Welcome to Cleveland, James Harden!

What's the best basketball comparison for James Harden?

  • Paul Pierce

    Votes: 28 32.6%

  • Kobe Bryant

    Votes: 3 3.5%

  • Manu Ginobili

    Votes: 4 4.7%

  • Dion Waiters

    Votes: 12 14.0%

  • Alonzo Gee

    Votes: 7 8.1%

  • Jim Chones

    Votes: 32 37.2%
  • Total voters
    86
NMCav said:
What you want doesn't matter. He will be here for at least another season.
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He’s a “loud” player as both his good and bad stretches jump out and divisive - I’d rather we got more of “I just don’t like him” vs what I perceive to be a fig leaf of contract talks.
 
bdc2014 said:
He’s a “loud” player as both his good and bad stretches jump out and divisive - I’d rather we got more of “I just don’t like him” vs what I perceive to be a fig leaf of contract talks.
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Perhaps some us are okay with Harden on a $25M per deal that will be tradeable later, and won't cost Wade, or a shot at other players, but far less okay with a contract that's more expensive, harder to move, and costly in terms of roster construction.
 
CavsKermit said:
Perhaps some us are okay with Harden on a $25M per deal that will be tradeable later, and won't cost Wade, or a shot at other players, but far less okay with a contract that's more expensive, harder to move, and costly in terms of roster construction.
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at a certain point it’s a distinction without a difference. tell will be if a 2/58 plus a TO or light guarantee - something that is on the favorable edge of reasonable will cause a switch-up - everyone is ok with a something for nothing deal, and getting a PG who gave you 20/8 or whatever it was for Harden for $25 a year is probably unreasonable. The guy can play and does stuff.
 
bdc2014 said:
at a certain point it’s a distinction without a difference. tell will be if a 2/58 plus a TO or light guarantee - something that is on the favorable edge of reasonable will cause a switch-up - everyone is ok with a something for nothing deal, and getting a PG who gave you 20/8 or whatever it was for Harden for $25 a year is probably unreasonable. The guy can play and does stuff.
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I think that at this point everyone knows what Harden's attributes and limitations are. It's not nearly as simple as writing down 20 and 8.

There's a market that exists outside of the pay me or lose me, without being able to replace me, model. The fact that Harden and his agent are constantly getting him into these pay me or lose me without being able to replace me situations matters. What his market outside of that model is, and will be going forward, matters. Whether the Cavs can retain Wade, or find a genuine replacement, matters. The fact that outside of the Wizards idiocy with Trae Young, there appears to be serious downward pressure on salaries matters. The fact that we might have to pay Mitchell 35% of the cap a year from now matters. It all matters and the reality is there's way too much team-friendly, taking a discount marketing surrounding his contract.

We appear to be stuck with Schroder. We may be stuck with Strus.
 
We need to be clear about what Harden is doing. He’s taking less to get more. Yes, he is taking less than the 42 million he is owed next year. But he’s doing so so he can sign for 2 years at 60 or so because he knows no one is giving him more than a vet minimum after next season. It’s smart business for us in year 1 to get under the apron. It’s smart business for Harden in year 2 to milk some more money at the end of his career. Does it work out for us? We will see. It might be 60 million that, with a year of continuity and Harden still effective, has us playing at a high level for another season. It might be 60 million in the toilet and the final nail in the Mitchell era if age and injuries accelerate his already declining play.
 
bdc2014 said:
at a certain point it’s a distinction without a difference. tell will be if a 2/58 plus a TO or light guarantee - something that is on the favorable edge of reasonable will cause a switch-up - everyone is ok with a something for nothing deal, and getting a PG who gave you 20/8 or whatever it was for Harden for $25 a year is probably unreasonable. The guy can play and does stuff.
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This is Harden's last real pay day. I would expect him to have another good season this year. I won't look beyond this season...
 
bushwick_bill said:
This is Harden's last real pay day. I would expect him to have another good season this year. I won't look beyond this season...
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I think as long as he has a good season, he will keep trying to tack on an extra year to his deal even if he has to keep giving a discount on the upcoming year. I think it's a good strategy by his people. The question is when will the Cavs pull the rip cord and trade him on to the next team that is willing to take that risk and give him another year on his deal.
 
bushwick_bill said:
This is Harden's last real pay day. I would expect him to have another good season this year. I won't look beyond this season...
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He could play as many more seasons as Bron if he wants......

Dude is meticulous. Could play until he's 70 probably.
 
Otsego Mar said:
He could play as many more seasons as Bron if he wants......

Dude is meticulous. Could play until he's 70 probably.
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He is nothing like LBJ. He doesn't work out 5 hours a day in the off season. I'm not even sure he'll be able to play defense at a passable level next playoff run. The Cavs were very fortunate in their first two matchups.
 
Dr No said:
We need to be clear about what Harden is doing. He’s taking less to get more. Yes, he is taking less than the 42 million he is owed next year. But he’s doing so so he can sign for 2 years at 60 or so because he knows no one is giving him more than a vet minimum after next season. It’s smart business for us in year 1 to get under the apron. It’s smart business for Harden in year 2 to milk some more money at the end of his career. Does it work out for us? We will see. It might be 60 million that, with a year of continuity and Harden still effective, has us playing at a high level for another season. It might be 60 million in the toilet and the final nail in the Mitchell era if age and injuries accelerate his already declining play.
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The last year of his present contract was only guaranteed $13M. The real question is whether he could even make up that $29M in the open market on a one-year deal if he opted in the Cavs cut him. I'm far less confident that he could than many of fellow Cavs fans. I suspect going in and negotiating down from $42M versus going in and negotiating up from $13M is a mistake, especially if you're giving him a second year.
 
CavsKermit said:
He is nothing like LBJ. He doesn't work out 5 hours a day in the off season. I'm not even sure he'll be able to play defense at a passable level next playoff run. The Cavs were very fortunate in their first two matchups.
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Didn't say he was like LBJ. Thanks though :)
 
Dr No said:
We need to be clear about what Harden is doing. He’s taking less to get more. Yes, he is taking less than the 42 million he is owed next year. But he’s doing so so he can sign for 2 years at 60 or so because he knows no one is giving him more than a vet minimum after next season. It’s smart business for us in year 1 to get under the apron. It’s smart business for Harden in year 2 to milk some more money at the end of his career. Does it work out for us? We will see. It might be 60 million that, with a year of continuity and Harden still effective, has us playing at a high level for another season. It might be 60 million in the toilet and the final nail in the Mitchell era if age and injuries accelerate his already declining play.
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It just seems like a generally reasonable proposition and risk management for both parties. I’d have kept Garland and hoped for health but think Harden / Schroder were a good hedge last year against an offense that was awful without PG play.

After next year he should still be productive ish for a bit but the pipe dream is that Proctor is ready then.
 
CavsKermit said:
The last year of his present contract was only guaranteed $13M. The real question is whether he could even make up that $29M in the open market on a one-year deal if he opted in the Cavs cut him. I'm far less confident that he could than many of fellow Cavs fans. I suspect going in and negotiating down from $42M versus going in and negotiating up from $13M is a mistake, especially if you're giving him a second year.
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did…the negotiating actually happen like that?

would it matter if it did between two sophisticated parties? this isn’t HGTV
bushwick_bill said:
This is Harden's last real pay day. I would expect him to have another good season this year. I won't look beyond this season...
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I don’t love his chances of being great in 27-28 but I think we’ll get the benefit of our bargain over the course of the contract.
 
bdc2014 said:
I don’t love his chances of being great in 27-28 but I think we’ll get the benefit of our bargain over the course of the contract.
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This league changes fast... 27-28 is too far away for me right now...
 
The deal I wish he would take is a 3 year 60, 25 million first two year and a player option for the 3rd year. Or even a 3 year 70 million dollar deal first two season at 25 and the third year partially guaranteed for 12 million.
 
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