like the Warriors and wonder - wouldn't you prefer Sexton over those two firsts if they don't make top 3? They should.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I guess I don't see why one of our top 8 draft picks (Sexton, Garland, Okoro, or this year's pick) can't play off the bench. I also don’t see why, of the four, Sexton is the obvious choice.

I think it's much easier to have a rookie begin the season coming off the bench versus being moving a guy in his 2nd, 3rd, or 4th year to the bench in favor of a newly-drafted rookie. Especially when the three older guys have all been progressing.

 

[J_J]

I think it's much easier to have a rookie beging the season coming off the bench versus being moving a guy in his 2nd, 3rd, or 4th year to the bench in favor of a newly-drafted rookie. Especially when the three older guys have all been progressing.

Agree. Prove it like what Lamelo did last season and he then got to be on the starting lineup.

 

[daddywags]

I think it's much easier to have a rookie beging the season coming off the bench versus being moving a guy in his 2nd, 3rd, or 4th year to the bench in favor of a newly-drafted rookie. Especially when the three older guys have all been progressing.

I agree. Seems the easiest move would be to draft a wing and have that guy or Okoro play off the bench. Guys like Green, Barnes, Wagner, Kuminga, Moody, etc., could all easily begin their careers off the bench. Probably be best if they did, actually.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I think it's much easier to have a rookie begin the season coming off the bench versus being moving a guy in his 2nd, 3rd, or 4th year to the bench in favor of a newly-drafted rookie. Especially when the three older guys have all been progressing.

The cart is way in front of the horse at this point, right? I am a big fan of selectively giving your lottery pick starts in the right situations. But who is that guy? Until we know how raw the Cavs pick is going to be, I can't say if he should start or not.