Isaac 3 & D Okoro - A Two Way Playing Basketball Savant

[All4One1ForAll]

Exactly. Plus he is comparing to non rookie stats. Sexton had a decent rookie year by most measurements of a rookie year. Dont fall in love with advanced stats, they are a tool not a gospel.

You have not given me these "most measurements" you keep talking about. I'm asking you, what are they? If your answer is just raw PPG on inefficient scoring then you've already lost.

Advanced stats tend to be unkind to everyone on a bad team.

That's because bad teams have a lot of bad players. Would rookie Sexton have been a positive impact player if you put him on any other team in the league? I'm shocked this is so controversial here. I thought it was well understood that Sexton had a very rough rookie season, but made big leaps each of the next 2 years, but I guess not.

 

[Lee]

You have not given me these "most measurements" you keep talking about. I'm asking you, what are they? If your answer is just raw PPG on inefficient scoring then you've already lost.


That's because bad teams have a lot of bad players. Would rookie Sexton have been a positive impact player if you put him on any other team in the league? I'm shocked this is so controversial here. I thought it was well understood that Sexton had a very rough rookie season, but made big leaps each of the next 2 years, but I guess not.

43% shooting was not efficient, but he was 40% from 3, he was a rookie, compare to only rookies. 16 ppg and shooting 43/40/84 shooting is good for a rookie pg. He played out of position, his defense was awful, still not good, but when ONLY comparing to other rookie seasons, he had a good rookie season, which is especially tough on a bad team, because advanced stats favor better teams even for individuals.

Rookies are almost NEVER positive impact players....they are fucking rookies. You said he had a bad rookie season. If you want to say he wasnt a good impact player his rookie year, that is fine, but its also kind of stupid. Rookie players are not positive impact players, they are still learning, we expect too much from rookies, seldom are they ever good. Some dont appear as bad, like a Kobe because he played only 15 mins a game, he shot 42% 37.5 from 3. But Kobe didnt have a bad rookie season, he was a rookie, still learning the league.

Not sure how you think Sexton had a bad rookie season. Sexton wasnt a good player his rookie year, but for a rookie he was better than average. Advanced metrics are garbage without context, and i am a metrics guy, you are just using them to the point that they become useless. Context = Rookie year.

 

[Lee]

You have not given me these "most measurements" you keep talking about. I'm asking you, what are they? If your answer is just raw PPG on inefficient scoring then you've already lost.


That's because bad teams have a lot of bad players. Would rookie Sexton have been a positive impact player if you put him on any other team in the league? I'm shocked this is so controversial here. I thought it was well understood that Sexton had a very rough rookie season, but made big leaps each of the next 2 years, but I guess not.

Did Anthony Edwards or LaMelo Ball have bad rookie years? Both scored similar, both less efficient with shot. Edwards simular assist numbers better rebounder, Ball was better assists and rebounder.

They arent good players yet, but for rookies they both had good years, that is my point, as soon as you put the qualifier rookie in there, you cant compare to anyone but other rookies. You cant say Sexton had a rookie year then use league wide stats to prove your point...show me ROOKIE ONLY stats. It was a rookie year we are comparing.

 

[dark2332]

I think Isaac Okoro shoots over 36% from 3 this year.

And that’s plenty good enough with all else he does well.

 

[All4One1ForAll]

Did Anthony Edwards or LaMelo Ball have bad rookie years? Both scored similar, both less efficient with shot. Edwards simular assist numbers better rebounder, Ball was better assists and rebounder.

They arent good players yet, but for rookies they both had good years, that is my point, as soon as you put the qualifier rookie in there, you cant compare to anyone but other rookies. You cant say Sexton had a rookie year then use league wide stats to prove your point...show me ROOKIE ONLY stats. It was a rookie year we are comparing.

Edwards was awful for half of his rookie season, yes:

Pre-All Star:
14.9 ppg / 4.0 rpg / 2.5 apg / 1.8 topg / 46.6% TS / -8.9 +/-

Post All-Star:
23.8 ppg / 5.5 rpg / 3.4 apg / 2.6 topg / 56.7% TS / -1.2 +/-

And then he made a crazy turnaround and was very good for a rookie for the next half of it. So averaged out, he had a solid year on the whole. His advanced metrics are also nowhere near as bad as Sexton's were in 2019.

Ball had an awesome rookie year across virtually all facets. And he wasn't less efficient. He scored more efficiently (+2% TS) and his ast/to ratio blew Sexton's out of the water. He averaged twice as many rebounds and twice as many assists. He was way better defensively. And he even volume scored at a greater rate (minute or possession basis). His advanced metrics paint him as a slight positive impact player. The fact you're even comparing Ball's season to Sexton tells me what you place value on. Again, if you don't care about efficiency, defense, actual impact, or any of the advanced metrics, and points are all that matter to you when evaluating rookies, that's cool, but I don't subscribe to that idea. I guess you must also think Jahlil Okafor was a monster his rookie season posting 18/7 per game and then he just got worse from there on. James Wiseman posted 12/6 with 52% FG in just 21 mpg. Per 36, that's 19.3 points, 9.7 rebounds, and 1.6 bpg. He was awesome too, I take it?

 

[2 For The Brew]

43% shooting was not efficient, but he was 40% from 3, he was a rookie, compare to only rookies. 16 ppg and shooting 43/40/84 shooting is good for a rookie pg. He played out of position, his defense was awful, still not good, but when ONLY comparing to other rookie seasons, he had a good rookie season, which is especially tough on a bad team, because advanced stats favor better teams even for individuals.

Rookies are almost NEVER positive impact players....they are fucking rookies. You said he had a bad rookie season. If you want to say he wasnt a good impact player his rookie year, that is fine, but its also kind of stupid. Rookie players are not positive impact players, they are still learning, we expect too much from rookies, seldom are they ever good. Some dont appear as bad, like a Kobe because he played only 15 mins a game, he shot 42% 37.5 from 3. But Kobe didnt have a bad rookie season, he was a rookie, still learning the league.

Not sure how you think Sexton had a bad rookie season. Sexton wasnt a good player his rookie year, but for a rookie he was better than average. Advanced metrics are garbage without context, and i am a metrics guy, you are just using them to the point that they become useless. Context = Rookie year.

No other rookie shot anywhere near 40% from three. Collin played all 82 games and led rookies in total minutes. Was also the best FT shooter. Obviously his defense and advanced metrics were below average but he ended up fifth in ROY voting so he was not bad at all overall.

 

[ice cream man]

I think you start Okoro at the 2 and to support Mobley you start him with Allen. We need Okoro and Mobley to reach their full potential and that’s not gonna happen for Okoro if he is standing in the corner all game again. Force him to be more involved as a playmaker offensively.

I would personally start Wade at the 3. They could also go with Nance and with either choice that makes for a pretty damn good defense.

 

[cabs]

I think you start Okoro at the 2 and to support Mobley you start him with Allen. We need Okoro and Mobley to reach their full potential and that’s not gonna happen for Okoro if he is standing in the corner all game again. Force him to be more involved as a playmaker offensively.

I would personally start Wade at the 3. They could also go with Nance and with either choice that makes for a pretty damn good defense.

Ideally we use our cap space on one of Porter/McDermott/Bullock so we can start one of those at the 3 to space floor and allow Okoro to start at the 2. I like Wade but I hope his starting days are over

 

[ryanf]

To the one lambasting sexton's rookie year, how was garland's and okoro's?

FYI, sexton scored only 2 less points per game than kyrie in his rookie year, and shot the same percentage from 3.

 

[Derek]

To the one lambasting sexton's rookie year, how was garland's and okoro's?

They were all really bad as rookies.

 

[ryanf]

They were all really bad as rookies.

Hmmmm... let me put it this way, sexton out performed his draft position and will go higher in a redraft after his rookie year is over. Garland and okoro doesn't for me.

 

[foucault87]

Hmmmm... let me put it this way, sexton out performed his draft position and will go higher in a redraft after his rookie year is over. Garland and okoro doesn't for me.

There is no way there are 5 better players than garland in that draft. Im not sure there are 3. Zion, ja. Thats it

 

[Derek]

Hmmmm... let me put it this way, sexton out performed his draft position and will go higher in a redraft after his rookie year is over. Garland and okoro doesn't for me.

I don’t think any of them performed even average for their draft position during their rookie season.

 

[ryanf]

There is no way there are 5 better players than garland in that draft. Im not sure there are 3. Zion, ja. Thats it

You have a point there. I would rank hunter, herro and hachimura a little higher than garland though because they had big moments already or are 2 way prospects.

 

[ryanf]

I don’t think any of them performed even average for their draft position during their rookie season.

That's an interesting take and would need a bunch of data wrangling to prove or disprove. I don't agree with you, but i don't have the time to back my disagreement with numbers.