Who Was the Last Roman?

[Sebastian]

Well? @The Human Q-Tip

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I go with Constantine XI. Went out like he should have, and the last remnant of Rome died when he did.

 

[Sebastian]

I go with Constantine XI. Went out like he should have, and the last remnant of Rome died when he did.

The literal and figurative argument!

I got into a debate with someone who said Rome died with the last Western Emperor and that the Byzantine Empire was not Roman.

Very old school argument. But it does beg the question of what being a Roman actually meant.

And also, who can forget the greatest commander of crack legions.

 

[Randolphkeys]

No love for the Medici, Doge, Sforza, or Este families keeping the Italian city states alive after Constantine XI?

Or... the Pope today?

Mostly just posing a question. Hard to argue against Constantine XI.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

No love for the Medici, Doge, Sforza, or Este families keeping the Italian city states alive after Constantine XI?

Or... the Pope today?

Mostly just posing a question. Hard to argue against Constantine XI.

Constantine XI was such a boss. Much better way to go out than the whimper of Augustulus or whomever else might be considered the last Western Emperor.

 

[Sebastian]

Constantine XI was such a boss. Much better way to go out than the whimper of Augustulus or whomever else might be considered the last Western Emperor.

Yeah 'Lil Romulus was a figurehead only. And actually a usurper.

Julilus Nepos was the recognized Emperor and he lingered in Dalmatia until 480 when he was murdered.

The last Western Emperor of note was the great Majorian (457-461) who came within an ace of restoring the West... until he tried to raise taxes and he was murdered for his trouble.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Constantine XI was such a boss. Much better way to go out than the whimper of Augustulus or whomever else might be considered the last Western Emperor.

I do teach the Medieval period. I agree with you from a nationality standpoint. The fall of Constantinople to the unexpected might of cannons is the correct answer.

But what if we shift the definition to economic influence? The Papacy is still wealthy and owns land, still influential, still and international political force.

 

[Sebastian]

No love for the Medici, Doge, Sforza, or Este families keeping the Italian city states alive after Constantine XI?

Or... the Pope today?

Mostly just posing a question. Hard to argue against Constantine XI.

The Pope is an interesting thought.

According to Roman law, he has completely usurped the prerogatives of the Emperor. The Pope was only supposed to be the chief priest who could never wield temporal power. It was the Emperor who was God's Regent on Earth and who had the final say in religious matters. Justinian used to follow the Patriarch of Constantinople and give sermons after his Hagia Sophia was built.

Following the loss of Rome by the Byzantines in the 750s, the Popes started accumulating power that was the Emperor's as a counter-balance against the usurpation of the Eastern Throne by a woman, Zoe I think. And then they decided they enjoyed the power and cast off all allegiance to the Emperor in Constantinople.

So the Pope is both the foremost relic of the Roman Empire, and a prime component in the undermining of the Empire for their own, and Italy's, purposes.

I still consider them usurpers.

THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO THE RED SHOES!!!

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

What's with this poll? Mr. Polanski obviously existed after everyone else on this list.

@Lee

 

[Sebastian]

Oh nice, someone chose Julian.

That is actually an argument from a cultural point of view.

Rome was built by pagans. The Empire was a place of tolerance for religions and following the principate a mixed Greco-Latin culture that was the dominant culture amongst many.

The adoption of Christianity displaced that cultural tradition and fundamentally changed the Empire into a theocracy.

Julian was the last Pagan Emperor and the last Emperor of the Greco-Latin literary and high culture tradition.

Someone alive during the time of Augustus would recognize the Empire of Dioclese. But would a person recognize the Empire if they were born during Constantine's reign and died under Theodosius?

 

[Randolphkeys]

So the Pope is both the foremost relic of the Roman Empire, and a prime component in the undermining of the Empire for their own, and Italy's, purposes.

I could also make an argument, mostly as a Devil's Advocate, that of Constantine I considered himself both an Emperor and highest Archbishop of the Eastern Roman Empire then we can agree the arrangement made between Charlemagne and Pope Leo III essentially re-ignited the "Roman Empire" as a dual-led Empire, uniting the Papacy's desire for wealth and influence with the military might of the Franks.

So in some ways, even as the King of France loses military might, he was simply the government wing of the Papacy's vast influence.

 

[Lee]

What's with this poll? Mr. Polanski obviously existed after everyone else on this list.

@Lee

This one was not so strong, an embarrassment to dad jokes honestly. First, try and leave pedophiles out of your dad jokes, this includes anyone that might have represented subway at one time. Plus Roman Pulanski is what 90 years old? There are other semi famous people named Roman who are younger.

3/10

Maybe the joke to be made is if Rome was actually built in a day, would we even have this conversation?

 

[Sebastian]

I could also make an argument, mostly as a Devil's Advocate, that of Constantine I considered himself both an Emperor and highest Archbishop of the Eastern Roman Empire then we can agree the arrangement made between Charlemagne and Pope Leo III essentially re-ignited the "Roman Empire" as a dual-led Empire, uniting the Papacy's desire for wealth and influence with the military might of the Franks.

So in some ways, even as the King of France loses military might, he was simply the government wing of the Papacy's vast influence.

To quote Linda Richman, the Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, Roman nor an Empire.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

This one was not so strong, an embarrassment to dad jokes honestly. First, try and leave pedophiles out of your dad jokes, this includes anyone that might have represented subway at one time. Plus Roman Pulanski is what 90 years old? There are other semi famous people named Roman who are younger.

3/10

Maybe the joke to be made is if Rome was actually built in a day, would we even have this conversation?

Gotta give that a 0/10... or a number higher than 10 to avoid the wandering eyes of Roman Polanski.

 

[Randolphkeys]

To quote Linda Richman, the Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, Roman nor an Empire.

So, before anyone proceeds - is Amazon an "empire"?