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Isaac 3 & D Okoro - A Two Way Playing Basketball Savant

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Who is Isaac Okoro's Favorite Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Emperor?

  • Arcadius (if one does not count Constantine as first)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Justinian the Great

    Votes: 8 14.3%
  • Zeno

    Votes: 2 3.6%
  • Heraclius

    Votes: 3 5.4%
  • Basil II, the Bulgar Slayer

    Votes: 6 10.7%
  • Nikephoros II Phokas, the Pale Death of the Saracens

    Votes: 7 12.5%
  • Alexios I Komnenos

    Votes: 4 7.1%
  • John II, the Beautiful Komnenos

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Constantine XI

    Votes: 4 7.1%
  • Jim I Chones, the Magnificent

    Votes: 26 46.4%

  • Total voters
    56
Okoro was a great pick that signaled that defense was no longer optional but a priority.
The Cavs were 25th in offensive efficiency but dead last in defensive efficiency. The development staff have done well in improving the jumper of a few key guys so I’m hopeful that with Okoro’s work ethic, he’ll be able to do the same. The team desperately needed defense and BBIQ and they nailed it with this pick.
 
I'm we'll also see some small lineups.

Garland
Sexton
KPJ
Okoro
Drummond
 
I posed this question in S34 but will do it here......Deni / Okoro is a personal preference battle in my eye. It is one of those "what do you look for in a basketball player". There are arguments for both that have merits.

Where I really struggle with Okoro specifically is why you take him over someone like Okongwu? Okongwu seems like a higher success canidate, in addition to maintaining roster flexibility. We are now in a situation with our wings and guards where nearly all the guys need to be good for this to make any sense.

If we roll in to 2021, are we really investing in another guard or wing? After taking 2 guards in the top 8 and then 3 wings in two drafts? One in the top 5?

Okongwu would have paired nicely with Love and slotted in TT's role. He would have provided energy, defense and intangibles but he also would have given you more roster building options moving forward. In 2021, we would have had room for a 3/4/5, depending on your draft board. It seems that we now are only in the market for a 4/5 in 2021, in a draft that has insane wing talent but few interesting 4's or 5's.
 
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I posed this question in S34 but will do it here......Deni / Okoro is a personal preference battle in my eye. It is one of those "what do you look for in a basketball player". There are arguments for both that have merits.

Where I really struggle with Okoro specifically is why you take him over someone like Okongwu? Okongwu seems like a higher success canidate, in addition to maintaining roster flexibility. We are now in a situation with our wings and guards where nearly all the guys need to be good for this to make any sense.

If we roll in to 2021, are we really investing in another guard or wing? After taking 2 guards in the top 8 and then 3 wings in two drafts? One in the top 5?

Okongwu would have paired nicely with Love and slotted in TT's role. He would have provided energy, defense and intangibles but he also would have given you more roster building options moving forward. In 2021 would have had room for a 3/4/5, depending on your draft board. It seems that we now are only in the market for a 4/5 in 2021, in a draft that has insane wing talent but few interesting 4's or 5's.
Maybe they have more info regarding Okongwu's injury? Also it looks like Okongwu doesn't have an NBA body yet compared to Okoro who is built like a tank... My guess also is personality played a big part, they probably wanted a bulldog on defense to partner with Sexton who is the bulldog on offense...

Personally, I Okoro was a couple of inches taller though, seems like the Cavs are shorter than average by all position
 
I posed this question in S34 but will do it here......Deni / Okoro is a personal preference battle in my eye. It is one of those "what do you look for in a basketball player". There are arguments for both that have merits.

Where I really struggle with Okoro specifically is why you take him over someone like Okongwu? Okongwu seems like a higher success canidate, in addition to maintaining roster flexibility. We are now in a situation with our wings and guards where nearly all the guys need to be good for this to make any sense.

If we roll in to 2021, are we really investing in another guard or wing? After taking 2 guards in the top 8 and then 3 wings in two drafts? One in the top 5?

Okongwu would have paired nicely with Love and slotted in TT's role. He would have provided energy, defense and intangibles but he also would have given you more roster building options moving forward. In 2021 would have had room for a 3/4/5, depending on your draft board. It seems that we now are only in the market for a 4/5 in 2021, in a draft that has insane wing talent but few interesting 4's or 5's.

I think Okongwu is a player you take if you have already built a switch everything kind of lineup and have alot of 3 pt shooting already. If you put him on the Cavs I think how good he turns out relies heavily on if he can add a 3 pt shot. While on the Hawks or somewhere like Boston, it just becomes an added plus if he develops that 3 pt shot.

The way I think about it is if LeBron didn't come back, how would we view TT. I don't think we would see TT as a bust but we would definitely be comparing him alot more to the players we passed up on to draft him. I also think we will see the lack of value TT has in the open market when free agency opens up. He could be quickly coming back to the Cavs with the offers he gets.
 
I posed this question in S34 but will do it here......Deni / Okoro is a personal preference battle in my eye. It is one of those "what do you look for in a basketball player". There are arguments for both that have merits.

Where I really struggle with Okoro specifically is why you take him over someone like Okongwu? Okongwu seems like a higher success canidate, in addition to maintaining roster flexibility. We are now in a situation with our wings and guards where nearly all the guys need to be good for this to make any sense.

If we roll in to 2021, are we really investing in another guard or wing? After taking 2 guards in the top 8 and then 3 wings in two drafts? One in the top 5?

Okongwu would have paired nicely with Love and slotted in TT's role. He would have provided energy, defense and intangibles but he also would have given you more roster building options moving forward. In 2021, we would have had room for a 3/4/5, depending on your draft board. It seems that we now are only in the market for a 4/5 in 2021, in a draft that has insane wing talent but few interesting 4's or 5's.

First of all, I had Okongwu in the top tier of prospects, my #4. I have a lot of appreciation for a big man project on offense who is polished on defense and on the boards.

I also think Okongwu is going to be a rotational 25 minute per night player until he develops some offensive skill with the ball in his hands. He doesn't handle the ball, he doesn't pass, he offensive rebounds and puts it back. The Cavs could afford to let TT fill that role when they were losing a lot of games, and then he slowly put together a jumps shot. In Atlanta, he can develop slowly with Capella on the roster.

With Okoro, he fills a much bigger need. The Cavs are already deep with veterans at the center position, making playing time a barrier for such a raw offensive prospect. At swingman, it's truly wide open for Okoro to start early.
 
You are championing KPJ as your burn down analytical case still? It is not even worth talking through that. He was 47th in the draft in VORP this season. I typically wait to see how it shakes out after a few years but he has proven nothing at this point. He had a low probability of being a top VORP player from his draft.....and from what I see, he still does. Anyway. I don't want to get distracted by this KPJ thing.



Brown no, Kawhi yes. Kawhi was a really weird one. He profiled as a top 5 pick in that 2011 draft. All the analytical markers were there to take him and no one did. But it was 2011 and we have certainly come a long way since then from a data analysis standpoint. It is possible too many teams relied on out dated scouting measures still.

Brown was an exceptionally rare case. He had one of the worst analytical draft profiles, relative to his position, in the possession era. When you look at that list of guys, the bottom list Brown landed in......he is the only player out of the 22 (6% of the database) who landed in that tier and went on to be a VORP or better player. Exceptions tell you it is possible but the data still says it is really unlikely.

If you extend it further, there are 60 possession era players in the below average tier Okoro landed in. Only 4 have been VORP or better players (7%). In the tier Okongwu landed in, there were 32 players in the possession era. 21 of the 32 have already emerged as VORP or better players (66%). A third of the time, guys in that group are all-stars.

That is my big hangup here. I just think there was far more certainty in OO succeeding. Okoro may be good.....but all the data says he's in a low success rate group. Does that mean the Cavs front office won't look smart a few years from now? No.....it is just tough to understand what the rational was internally when two players at a position of need produced at such vastly different levels.

I'm not saying Okoro is doomed but it is definitely a case where I have trouble squaring why he would be the selection, relative to how OO graded out. I'll be curious to see what happens in this draft. In the lottery, there we 3 guys flagged as higher than average bust candidates: Okoro, Williams and Anthony. I'm curious to see how those guys do in their first few years.

Nothing we can do now. I think the draft was weak and Okoro is one of the guys with a higher upside. The tools are there.

The tape tells me your are underrating Okoro, and his win loss record does as well. Since he was a junior in high school he has lost just 10 games. Only 2 when he was available to play. That's a data point your model can't explain neatly. Team was below .500 without him. 10-110 isn't nothing.
 
I love this kid. After Wiseman and Williams, he was next for me.

I can eventually see Garland, KPJ, Okoro as 1-3 with Sexton being the top scoring reserve in the league as 6th man.

You liked Williams? Wiseman was my guy if he dropped, just too much talent. After that it was Okoro, I just always like guys who have high BBIQ and tireless work ethics, those are the types that develop. Okoro also had a good physical profile with size and athletic ability. You can work on your shot, but as Garland and Sexton have prove,. you cant get longer or more athletic.
 
First of all, I had Okongwu in the top tier of prospects, my #4. I have a lot of appreciation for a big man project on offense who is polished on defense and on the boards.

I also think Okongwu is going to be a rotational 25 minute per night player until he develops some offensive skill with the ball in his hands. He doesn't handle the ball, he doesn't pass, he offensive rebounds and puts it back. The Cavs could afford to let TT fill that role when they were losing a lot of games, and then he slowly put together a jumps shot. In Atlanta, he can develop slowly with Capella on the roster.

With Okoro, he fills a much bigger need. The Cavs are already deep with veterans at the center position, making playing time a barrier for such a raw offensive prospect. At swingman, it's truly wide open for Okoro to start early.

I like Okongwu allot too, wouldn't have been mad at all if he was our pick.

I was leaning Okoro, but either would make me happy.
 
You liked Williams? Wiseman was my guy if he dropped, just too much talent. After that it was Okoro, I just always like guys who have high BBIQ and tireless work ethics, those are the types that develop. Okoro also had a good physical profile with size and athletic ability. You can work on your shot, but as Garland and Sexton have prove,. you cant get longer or more athletic.

Richfield talked up Williams early in the week in the staff section. I get it - Florida State had him on a short leash and coming off the bench behind upper classmen to try to keep him on campus an extra year, but scouts saw through it.

I wonder how mentally ready and mature Williams is to do well as a rookie, but the physical profile is there. He can play some serious defense.
 
Richfield talked up Williams early in the week in the staff section. I get it - Florida State had him on a short leash and coming off the bench behind upper classmen to try to keep him on campus an extra year, but scouts saw through it.

I wonder how mentally ready and mature Williams is to do well as a rookie, but the physical profile is there. He can play some serious defense.

Fair enough, one and done off the bench just reminds me too much of Dion, lol
 

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