JEREMIAH OWUSU-KORAMOAH

[DJTJ]

I actually have JOK ranked higher than Simmons because of size and length. Simmons also really played well in the second half of the year when the Cardinals started having him do more traditional MIKE things and less safety things.

To your point, what JOK does so well is adds another piece that can play in multiple positions. Troy Hill can play slot or boundary, JJ3 and Ronnie Harrison both so lots of linebacker-y things, JOK can play linebacker or safety, Walker can play the MIKE, SAM, and WILL, Clowney, Jackson, and Myles can all play inside or outside, etc.

The defense is incredibly versatile. Woods has no excuses this year.

Adding to the Cardinals talk, Simmons was terrific the last quarter of the year, and the first half he barely even saw the field, because they asked him to do WAY too much, essentially be in rooms for three different position groups. Once Vance Joseph figured it out, you saw glimpses of what’s going to make him incredibly successful.

 

[Jordan]

Also, in regards to this, the difference between the two players is pretty stark. People thought Isaiah Simmons would be able to cover just because he was super athletic and he would get a few right place at the right time INTs. While that's true, Simmons showed, on tape, that he wasn't very versatile when it came to coverage and had plenty to suggest that he was, at best, mediocre in college. What Simmons did best was as a traditional linebacker, taking on blocks and quickly shedding them to make the play.

In contrast, JOK has shown he is apt at playing coverage in College, so much so that Notre Dame would put him in as a slot corner and feel good about it against NFL prospects. The only flaw I see in his coverage abilities is totally correctable too, which is a huge plus (he struggles at finding a back slipping out into the flat at times). Where JOK struggles is attacking blockers in the running game. That's really his only true weakness. It feels like the Browns defense is being built with this in mind and just keeping their linebackers extremely clean. If you keep JOK clean, and he can run around, the defense is going to benefit immensely.

Maybe the biggest JOK trait that I wasn't expecting is that he does have some legitimately good pass rushing moves as an OLB. Not enough to play him there anywhere close to full time as a 3-4 EDGE rusher, but it's in his bag. A few times a game, if they wished, I think they could use him as a 5th rusher and cause real havoc, just to switch things up from time to time.

I agree with all of this. The differences between Simmons and JOK can be boiled down very quickly to "Projection vs Production." Simmons had athletic traits that people hoped could translate. JOK already did it.

I love JOK's ability to sort of dance around offensive linemen. Whether it was rushing the passer or attacking the run game, he was really good at that. I wonder how it'll play out in the NFL with linemen who are quicker, more athletic, and have longer reaches--but the ability and instincts are certainly there.

To be honest, I had JOK as a substantially better prospect than Simmons. I liked Simmons, but I think JOK could be a generational linebacker/rover.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

To be honest, I had JOK as a substantially better prospect than Simmons. I liked Simmons, but I think JOK could be a generational linebacker/rover.

It comes down to a few things with JOK:

1) Can he be kept clean? If the defensive line in front of him isn't good enough, I'm afraid of what he might do.

2) How do the Browns utilize him? I don't really have a worry in regards to this point, but until we see it on the field there is always going to be that fear.

3) Will he shore up his tackling game? Throwing arm tackles at Syracuse's running backs is fine, but he needs to be a little more surefire as a tackler in the NFL.

4) Health. No way of truly saying one way or another, but of course the recent reports, you never know but it's definitely the least of my worries by how the Browns have handled it.

Honestly, if 1 and 2 are good, then I think JOK will be a perennial all-pro/pro bowl player.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Maybe the biggest JOK trait that I wasn't expecting is that he does have some legitimately good pass rushing moves as an OLB. Not enough to play him there anywhere close to full time as a 3-4 EDGE rusher, but it's in his bag. A few times a game, if they wished, I think they could use him as a 5th rusher and cause real havoc, just to switch things up from time to time.

Sure -- basically would look like a corner blitz, right? Could even have both he and an actual corner up on the line to confuse the blockers.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Sure -- basically would look like a corner blitz, right? Could even have both he and an actual corner up on the line to confuse the blockers.

More of like an over/under 4-3 alignment up front and blitzing off of, say, Clowney who is playing more of a 5T.

Although they certainly could blitz him from the secondary. And of course, open a lane and have him shoot through it too. His ability to blitz is pretty damn good.

 

[Juice is Loose]

To be honest, I had JOK as a substantially better prospect than Simmons. I liked Simmons, but I think JOK could be a generational linebacker/rover.

Good lord, let's pump the brakes. The kid hasn't taken a snap in the NFL and we're already throwing out "generational". I don't think anyone in the NFL had JOK rated higher than Simmons. Why? Because one went 8th overall and the other went 52nd. That's quite a big difference. If he was "generational", he would've gone top 10.

I'm excited we got him where we did. But the way everyone has been talking about JOK, you would think he's already got a gold jacket on the way. Majority of players don't pan out as we hope they do. Remember Aaron Curry? He was labeled the "safest" pick in the draft. Went 4th overall, lasted 4 years.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Good lord, let's pump the brakes. The kid hasn't taken a snap in the NFL and we're already throwing out "generational". I don't think anyone in the NFL had JOK rated higher than Simmons. Why? Because one went 8th overall and the other went 52nd. That's quite a big difference. If he was "generational", he would've gone top 10.

I'm excited we got him where we did. But the way everyone has been talking about JOK, you would think he's already got a gold jacket on the way. Majority of players don't pan out as we hope they do. Remember Aaron Curry? He was labeled the "safest" pick in the draft. Went 4th overall, lasted 4 years.

I could talk about how draft value comparisons between years is irrelevant, as each class is different.

I could talk about how medical flags were treated differently last year and this year, compared to normal years. Teams who couldn't clear players often dropped them down or off their boards.

I could talk about the difference between someone's evaluation of a prospect, versus their actual NFL performance and how those are different conversations.

But, let's just keep this one simple--what linebacker in this generation covered receivers in man coverage as often and as successfully as JOK did at Notre Dame?

 

[Jordan]

I could talk about how draft value comparisons between years is irrelevant, as each class is different.

I could talk about how medical flags were treated differently last year and this year, compared to normal years. Teams who couldn't clear players often dropped them down or off their boards.

I could talk about the difference between someone's evaluation of a prospect, versus their actual NFL performance and how those are different conversations.

But, let's just keep this one simple--what linebacker in this generation covered receivers in man coverage as often and as successfully as JOK did at Notre Dame?

I’d also argue that Simmons’ poor performance until the Cardinals stopped using him as a rover hurt JOK’s draft stock.

Personally, I’ve never seen a linebacker prospect like this in the last decade. That may mean he sucks, but I think his skills in coverage and diagnosing plays combined with his length gives JOK that potential.

 

[Juice is Loose]

I could talk about how draft value comparisons between years is irrelevant, as each class is different.

I could talk about how medical flags were treated differently last year and this year, compared to normal years. Teams who couldn't clear players often dropped them down or off their boards.

I could talk about the difference between someone's evaluation of a prospect, versus their actual NFL performance and how those are different conversations.

But, let's just keep this one simple--what linebacker in this generation covered receivers in man coverage as often and as successfully as JOK did at Notre Dame?

Again, if he's as generational in man coverage as you say, he wouldn't have been the 4th linebacker taken in the back half of the 2nd round. Isaiah Simmons played every position on the field, was a better athlete and prospect. But we can't compare prospects between different years because it's irrelevant.

Browns usually hire in their scouting department around this time. Since most of you have seen all the tape you need to, know JOK is generational and the best coverage LB since Lavonte David. All of you should apply. We'll never miss on a draft pick again.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Again, if he's as generational in man coverage as you say, he wouldn't have been the 4th linebacker taken in the back half of the 2nd round. Isaiah Simmons played every position on the field, was a better athlete and prospect. But we can't compare prospects between different years because it's irrelevant.

Browns usually hire in their scouting department around this time. Since most of you have seen all the tape you need to, know JOK is generational and the best coverage LB since Lavonte David. All of you should apply. We'll never miss on a draft pick again.

Well, this could probably be tucked away in a textbook to see how many logical fallacies a student can find in a single post. But hey, the angry lashing out at other posters is pretty cool. At least you stuck the landing.

Sounds like you agree--no linebacker prospect this generation did what JOK did at ND.

What does that mean? Well, it doesn't count for much. He might be a terrific pro. He might be historically terrible. Like most NFL players, the situation and coaching he's placed in will be play an enormous role in how he's viewed as a successful/unsuccessful pro. The way he works, improves, and develops the traits that you saw on the field in college will be massively important, but also massively overlooked.

He's certainly a unique prospect who did things at the college level that no other player I can recall did.

 

[Vee-Rex]

Again, if he's as generational in man coverage as you say, he wouldn't have been the 4th linebacker taken in the back half of the 2nd round. Isaiah Simmons played every position on the field, was a better athlete and prospect. But we can't compare prospects between different years because it's irrelevant.

Browns usually hire in their scouting department around this time. Since most of you have seen all the tape you need to, know JOK is generational and the best coverage LB since Lavonte David. All of you should apply. We'll never miss on a draft pick again.

You're kind of getting swept up by the "generational" comment for whatever reason. All he did was say that he THINK that he COULD be a generational linebacker/rover.

Maybe JOK won't be but you're kinda overreacting here.

 

[Lee]

I’d also argue that Simmons’ poor performance until the Cardinals stopped using him as a rover hurt JOK’s draft stock.

Personally, I’ve never seen a linebacker prospect like this in the last decade. That may mean he sucks, but I think his skills in coverage and diagnosing plays combined with his length gives JOK that potential.

I dont think we can deny Simmons hurt JOK's draft stock.

I also think we can all agree JOK is not Simmons, but this is what happens in a copycat league.

We can also be thankful that this happened because if it didnt JOK would not have dropped.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I dont think we can deny Simmons hurt JOK's draft stock.

I also think we can all agree JOK is not Simmons, but this is what happens in a copycat league.

We can also be thankful that this happened because if it didnt JOK would not have dropped.

I'm sure both played roles, but I believe COVID's impact on the offseason, and teams not being able to personally clear medical flags, hurt JOK's draft stock more than Isaiah Simmons's rookie performance did.

We saw similar things happen last year to players like Bryce Hall, and this year to players like Cam McGrone. When there's no combine and teams can't individually clear medical flags, players with those flags sometimes fall to a draft position well below their talent level.

 

[MD13]

I think some people have touched on this on twitter, but one of the ways to really improve the defense is to jedi mind trick teams into running the ball more by playing personnel or packages that bait the run, because almost no team has the personnel to make the run a more effective play than the pass. Maybe that comes with playing JOK as a WLB in base.

The nice thing is we can also use him as a big nickel/dime slot corner if we want to stop the run and give more of a blitzing element against spread sets. I hope our defense is creative enough to use him well.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Again, if he's as generational in man coverage as you say, he wouldn't have been the 4th linebacker taken in the back half of the 2nd round. Isaiah Simmons played every position on the field, was a better athlete and prospect. But we can't compare prospects between different years because it's irrelevant.

Browns usually hire in their scouting department around this time. Since most of you have seen all the tape you need to, know JOK is generational and the best coverage LB since Lavonte David. All of you should apply. We'll never miss on a draft pick again.

NFL teams do weird shit.

Seahawks took Rashad Penny instead of Nick Chubb.

DK Metcalf was a 3rd rounder.

Russell Wilson lasted late, as did Dak Prescott.

I find fallacy that JOK isn't great in man coverage because he was drafted mid 2nd.