Will the Real Baker Mayfield Please Stand Up?

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Amherstcavsfan

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Here's the problem:

Baker is a capable, good NFL QB. The bigger question to me is can he lead a team to a Super Bowl win? I'm not sure yet. I think he's leaving SOME plays on the field, but I think ultimately he's doing more good than bad. You can point to a few throws and positions where he is a less than optimal QB. But I also see an elite QB in some other areas.

I disagree that Baker cannot make anticipation throws. I don't think he's good at anticipation throws that require good timing or quick post snap reads. That's something that can change with more time in the system and quality coaching.

I think we'll know, mostly, by the end of the year, if Baker will be worth his 2nd contract. And I feel like it's trending towards he'll be worth it.
 

The Human Q-Tip

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This whole "be happy with where things are right now because we've all seen how much worse they can be" just has never made sense to me.
I think the point of all that is that we should remember how truly difficult it is to acquire a franchise QB. We tried as had as we could -- unsuccessfully -- for more than a decade and a half, with no success. So we'd better be damn sure there is a clear path to a better QB before ditching the one we have.

And just on Baker...I just don't think some guys are giving enough consideration to the difficulty of having 4 HC and 3 OC in two and a half seasons. I think what we're seeing with Jeff Allen is reinforcing the previously understood concept that QB's sometimes take a few years to hit their stride. We will have a much better idea of how well he's developing by the time we have to make that decision on his 5th year, when he's had a full season in this offense.
 

Los216

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You said after this offseason, not next. And we'll have to make the decision on Baker's 5th year this offseason, before knowing if Wentz is available the year after. So scratch him off. Also, that out is basically the Eagles choosing to get out from under that contract. And if the Eagles aren't willing to pay the guy $20-25M/year at that time, after all the guaranteed money and bonuses have already been paid...why should we?



Well, regardless of what has been "widely speculated", Carr has been tearing it up for the Raiders this season, and I can't see Gruden ditching a quarterback who is playing that well. And if he isn't playing that well...why would we want him?
If you trade for Carson Wentz this offseason and then cut him before the new league year in March of 2022 you'll only owe him $24M. That's why I said it's like an expiring contract. You won't owe him a lot of money.

And if you're gonna question why should we get any of these QB's without ignoring the whole premise of the debate which is options other than Baker Mayfield then I don't know what to tell you.

You act like Baker Mayfield is an All Pro and I'm saying we should cut him and just replace him with anybody. All I'm doing is looking at the list of available QB's and potentially available QB's and laying out their contracts and their status should any of them become options if Baker Mayfield is not the options.

If every single time I do that you question it then just say that you believe in Baker Mayfield and that we shouldn't worry about potentially looking for another QB after this season. You don't have to agree with me but why question me for just showing the different paths to other options available?
 

Los216

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Here's the problem:

Baker is a capable, good NFL QB. The bigger question to me is can he lead a team to a Super Bowl win? I'm not sure yet. I think he's leaving SOME plays on the field, but I think ultimately he's doing more good than bad. You can point to a few throws and positions where he is a less than optimal QB. But I also see an elite QB in some other areas.

I disagree that Baker cannot make anticipation throws. I don't think he's good at anticipation throws that require good timing or quick post snap reads. That's something that can change with more time in the system and quality coaching.

I think we'll know, mostly, by the end of the year, if Baker will be worth his 2nd contract. And I feel like it's trending towards he'll be worth it.
I don't think the needle has really moved at all with Baker so far this season. The only real noticeable difference is our overall team record. I think the team being 4-1 is actually what's making a lot of people lean towards wanting to keep Baker and not actually his play. If you base it strictly off his play and not our record I don't see how you can make an argument one extreme way or the other. Looks the same to me which if that holds up for the remainder of the season, I believe that makes the whole situation worse. Then you really have to gamble on him playing on a prove year deal and I don't wanna see that.
 

Bob_The_Cat

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I think the point of all that is that we should remember how truly difficult it is to acquire a franchise QB. We tried as had as we could -- unsuccessfully -- for more than a decade and a half, with no success. So we'd better be damn sure there is a clear path to a better QB before ditching the one we have.

And just on Baker...I just don't think some guys are giving enough consideration to the difficulty of having 4 HC and 3 OC in two and a half seasons. I think what we're seeing with Jeff Allen is reinforcing the previously understood concept that QB's sometimes take a few years to hit their stride. We will have a much better idea of how well he's developing by the time we have to make that decision on his 5th year, when he's had a full season in this offense.
I don’t disagree with what you said in regards to the Browns, but that doesn’t mean we allow the ineptitude of past regimes to dictate or have any influence at all over what we do in the present and the future. That just doesn’t make any sense.

The Browns now have arguably the OL in football, (when healthy) the best RB duo in the league, and a top 5 WR duo. Aside from building depth, we really don’t have any moves to make on the offensive side of the ball. The question is what’s acceptable/expected out of a QB with that type of supporting cast? It’s hard to pin down, but it’s not as simple as “we’re winning and we haven’t been in the past so don’t rock the boat.”

The defense has issues, but I expect those to be addressed in the offseason. Unless the defense becomes elite next year, Baker can’t just be Joe Flacco. He’s going to have to go out and win us some games. Right now I’m not convinced he can do it. That’s not to say he won’t be able to do it by the end of the year, just that if I look at the first 5 games of this season I can’t say I’d be confident with Having to rely on Baker carrying the team or getting it done in a late game situation.
 

The Human Q-Tip

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That’s not to say he won’t be able to do it by the end of the year, just that if I look at the first 5 games of this season I can’t say I’d be confident with Having to rely on Baker carrying the team or getting it done in a late game situation.
I'm not either. But I'm also not sure it is reasonable to expect to acquire a QB in whom you are confident that he can carry the team. A lot of very good QB's have failed to carry their team in some games. Some do it more often than others. This season, there hasn't really been a single game in which he's been asked to carry the team late because it hasn't been necessary: I blowout loss, and 4 good-sized leads.

So I guess I'd put it this way: I don't need to feel confident that he can bring us back late against a good team. I just don't want to be in a situation where we have a QB who I'm confident can't do that.

I'm willing to live in the white-knuckle ground of uncertainty unless something better falls into our laps.
 

Lee

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Why do you think Carson Wentz or Derek Carr will be available? Wentz was signed just last year to a massive contract that makes him basically untradeable cap-wise, and why would the Raiders not re-sign Carr?

Other than that, I can't imagine passing up Baker's option to sign one of those other guys. It's just change for the sake of change.
Exactly my point, Wilsons or Mahommes never become available, Brees wasn't brees yet AND he was damaged goods, Brady didn't hit the market till he was 100 years old...Payton years ago hit the market as damaged goods, but was looking for something specific.

And even then, that is like what? Once every 3 or 4 years? And before you say Cam, he was so good he took what the vet min and the opportunity to compete since no one was really offering him a starting job?

I just don't see how Baker isn't our qb of the future, he has been decent, and decent qb's usually don't hit the open market so doubtful we don't find a replacement without a ton of warts
 

Vee-Rex

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I don’t disagree with what you said in regards to the Browns, but that doesn’t mean we allow the ineptitude of past regimes to dictate or have any influence at all over what we do in the present and the future. That just doesn’t make any sense.

The Browns now have arguably the OL in football, (when healthy) the best RB duo in the league, and a top 5 WR duo. Aside from building depth, we really don’t have any moves to make on the offensive side of the ball. The question is what’s acceptable/expected out of a QB with that type of supporting cast? It’s hard to pin down, but it’s not as simple as “we’re winning and we haven’t been in the past so don’t rock the boat.”

The defense has issues, but I expect those to be addressed in the offseason. Unless the defense becomes elite next year, Baker can’t just be Joe Flacco. He’s going to have to go out and win us some games. Right now I’m not convinced he can do it. That’s not to say he won’t be able to do it by the end of the year, just that if I look at the first 5 games of this season I can’t say I’d be confident with Having to rely on Baker carrying the team or getting it done in a late game situation.
That's fair. However, if we're going to rock the boat, let's do it for something better than an inflatable tire tube in the ocean. Because that's what it would be if we're pulling in someone like Haskins or Darnold.

And it's also not worth rocking the boat for an identical boat, or something that appears to be marginally better from within our boat, but when you ditch your boat and swim over the shark-infested waters to the boat you saw perform well 5 years ago, you see that there is a hole in the bottom.
 

Sebastian

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If you trade for Carson Wentz this offseason and then cut him before the new league year in March of 2022 you'll only owe him $24M. That's why I said it's like an expiring contract. You won't owe him a lot of money.

And if you're gonna question why should we get any of these QB's without ignoring the whole premise of the debate which is options other than Baker Mayfield then I don't know what to tell you.

You act like Baker Mayfield is an All Pro and I'm saying we should cut him and just replace him with anybody. All I'm doing is looking at the list of available QB's and potentially available QB's and laying out their contracts and their status should any of them become options if Baker Mayfield is not the options.

If every single time I do that you question it then just say that you believe in Baker Mayfield and that we shouldn't worry about potentially looking for another QB after this season. You don't have to agree with me but why question me for just showing the different paths to other options available?
Oh, Los.
 

Los216

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I'm this close to buying Baker's jersey. I can't do it unless I know he's gonna be that dude for years to come. I want him to be our guy but I'm not going to lie to myself and wish it into reality. I'm calling it like I see it with him. I hope he can prove me wrong. I'll buy his jersey and wear it every Sunday if he does.
 

Los216

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That's fair. However, if we're going to rock the boat, let's do it for something better than an inflatable tire tube in the ocean. Because that's what it would be if we're pulling in someone like Haskins or Darnold.

And it's also not worth rocking the boat for an identical boat, or something that appears to be marginally better from within our boat, but when you ditch your boat and swim over the shark-infested waters to the boat you saw perform well 5 years ago, you see that there is a hole in the bottom.
It might depend on how the team views certain QB's. Some guys just look better in certain systems. Baker looked horrible in Todd Monken offense but Jamies Winston looked good in it. Some guys just look better in different systems. I'm sure that will eliminate a lot of potential replacements. Then there's always going to be guys who you can get to play right into your system with good coaching which I do believe we finally have here.
 

Lee

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That's fair. However, if we're going to rock the boat, let's do it for something better than an inflatable tire tube in the ocean. Because that's what it would be if we're pulling in someone like Haskins or Darnold.

And it's also not worth rocking the boat for an identical boat, or something that appears to be marginally better from within our boat, but when you ditch your boat and swim over the shark-infested waters to the boat you saw perform well 5 years ago, you see that there is a hole in the bottom.
But when you see that hole, you then stick your dingy in that hole and yell "Man overboard" as your boat begins to sink.

…..wait where are we going with this analogy again?
 

Amherstcavsfan

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I don't think the needle has really moved at all with Baker so far this season. The only real noticeable difference is our overall team record. I think the team being 4-1 is actually what's making a lot of people lean towards wanting to keep Baker and not actually his play. If you base it strictly off his play and not our record I don't see how you can make an argument one extreme way or the other. Looks the same to me which if that holds up for the remainder of the season, I believe that makes the whole situation worse. Then you really have to gamble on him playing on a prove year deal and I don't wanna see that.
It's fine if you say he "looks the same", but really he clearly doesn't. Outside of game 1 and the 2nd half of Indy, he's been accurate, efficient and he's starting to stick in the pocket a little more.

A little bit of work (arm slot, go faster through reads, pocket movement) and he'll be a top 10 QB IMO.
 

Out of the Rafters at the Q

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I'm this close to buying Baker's jersey. I can't do it unless I know he's gonna be that dude for years to come. I want him to be our guy but I'm not going to lie to myself and wish it into reality. I'm calling it like I see it with him. I hope he can prove me wrong. I'll buy his jersey and wear it every Sunday if he does.
How many Wiggins jerseys are you going to have to get rid of in order to make room? :chuckle:
 
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