Isaac 3 & D Okoro - A Two Way Playing Basketball Savant

[Randolphkeys]

I am guessing we are underwhelmed by what we are getting for Sexton.

I think we get a much, much better offer for Sexton if he can prove he can score 18-20 off the bench in a super sub type roll instead of scoring 24 starting as an undersized ball stopping sg.

Someone mentioned the underwhelming trade we got for Ricky Davis who we kept probably a year to long. I dont think Sexton is Ricky Davis bad, but he isnt far off and is being played out of position and we need to prove to other teams he is more than an offensive stopping undersized SG to get anything. I say bring Sexton off the bench to IMPROVE his trade value.

At this point, I'm wondering if the front office has a grasp on NBA values. His obsession with undersized scoring guards is just out of whack.

When Koby took over, the roster was flush with defensively versatile players with value around the league. He had no problem shaking things up for a roster overhaul.

Now that he needs a specific type of player, he is extremely gun shy.

 

[Douglar]

Seemed like a good time for a thread rename.

 

[inliner311]

At this point, I'm wondering if the front office has a grasp on NBA values. When Koby took over, the roster was flush with defensively versatile players with value around the league. He had no problem shaking things up for a roster overhaul.

Now that he needs a specific type of player, he is extremely gun shy.

Koby seems to have a better hit rate than Chris Grant but the roster make up is oddly similar. I think it's easier to scout guards and bigs, the attributes that make them transition to the NBA are easier to identify.

I think Koby has been scared to not hit on a draft pick which is why he hasn't made many picks outside the top 8. I also think you just got to take alot of shots at wings to hit on them. Their skill set can vary alot and it's harder to figure out exactly what will help them transition to being a good NBA player.

 

[Cavatt]

Koby seems to have a better hit rate than Chris Grant but the roster make up is oddly similar. I think it's easier to scout guards and bigs, the attributes that make them transition to the NBA are easier to identify.

I think Koby has been scared to not hit on a draft pick which is why he hasn't made many picks outside the top 8. I also think you just got to take alot of shots at wings to hit on them. Their skill set can vary alot and it's harder to figure out exactly what will help them transition to being a good NBA player.

Really though he only passed on Mikal and MPJ. Maybe Bridges, but I'd rather have Sexton. Mikal or starting your rebuild with MPJ who you had no idea when or if he could return to play was too big a gamble.

Wasn't a good wing draft until this last one and they had to take Mobley.

I don't think he is obsessed with Small guards, Hunter was just off the board when we chose Garland.

If I had known KPJ was going to flame out like that and we would get nothing for him I would have taken Haliburton.

Koby hasn't had great luck and he hasn't had many opportunities to draft a SF. You can say Keldon Johnson, but NBA fans like KPJ more than him, so...

Windler's broken leg, the bad luck with wings goes on and on

 

[daytripper]

As long as JBB is here then Okoro will get alot of minutes regardless if he starts or not. I don't think a sophisticated offensive coach would be giving Okoro a bunch of minutes but the roster is going to dictate it. Unfortunately the roster, outside of Mobley's potential, is littered with players that only play one end of the floor. No starting SF on the roster either. It's going to be some patchwork and lineup shuffling.

Now with Sexton entering RFA I don't think they can pull the rug out and move him to the bench either. I'm excited about Mobley's potential but Koby may have done a shitty job again putting this roster together.

 

[inliner311]

Really though he only passed on Mikal and MPJ. Maybe Bridges, but I'd rather have Sexton. Mikal or starting your rebuild with MPJ who you had no idea when or if he could return to play was too big a gamble.

Wasn't a good wing draft until this last one and they had to take Mobley.

I don't think he is obsessed with Small guards, Hunter was just off the board when we chose Garland.

If I had known KPJ was going to flame out like that and we would get nothing for him I would have taken Haliburton.

Koby hasn't had great luck and he hasn't had many opportunities to draft a SF. You can say Keldon Johnson, but NBA fans like KPJ more than him, so...

Windler's broken leg, the bad luck with wings goes on and on

Koby is sitting on alot of 2nd round picks. He could move into the last 2 drafts to try to get more wing depth. He can't just rely on top 8 picks to build out this roster through the draft. Injuries and guys busting out happens to every team, he could have had a better crop of players behind them to develop instead of cycling through g-league and unsigned players.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Really though he only passed on Mikal and MPJ. Maybe Bridges, but I'd rather have Sexton. Mikal or starting your rebuild with MPJ who you had no idea when or if he could return to play was too big a gamble.

Wasn't a good wing draft until this last one and they had to take Mobley.

I don't think he is obsessed with Small guards, Hunter was just off the board when we chose Garland.

If I had known KPJ was going to flame out like that and we would get nothing for him I would have taken Haliburton.

Koby hasn't had great luck and he hasn't had many opportunities to draft a SF. You can say Keldon Johnson, but NBA fans like KPJ more than him, so...

Windler's broken leg, the bad luck with wings goes on and on

I'm not going to pretend it's easy to lure small forwards to a bad team in a cold weather city. I think back to Moe Harkless signing for the veteran minimum with Miami last season - no real spot in the rotation - when the Cavs had the MLE sitting there, practically unused.

But saying Koby didn't have the chance to get small forwards in the draft or elsewhere isn't accurate. Four years and you can't target one guy who fits a physical profile aside from Dylan Windler and UDFAs? You can't finagle an extra second rounder somewhere? Four years is too long a span of time.

 

[Man Called X]

I'm not going to pretend it's easy to lure small forwards to a bad team in a cold weather city. I think back to Moe Harkless signing for the veteran minimum with Miami last season - no real spot in the rotation - when the Cavs had the MLE sitting there, practically unused.

But saying Koby didn't have the chance to get small forwards in the draft or elsewhere isn't accurate. Four years and you can't target one guy who fits a physical profile aside from Dylan Windler and UDFAs? You can't finagle an extra second rounder somewhere? Four years is too long a span of time.

I need the Cavs to start treating wings the way Toronto does. Draft another high upside raw prospect every year and spend some time developing them. Our G League team is in town now. Draft and develop. At least every other year. The way the wing position has been treated by this organization has been criminal.

But nope, we're gonna keep pretending LeBron is just gonna walk through the door again.

 

[Cavatt]

I'm not going to pretend it's easy to lure small forwards to a bad team in a cold weather city. I think back to Moe Harkless signing for the veteran minimum with Miami last season - no real spot in the rotation - when the Cavs had the MLE sitting there, practically unused.

But saying Koby didn't have the chance to get small forwards in the draft or elsewhere isn't accurate. Four years and you can't target one guy who fits a physical profile aside from Dylan Windler and UDFAs? You can't finagle an extra second rounder somewhere? Four years is too long a span of time.

He spent 4 2nd rounders on wing that he had to give up for nada. He drafted a guy who had Never had a significant injury that has been hurt for 3 years.

Cedi also looked like a perfectly good backup and then had a career low year.

I want a Desmond Bane on our team too.

 

[Randolphkeys]

He spent 4 2nd rounders on wing that he had to give up for nada. He drafted a guy who had Never had a significant injury that has been hurt for 3 years.

Cedi also looked like a perfectly good backup and then had a career low year.

I want a Desmond Bane on our team too.

So we have to pretend Kevin Porter Jr. was a small forward in this scenario? He's a guard, always will be.

Look, I get why they gave him a try, but I had worries before that draft about how he would deal with the Cavaliers behind closed doors if he couldn't handle USC's drama.

I liked the Windler pick and crazy enough, I still do... we just needed to take more shots like that one on a guy who can truly play the position.

 

[inliner311]

I need the Cavs to start treating wings the way Toronto does. Draft another high upside raw prospect every year and spend some time developing them. Our G League team is in town now. Draft and develop. At least every other year. The way the wing position has been treated by this organization has been criminal.

But nope, we're gonna keep pretending LeBron is just gonna walk through the door again.

I also think the draft strategy that Koby has used with the top 8 picks most likely won't work for wings. The wide variety of skill sets that wings can have and how those skills translates from college to the NBA are harder to determine. The strategy needs to be more quantity over evaluating and singling in on a single quality prospect. There is so many more variables with a wing and if their skill set can translate.

So often a single skill set can make a wing prospect look good in college but that skill isn't elite enough when they get to the NBA so they bust.

 

[Cavatt]

So we have to pretend Kevin Porter Jr. was a small forward in this scenario? He's a guard, always will be.

Look, I get why they gave him a try, but I had worries before that draft about how he would deal with the Cavaliers behind closed doors if he couldn't handle USC's drama.

I liked the Windler pick and crazy enough, I still do... we just needed to take more shots like that one on a guy who can truly play the position.

They aren't ignoring the position. It hasn't worked out, but it isn't the same as ignoring it.

They got Cedi the year Lebron left, drafted Sexton with the only pick they had left, Used 4 picks on a SG with length, Drafted another SF in the same draft, and then Drafted another wing who was sold as a SF, but might be a SG. They also got Prince in a trade. They felt getting Rubio was more valuable than Prince and I agree. He has 1/10 of Rubio's IQ.

I get your point KPJ is a SG, but if we had him and Windler healthy we wouldn't be having his convo.

It's bad luck, but there is a really low hit rate on Sf's. It's just the way it is. They used 7 draft picks in the last 3 years on wings in the draft and trades. 1 is broken, one was traded for nada, 1 was traded for Rubio, one is apparently a SG.

You are mad because you can't trade Collin for a starting level SF. Sorry none are available.

 

[Nphan]

Damn dude is looking bad out there. Bust watch at this point.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I need the Cavs to start treating wings the way Toronto does. Draft another high upside raw prospect every year and spend some time developing them.

The Raptors didn't draft any SF's in 2018, 2019, or 2020. They drafted OG at No. 23 in 2017, and then Barnes at No. 4 this year. They also drafted Delanto Banton at No. 46 this year, but we have no idea if he's any good. Until this year, we'd drafted as many SF's as Toronto has, and we could have had Barnes instead of Mobley if we'd wanted.

 

[Randolphkeys]

You are mad because you can't trade Collin for a starting level SF. Sorry none are available.

Easy now, we all know you aren't a mind reader and it isn't your strength around here. I also am not looking for anything to be personal, I just know KPJ has never played small forward.

Every draft, I have discussed wings with small forward length available in the late 1st early 2nd. Cavs would have done well to get back into the draft for one or two. That's it.