What Happened Last Night?

[DJTJ]

But last night you said the following if the Browns game was to have counted for the division…


So if it wasn’t a setup then there’s just complete incompetence running wild…

Cause indeed if that’s the case then there’s more problems than meets the eye cause that Cardinals game they got completely waxed…

In another thread, I said I slept on it.

In both games, WR got open. QB didn’t deliver the ball. It ends there.

 

[PIP]

- Mayfield is playing injured but he's still the best chance we have at the position to win.

- Mayfield holds the ball too long because 1. He's slow going through progressions (always has been a first read quarterback), and 2. He's afraid to throw picks so he can't pull the trigger easily on a tight window throw.

- Hudson needed tight end help and for whatever reason Stefanski refused to give it to him. Inexplicable IMO.

- Chubb has been playing injured for a while now (my opinion, but based on noticing that he hasn't been breaking tackles as much over the second half, roughly, of this season as he usually does). When Hunt's available to spell him it's not as noticeable, but it's there.

I won't believe that Stefanski would intentionally set Mayfield up to fail, much less the whole team. Unless the whole team was "in on it" he would lose all credibility with the players if he did such a thing. Even if they don't like Baker, they wouldn't appreciate putting their health and careers on the line in an intentionally losing cause to make some point to a guy they don't even like anyway.

I can listen to that.

But I’m sorry- either it’s a sabotage or the coach just comes out looking worse.

A cold night, your quarterback has been injured since week 2 and you’re having him continue to throw, you’re emptying out the backfield, you’re refusing to help out your young right tackle, you’re not moving the pocket.

So in this game coach basically did the following:

Allowed an injured QB to take a beating

Refuses to help a rookie right tackle

Refused to bench an ineffective QB who was not putting his team in a position to be successful while the defense was busting it’s ass for the majority of the game

Limited the use of your most dangerous weapon (Chubb)

What kinda message does this send the other players ? Hell not just the guys on defense, but just across the league in general ??

I’ve never heard a broadcast question what the hell was going quite to that degree in a game before...

That’s more than fine if people don’t want to buy into the theory that basically Stefanski threw that game yesterday — but in the event that he did not, he almost looks worse than if he had…

 

[2 For The Brew]

I can listen to that.

But I’m sorry- either it’s a sabotage or the coach just comes out looking worse.

A cold night, your quarterback has been injured since week 2 and you’re having him continue to throw, you’re emptying out the backfield, you’re refusing to help out your young right tackle, you’re not moving the pocket.

So in this game coach basically did the following:

Allowed an injured QB to take a beating

Refuses to help a rookie right tackle

Refused to bench an ineffective QB who was not putting his team in a position to be successful while the defense was busting it’s ass for the majority of the game

Limited the use of your most dangerous weapon (Chubb)

What kinda message does this send the other players ? Hell not just the guys on defense, but just across the league in general ??

I’ve never heard a broadcast question what the hell was going quite to that degree in a game before...

That’s more than fine if people don’t want to buy into the theory that basically Stefanski threw that game yesterday — but in the event that he did not, he almost looks worse than if he had…

Living in Philly I wish that, for this one game, Cleveland had the equivalent of the Philly media, which is a combination of ruthless sharks out for blood and gore, idiotic opinions, and some sharp analysis & investigative reporting that would actually unearth some useful information about what the hell was going on out there.

This was the first season in the 21 years I’ve been married to an rabid Eagles fan that I was sure I had the better team. Instead the Eagles are going to the playoffs and the Browns look like a carton of eggs that Luka Doncic sat on.

I have a lot of confidence in Andrew Berry and the front office in general.

I don’t see how KS and BM can both return next year. That relationship appears to be broken beyond repair. There are several teams looking for a QB so I suspect BM will be traded, but I don’t think it will be easy to get even an average QB to replace him.

 

[daddywags]

I can listen to that.

But I’m sorry- either it’s a sabotage or the coach just comes out looking worse.

A cold night, your quarterback has been injured since week 2 and you’re having him continue to throw, you’re emptying out the backfield, you’re refusing to help out your young right tackle, you’re not moving the pocket.

So in this game coach basically did the following:

Allowed an injured QB to take a beating

Refuses to help a rookie right tackle

Refused to bench an ineffective QB who was not putting his team in a position to be successful while the defense was busting it’s ass for the majority of the game

Limited the use of your most dangerous weapon (Chubb)

What kinda message does this send the other players ? Hell not just the guys on defense, but just across the league in general ??

I’ve never heard a broadcast question what the hell was going quite to that degree in a game before...

That’s more than fine if people don’t want to buy into the theory that basically Stefanski threw that game yesterday — but in the event that he did not, he almost looks worse than if he had…

Two points to consider in response -

1. Stefanski called a lot of quick throw plays which should have worked except: his quarterback refused to cut loose and let it fly unless his quick read was completely open (afraid to pull the trigger on tight window throws), and he couldn't adjust properly to the linemen reaching to bat balls down. This led to multiple batted balls and sacks. If the game plan had been properly executed by 6 it should have been fine. And he has shown in the past the ability to execute those plays. For some reason he was not willing or able to do it last night.

2. Chubb has been playing injured which is why they've kept his work load down, especially in first halves, lately.

I agree that we should have run the ball more and that Stefanski's refusal to go away from the game plan to give Hudson help was inexcusable. That's on him.

 

[Steve_424]

Stefanski lost the game. If this was the first time Nick Chubb stood on the sideline during a key situation I'd maybe believe he was hurt or Stefanski was playing some sort of game to prove a point. But I'm old enough to remember the Browns being at midfield against Green Bay on Christmas with the season on the line, three timeouts in their pocket...and Chubb never seeing the field again.

Aside from completely losing the locker room and letting Baker dictate how they handled his injuries instead of the coaching staff or a collaboration, the abysmal playcalling and personnel devision-making has been absolutely mindboggling.

 

[Steve_424]

Chubb has been playing injured which is why they've kept his work load down, especially in first halves, lately.

Chubb had no injury designation coming into the game and the team said he wasn't hurt at halftime. And it's not the first time we've questioned his usage this year. I'm just saying.

But let's say he really is banged up...Johnson is a capable runner too. Still, you ran the ball 17 times and passed 38. What kind of gameplan is that when you have a QB that is clearly struggling and facing the 30th ranked run D?

 

[Los216]

Conspiracy theory alert

Stefanski and Berry knew this game was a Manning game. They know Jimmy thinks the Mannings are football gods. They wanted the Mannings to say how shitty Baker looked in efforts to get Jimmy to sign off on ridding them of Baker.

Holy shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lololololololololololololololol

 

[PIP]

Two points to consider in response -

1. Stefanski called a lot of quick throw plays which should have worked except: his quarterback refused to cut loose and let it fly unless his quick read was completely open (afraid to pull the trigger on tight window throws), and he couldn't adjust properly to the linemen reaching to bat balls down. This led to multiple batted balls and sacks. If the game plan had been properly executed by 6 it should have been fine. And he has shown in the past the ability to execute those plays. For some reason he was not willing or able to do it last night.

2. Chubb has been playing injured which is why they've kept his work load down, especially in first halves, lately.

I agree that we should have run the ball more and that Stefanski's refusal to go away from the game plan to give Hudson help was inexcusable. That's on him.

That’s a fair point. But I guess the point I’m trying to make with that is why don’t you bench the guy for ineffectiveness since the guy you keep putting out there is not getting it done ?

You’re trotting out a guy who is clearly not executing the game plan. Whether it’s quick hitters, or just missing open targets down field, a good game plan or poor game plan… At some point it has to register with the coach that it’s simply not working.

 

[PIP]

Chubb had no injury designation coming into the game and the team said he wasn't hurt at halftime. And it's not the first time we've questioned his usage this year. I'm just saying.

But let's say he really is banged up...Johnson is a capable runner too. Still, you ran the ball 17 times and passed 38. What kind of gameplan is that when you have a QB that is clearly struggling and facing the 30th ranked run D?

Right… You basically threw the ball 40 times. Cold night (receivers dropping some)— offensive line getting destroyed…Passes continuously getting batted down— a QB that cannot handle a pass rush…

The fact that they continued going to Baker— continued going with that same plan and protection just seems so bizarre…

The fact Baker after the game basically said he has to look out for himself and do what’s best for him suggests they’re not on the same page…. Neither guy has any trust in the other…. My fear with that is Stefanski losing the entire team and not just his QB…

We saw someone like JJ3 come out with the RUN THE BALL tweet last week…

It may or may not be true but I think Stefanski has lost a lot of the respect of that locker room over the last few weeks…

 

[daddywags]

Chubb had no injury designation coming into the game and the team said he wasn't hurt at halftime. And it's not the first time we've questioned his usage this year. I'm just saying.

But let's say he really is banged up...Johnson is a capable runner too. Still, you ran the ball 17 times and passed 38. What kind of gameplan is that when you have a QB that is clearly struggling and facing the 30th ranked run D?

I agreed that we should have run the ball more.

 

[daddywags]

That’s a fair point. But I guess the point I’m trying to make with that is why don’t you bench the guy for ineffectiveness since the guy you keep putting out there is not getting it done ?

You’re trotting out a guy who is clearly not executing the game plan. Whether it’s quick hitters, or just missing open targets down field, a good game plan or poor game plan… At some point it has to register with the coach that it’s simply not working.

Maybe he froze or maybe he just honestly believed that Mayfield would correct his mistakes as the game went on and he (should have) realized he needed to get rid of the ball quickly no matter what.

I'm not in a "Stefanski can do no wrong" camp. He can and he does, and he did yesterday - not giving Hudson help at least when it became obvious he was being abused, not calling more running plays. But I don't like to attribute bad intentions to people I don't know when their actions can reasonably be explained IMO otherwise.

 

[bob2the2nd]

Chubb had no injury designation coming into the game and the team said he wasn't hurt at halftime. And it's not the first time we've questioned his usage this year. I'm just saying.

But let's say he really is banged up...Johnson is a capable runner too. Still, you ran the ball 17 times and passed 38. What kind of gameplan is that when you have a QB that is clearly struggling and facing the 30th ranked run D?

I would have believed Chubb was injured before the Packers game. Absolutely 100%, he had several games he just seemed off coming back from COVID. But that packers game he just churned out yards, he was back to the Chubb of old. I have no idea what the hell happened yesterday but its absolutely clear that KS was either lying to the press at half time or lying to the press at the end of the game. As has been mentioned this isnt the first time we have questioned Chubb's usage and at this point I dont really care of the excuse.

At the very least KS needs to remove himself completely from the offense. Doesnt get a say in the scheme, doesnt get a say in the play calls. He needs to focus on being a head coach (and there is a ton to clean up). that said if the browns fire him today I dont really care.

 

[bob2the2nd]

Maybe he froze or maybe he just honestly believed that Mayfield would correct his mistakes as the game went on and he (should have) realized he needed to get rid of the ball quickly no matter what.

I'm not in a "Stefanski can do no wrong" camp. He can and he does, and he did yesterday - not giving Hudson help at least when it became obvious he was being abused, not calling more running plays. But I don't like to attribute bad intentions to people I don't know when their actions can reasonably be explained IMO otherwise.

i agree with that last statement, i dont think he was intentionally trying to run the team into the ground. However its a known issue that Baker requires surgery and has been subpar for most of the season. Furthermore the best play makers on the team are at RB. So where the fuck were the RBs? Hunt was a late scratch and Chubb was apparently injured, but wasnt announced till after the game? If you are trying to win, go try and win. If you are trying to lose go pull your fucking starters.

I think he absolutely got caught in a middle ground of not sure if he was trying to win or not and almost got people killed.

 

[PIP]

Also keep in mind Chubb was sitting there on the bench cause he was allegedly injured —something with his ribs..

I understand Chubb is still an investment moving forward…

Baker has been injured since week 2. Needs surgery…That game yesterday had zero implications about making the playoffs.

They’re not investing in Baker beyond this season and that was telling last night.

 

[Douglar]

Maybe I should have included this as an option: Stefanski was driving the tank to get a top 10 pick next spring.

Argument for that is pretty self evident. The argument against it is that I can't believe that Stefanski would risk losing the team and hurting Mayfield. He just doesn't seem like the type. And I wouldn't expect a tank job to look so much like an accompilation of Stefanski's biggest short comings in one big shit show. Seems like an intentional tank job would look more experimental.