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Isaac 3 & D Okoro - A Two Way Playing Basketball Savant

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Who is Isaac Okoro's Favorite Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Emperor?

  • Arcadius (if one does not count Constantine as first)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Justinian the Great

    Votes: 8 14.3%
  • Zeno

    Votes: 2 3.6%
  • Heraclius

    Votes: 3 5.4%
  • Basil II, the Bulgar Slayer

    Votes: 6 10.7%
  • Nikephoros II Phokas, the Pale Death of the Saracens

    Votes: 7 12.5%
  • Alexios I Komnenos

    Votes: 4 7.1%
  • John II, the Beautiful Komnenos

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Constantine XI

    Votes: 4 7.1%
  • Jim I Chones, the Magnificent

    Votes: 26 46.4%

  • Total voters
    56
I wouldn’t care if they stopped counting rebounds or only counted contested rebounds. Does it really matter who happens to grab the ball when there are 3 Cavs around and everyone on the other team is getting back on D? Does it really matter if Drummond gets 4 boards on one possession because he’s incapable of making a point blank shot? I’d rather they count box outs if all things were equal, but rebounds are an easily quantifiable stat so that’s why it’s counted. But just because it’s easy to quantify doesn’t mean it has value.
Call me naive but I think rebounds have value. If you don't that's fine, I won't try to convince you otherwise.

Drummond, whose name you brought up, led the league in rebounding four years in a row if I'm not mistaken. This year he's making $28 million. I think there's a connection.

By the way, rebounding your own missed shot and scoring has a value of two points more than a player who misses his shot and doesn't rebound it.

Maybe when players are so wide open that their shots are uncontested we shouldn't count those points on their stat sheets - only the contested shots. Same for making technical free throws - since the player wasn't fouled the point shouldn't count on his stats.

How about they only get 2.5 points for corner threes since they're closer and easier to make than 3's from the angle or straight on? And uncontested dunks definitely should not count on the player's scoring average.
 
Rebounding matters. Okoro appears able to rebound, but may need focusing on that. So far, when we have seen him turn his attention he has succeeded.

Definitely, has some intensity and a great motor. Just depends how much talent he has to develop.

His poise is crazy. He performs in high pressure situations and Collin has been praising him for it.
 
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Team rebounding matters much more than individual stats for rebounding. Wade had 4 rebounds in his 2nd start and 12 in his last start. Did he rebound better the last night. No, not necessarily. Did the ball bounce off the rim his way more the last night? Yes it did. Do rebounding stats make a difference to some fools that are padding stats? Yeah like Drummond will jump across the lane over a teammate and fight his teammate for a rebound we already had. If I was coaching him he’d hear the buzzer for a sub so fast it would make his head spin.
 
A lot of defensive rebounds are completely uncontested lol boxing out is important, doesnt mean you'll get the rebound though
 
Call me naive but I think rebounds have value. If you don't that's fine, I won't try to convince you otherwise.

Drummond, whose name you brought up, led the league in rebounding four years in a row if I'm not mistaken. This year he's making $28 million. I think there's a connection.

By the way, rebounding your own missed shot and scoring has a value of two points more than a player who misses his shot and doesn't rebound it.

Maybe when players are so wide open that their shots are uncontested we shouldn't count those points on their stat sheets - only the contested shots. Same for making technical free throws - since the player wasn't fouled the point shouldn't count on his stats.

How about they only get 2.5 points for corner threes since they're closer and easier to make than 3's from the angle or straight on? And uncontested dunks definitely should not count on the player's scoring average.

You are taking about changing the game, I'm talking about evaluating players. And your $28 million rebound machine essentially isn't playing in the NBA right now. What does that tell you about how rebounds are valued in the current NBA?
 
disgressing, but the better stat would be team rebounds per possession. because that's all there is to it, you rebound the ball from an opponent's missed shot to complete your defensive sequence.
 
I'll concede that uncontested rebounds have no value, unless the player was smart enough to get himself in position to get the rebound, like on a long rebound off a missed 3.

Players who have the size, strength, technique, and length to get tough contested rebounds are very valuable, and those are the guys who tend to put up the big rebounding numbers.

Right now the Cavs are 26th in a 30-team league in defensive rebounding percentage. It's a problem. With Nance and Love out they need to get more production on the defensive glass from guys like Okoro and Cedi.

Okoro ranks in the 0% percentile in defensive rebounding percentage. He's the worst rebounding forward in the league. Cedi is in the 29th percentile, well below average. Part of the problem is the small guards - the Cavs don't have 6'5" guards to help out on the defensive glass. Sexton and Garland are in the 2nd and 10th percentile among guards for defensive rebounding so it puts more importance on the forwards to prevent second chance points.

The good news is that Nance is in the 75th percentile and Love the 90th percentile among forwards and they will be back at some point. We should see the Cavs move up from 26th place, especially if Okoro keeps hitting the glass like he did against the Sixers.
 
disgressing, but the better stat would be team rebounds per possession. because that's all there is to it, you rebound the ball from an opponent's missed shot to complete your defensive sequence.
Correct, rebounding is part of defense. If you force a missed shot but fail to secure the rebound you're right back where you started except the opponent only has 14 seconds to shoot.

I like rebounding percentage, which is the percentage of missed shots a team or individual gets. Drummond is in the 100th percentile among bigs, putting him in the top 1%. He's not playing now but that is not because of his rebounding. Zero percent of him not playing is due to rebounding. It's a combination of his low offensive production, his contract expiring, and the unexpected acquisition of Jarrett Allen.

I posted a link to a column on another thread in which an NBA exect says four Eastern Conference contenders are expected to target Drummond.
 
Correct, rebounding is part of defense. If you force a missed shot but fail to secure the rebound you're right back where you started except the opponent only has 14 seconds to shoot.

I like rebounding percentage, which is the percentage of missed shots a team or individual gets. Drummond is in the 100th percentile among bigs, putting him in the top 1%. He's not playing now but that is not because of his rebounding. Zero percent of him not playing is due to rebounding. It's a combination of his low offensive production, his contract expiring, and the unexpected acquisition of Jarrett Allen.

I posted a link to a column on another thread in which an NBA exect says four Eastern Conference contenders are expected to target Drummond.

I would argue that due to the shortened shot clock reset, rebounds are not as valuable as they were 10 years ago. Also I do think team rebounding is far more important then having a big who can individually get rebounds, that is partly due to the amount of 3s taken in the modern NBA, there are far more long rebounds then there ever has been, so having a slow center who grabs loads of boards isn’t very important, because so many rebounds bounce far from the rim. Drummonds numbers were also really inflated by him catching his own misses
 
A lot of defensive rebounds are completely uncontested lol boxing out is important, doesnt mean you'll get the rebound though
Yes I remember Ilgauskas was so important to team rebounding because he was so good at boxing out. He typically wouldn't get credit for the rebound (Lebron, Boozer, Gooden, Andy, etc would actually get the board) but having a big man willing to box out certainly led to many team rebounds
 
Yes I remember Ilgauskas was so important to team rebounding because he was so good at boxing out. He typically wouldn't get credit for the rebound (Lebron, Boozer, Gooden, Andy, etc would actually get the board) but having a big man willing to box out certainly led to many team rebounds
It's why you have seen the defensive rebounding improve with Wade over Cedi and Prince at the 4, and should be even better when we get Larry back (or Love)
 
Call me naive but I think rebounds have value. If you don't that's fine, I won't try to convince you otherwise.

Drummond, whose name you brought up, led the league in rebounding four years in a row if I'm not mistaken. This year he's making $28 million. I think there's a connection.

By the way, rebounding your own missed shot and scoring has a value of two points more than a player who misses his shot and doesn't rebound it.

Maybe when players are so wide open that their shots are uncontested we shouldn't count those points on their stat sheets - only the contested shots. Same for making technical free throws - since the player wasn't fouled the point shouldn't count on his stats.

How about they only get 2.5 points for corner threes since they're closer and easier to make than 3's from the angle or straight on? And uncontested dunks definitely should not count on the player's scoring average.
Well said
 
Typical for younger players to play better at home
 
When the Cavs drafted him, everyone new his offense was lacking but felt it could be improved with coaching. I don't understand how everyone's patients is gone so quickly? Scroll down these pages and check out the first year stats for the following players:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/antetgi01.html


 

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