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What Do You Do For Work?

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No hijack here. This is a great discussion point.

I am at the end of a successful engineering career.. told from my point of view, so take it with a grain of salt.

I gravitated to engineering because I could do math, and because I had relatively low self esteem.. I needed to be able to prove I was right, as opposed to knowing that with confidence.. it's a pretty common thread amongst engineers and it feeds into the "my idea" culture. Engineering feels like a safe job, because projects are relatively ordered and make sense. But is an illusion of control. The key decisions that make or break your company are made in the boardroom, where few engineers go..

You have a lot going on personally and professionally. It's seems from your posts you suffer from anxiety being in front of people, which is right on brand for engineers.. We are all somewhere on the spectrum, and that same mental focus and struggle for order that makes us good at what we do, creates social problems both at work at at home..

You can get better at this by exposing yourself socially, which is exactly the most scary thing you can think of.. you should consider for example joining a speaking club like toastmasters once the pandemic eases.. it will do wonders for you.. joining a local community club is another thing to try.. Kiwana or similar.. When you go, think of it as an experiment.. not about what people think of you.. rather what kinds of people you see there, and think about how they operate... Observe and report in your head..

As for career choices, nine years in, you were passed over by Boss A in favor of Boss B. But both agree you are good at your job or they would not have given you a shot..My guess is that it's Boss A that is pulling you up..

you see yourself as an execution guy, but to be an effective boss, you have to switch to an expectations guy.. You have to be able to expect your team to do want you want. So number one you have to have a plan for what you want done, and the clearly communicate who you expect to do it and by when. But at the same time you have to recognize that your team won't do what you want just because you gave them an order. It's probably more true today than in previous generations that you have to get your team to share your vision so they will execute it. You do that by getting them to help build shape that vision. You listen, you challenge , then you stitch together your best judgement..

I have been both execution guy and manager.. I was very successful at managing, but personally it was less fun. I certainly made more money.. after 30 years I was pretty close to the top. I had stints in sales, operations, product design..But when I got there, what I saw was insanity. Decisions based on wrote strategies, a lack of understanding, and the results cost jobs, careers of good engineers..

I got out. I started my own consulting company and gave made that work.. It's scary, but I like it better.
 
Thanks all for taking the time to comment. It's genuinely really appreciated.

To a couple of points that were made...

We do have an environment where you pretty much have to do the job before you get the job. Our CTO was just saying that Thursday people some people complained about certain jobs not being posted, they were just filled without interview.

Regarding the money, it's not really a part of the decision for me. I'm assuming it would be 6-10% raise. Though my living expenses are about to go up ~$600/month with the separation + day care.

Regarding stress/time/work-life balance...it might actually get better. I deal with a lot of firefighting now, some weeks it can definitely be 60 hours. I know I work more hours than Bossman B.

Regarding anxiety...I was actually in and out of Toastmasters for a few years. It helped in some areas, not in others. Just wasn't crazy about some of the people in our local chapter. And so many times you get put on the spot to tell a story and the only good stories I have include alcohol, marijuana, urination, or some combination of those.
 
Thanks all for taking the time to comment. It's genuinely really appreciated.

To a couple of points that were made...

We do have an environment where you pretty much have to do the job before you get the job. Our CTO was just saying that Thursday people some people complained about certain jobs not being posted, they were just filled without interview.

Regarding the money, it's not really a part of the decision for me. I'm assuming it would be 6-10% raise. Though my living expenses are about to go up ~$600/month with the separation + day care.

Regarding stress/time/work-life balance...it might actually get better. I deal with a lot of firefighting now, some weeks it can definitely be 60 hours. I know I work more hours than Bossman B.

Regarding anxiety...I was actually in and out of Toastmasters for a few years. It helped in some areas, not in others. Just wasn't crazy about some of the people in our local chapter. And so many times you get put on the spot to tell a story and the only good stories I have include alcohol, marijuana, urination, or some combination of those.

First, even if this was the wrong thread, who cares, never going to get in trouble for being sincere on this board or asking for help....NEVER.

2nd, I am a bit worried about you, you have allot on your plate, ALLOT and your way of coping, drinking, is now gone, which is good, but also bad, stress is a bitch.

Are you talking to someone professionally about all you are dealing with? If not, you should. I know its part of the 12 step programs typically, but not 100% sure how that works.

I come from Engineers, my dad took the management path, my grandfather did not.

What I can tell you is my Dad never regretted going into management and he is very much on the spectrum so it was difficult at times because of his personality. My Grandfather always regretted not going into management.

I would say this is your opportunity, young, 9 years at one place is a long time and you are respected. I would say go for it, I went into management and hated it, but now I know. Also, I have a job where you first layer of management is typically less money then the next layer is more money....typically sometimes I make more than my boss's boss too.

Anyways, good luck, keep us updated on the job and life, sometimes just sharing everything can be very theraputic.
 
To an extent I've been an alcoholic for years, just as a way to escape my unhappiness/relationship with my wife.

Like I mentioned in this thread I think, got a lot worse months before my daughter was born. Tried going cold turkey, realized I was going to get the DT's. Came out to friends, family, and doctor the next day. Got a new therapist who is really great, started a new anxiety/depression drug, too soon to say about that. Finally found a therapist who I feel I can be fully transparent with and doesn't make me feel worse than before I talk to him...actually the complete opposite. We talked about a 12 step program, but right now we agreed that getting sleep should be critical and just to drink as little as possible. Before I would drink myself to sleep at 9, wake up in intense back pain at 3:30, drink again, wake up again in intense pain and just think about how I can't make it until night time when I can drink and sleep again. Now I only drink as a night cap literally right before going to bed, still waking up in a lot of pain most days but rarely do I think to myself "I could use a drink right now" throughout the day, and even if I do I suppress that urge very easily.

The back pain is another story, it's sporadic, sometimes certain things help, sometimes I do everything right (exercise, stretching, eating, drinking) and think I will wake up fine but I don't...sometimes I do everything wrong and I wake up fine. Spent a lot of money on office chairs and sleeping, some days it works, some days it doesn't. Bought an adjustable mattress base and I thought it was a miracle until one day it stopped working. Built a DIY mattress because I've slept on both soft & hard mattresses and nothing consistently works so every few days I'm switching out support layers, adjusting firmness/support, etc...

Anyways yeah still definitely still a long road ahead and it does help to just get it all out. In a better spot than I was 3 months ago at least. 2020 just shit all over me.

Should probably change my avatar too.
 
We have the same setup, you can advance up the tech ladder or the management ladder. Not sure how typical it is for 32 year olds to know which they want to go up but I don't. My one co-worker who I am friends with went up the tech ladder and ultimately became tech expert with no actual direct product responsibilities, basically he's a consultant for technically challenging stuff, manages design guide, etc. So he's involved in a lot of different things which is cool but at the same time doesn't do anything regarding longer term strategy, new technology, etc which I'm really drawn to.

Pretty much what you said - a lot of the people in those roles were former managers, directors, etc who weren't cutting it at managing/directing and instead got these special technical liaison/adviser roles. I'd love that role but historically you have to get promoted one step too far and then get "de-moted" to that role in a sense, and I'm not naïve, those people did have 20+ years of experience before assuming those positions...I have 9.

My dream job would be having the resources to lead technology development and mid term strategy without the stress of having to report to the friggin CTO of a multi-billion dollar company (who also came from engineering and is very capable of asking technically difficult questions - you better know your shit and be able to speak in engineering terms - something I'm not excellent at).

I'm not that much older than you and I'm running a lab (I'm a scientist, not sure what the engineer equivalent of that would be) and I report directly to the CTO. I can't speak for the culture of the company you work for vs mine, but I get left alone to do my job and she only talks to me when I seek her out for something I need her approval on (large purchase or something). I wasn't sure I was ready either, but the job was there and I went for it and I don't regret it at all.
 
Would I be hijacking this thread if I asked about career advice?

There's some old old career advice threads.

Anyways I'm going to hijack it and if I get banned for life oh well.

TL;DR - have opportunity to work for my old boss as he got promoted, I would take his old role. Wasn't crazy about his management style. Not sure I am ready for the opportunity. I am young and would be managing 11 people ranging from maybe 25 to 55 years old. In engineering you can go down the management path or the engineering path and idk which I really want.

Longer version

I work in engineering, I have been with the same company since I graduated college 9 years ago. Four years ago I worked for Bossman A who seriously opened up opportunities for me because he was a long term thinker and I was the executor. Bossman A got promoted, Bossman B became my boss reporting to Bossman A. Bossman B and I had a good relationship and we still do but his management was frustrating at times. Had to move heaven and hell to convince him to do things, bringing pace to a crawl, and felt like I could never execute what I really wanted to. The work was technology development, so think like prototypes.

I ultimately got a bit frustrated, wanted more ownership so I moved to being in charge of development projects with real deliverables, decisions and consequences (product as opposed to prototype) - kind of management-light.

This was around the time my relationship with my wife was going to shit and I just wanted to challenge myself, get uncomfortable. I am terrified of public speaking, low self esteem, etc but know I have good potential so that move was to force me to work on it.

Then COVID hit, my future ex wife got pregnant. Lot easier to be in charge of big meetings when its virtual. 2020 took a toll on my mental health for sure and 2021 probably won't be easier as we move towards separation. I am also a recovering alcoholic from 2020, shit got really bad months leading up to birth of my daughter.

The reason why I took my current role (responsibility, ownership) is slowly slipping away. It's complicated (actually due to Bossman A) but it wasn't due to my performance deficiencies. Getting that same feeling of disenfranchisement.

Anyways Bossman A got promoted to director, Bossman B got promoted, and Bossman B wants me to take his old job, so I would quite literally be responsible for executing the vision I wanted to a couple years ago.

This move was always something that was in the back of my mind - go get this product experience then come back as a manager having been on both sides of the equation. It just happened a lot quicker than I expected.

Also the group ballooned to 11 people with a recent re-org, and it's kind of a hodge podge of experience and age. I'm 32 but would be managing people anywhere from 25 to 50's. Again this isn't unheard of in engineering, some just want to be engineers for life and be able to drop work at 5pm. I would definitely be young for the role though.

This would also include likely presenting material directly to the CTO at times, the thought of which freaks me the fuck out. I have mild PTSD from bad presentations in the past. I don't mean to use the term lightly, my therapist said it, lol.

Luckily I have a good enough relationship with Bossman B so I can talk to him about all this, including the things I didn't like about his management style.

Believe it or not I've tried to trim this down like four times now.
I take a lot of calls with people that are looking at changing roles. One of the first questions I ask them is what does your preferred next step look like. What are the responsibilities of the role? Write down your ideal opportunity. If that aligns with 80% of this new opportunity go after it. If it's not quite there, say 50% overlap, it may be time to dust off that resume and look elsewhere.
 
Haha. 2020 will be the year I do that. Guys in corporate suck more than ever.
Feels good to be gone. Sometimes I feel like an interloper because I'm the new person at my new job, but yesterday was a good day with interacting with my clients. Will also be moving out of the current house I'm living after 13 years to get closer to my new job.
 
I take a lot of calls with people that are looking at changing roles. One of the first questions I ask them is what does your preferred next step look like. What are the responsibilities of the role? Write down your ideal opportunity. If that aligns with 80% of this new opportunity go after it. If it's not quite there, say 50% overlap, it may be time to dust off that resume and look elsewhere.

That sounds like a really good exercise, thanks...I thought about it in my head but never really in terms of a theoretical percentage vs ideal state. My engineering brain appreciates this.
 
Housewife! Used to be a substitute teacher, direct support professional, and paralegal, among other jobs. I was too autistic to do any of them for very long, though. Now I just volunteer, and hope to be a SAHM someday.
 
Hate to gravedig, but is there anyone on RCF that works in the parts dept of a dealership? Preferably if you use CDK.

New job as inventory control and it seems I'm out of luck when it comes to training. I'm walking into a shit show that's kept going downhill for a year or two and my inventory is beyond fucked. I've got some people in other stores that I can call for questions/help, but the idea of having someone competent train me isn't really a possibility.

Just curious if there was anyone here with some knowledge/insight.
 
I’m finishing my Masters in two months, but started job searching as I’m trying to pivot career into data analytics. I’m on my sixth and final interview with the VP for my first data analyst position, it’s tomorrow, and I am nervous as hell. Anyone who remembers the depressing thread I created in 2019 about my job situation, wanting to move back to Ohio, etc…. This is literally the final stage of that plan. Everything else has been done, now I am trying to finally establish myself in a rewarding career so I can make good money, provide for my family (daughter is due March 29), work a NORMAL schedule M-F and not hate every hour I spend at work.

Basically, if you’re into that sort of thing, say a quick prayer for me tonight. This has been a super long road. Appreciate it.
 
Retired now. Worked in the race tire industry, quality control work. Stressful because I was always worried about the tires during races, and now, retired, I don't even watch the races anymore.
 
Really thinking of starting down a career of podcasting…

Taking all these brilliant takes and endless wit and putting it out there for the world to hear….
 
Now I wait. Going to be a cat shitting razor blades the next few days.
 

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-13: "Backup Bash Brothers"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:11: "Clipping Bucks."
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