Will the real Isaac Okoro please stand up

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Cavatt

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Have you heard anything about his attitude, work ethic, off court issues, etc? If he had a Sexton type of mentality/work ethic, I think the pick is a no-brainer (assuming no one else scoops him up.)

The only other thing I'm reading/looking at as a potential issue is lack of elite wingspan... If we want him to guard 1-3 (or even 4 in spurts), I'm not sure a 6'8 3/4" wingspan is ideal (but also isn't so bad that its a deal-breaker).

Yeah word is he is cut from the same mold. Super hard worker constantly working on his weaknesses. I know Sexton is known as sort of a weirdo/monomaniac. Okoro has the work ethic, but also his teammates reportedly love him.

He was a 4 star not 5 star recruit. Ranked 36 out of college Freshman and played his way into the top 10. He is also super loyal. He played for Auburn because they were the first ones to show interest and he rebuffed offers after that. Odds of him sticking with Cleveland are high.

 

Randolphkeys

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Yeah word is he is cut from the same mold. Super hard worker constantly working on his weaknesses. I know Sexton is known as sort of a weirdo/monomaniac. Okoro has the work ethic, but also his teammates reportedly love him.

He was a 4 star not 5 star recruit. Ranked 36 out of college Freshman and played his way into the top 10. He is also super loyal. He played for Auburn because they were the first ones to show interest and he rebuffed offers after that. Odds of him sticking with Cleveland are high.


I had him in my top 5 during the college season, but I reassessed my stance on Wiseman and Okongwu. My worry is the same as @I'mWithDan - his expected height and arm length make him undersized at SF. I'm pretty sure Porter has better measurables. If his shot doesn't come along, we are talking about a Tony Allen type. Nothing wrong with a player like that and the Celtics missed him when they lost him, but at #5 overall there is upside elsewhere. I do appreciate the fact he contributes to winning basketball and does all the intangibles. I won't be mad if the Cavs take him.
 

Cavatt

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That is my concern as well with both he and Vassell. They both make a lot less sense as 2's, if our intention is to keep both Sexton and Garland. We realistically need a player who is of that same mold (as those two) but is more of a true 3......so that all 3 guys can realistically be on the floor together.

Relative to what I have seen, it seems more realistic that Vassell is big enough to fill that role......For Okoro, the one measurement in the databases I have access to pegs him at 6'4.75" without shoes. He would need a big wingspan and standing reach number IMO to not have a substantial length disadvantage at the 3. For comparison sake, someone like Paul George was 6'7.75 without shoes. Players have sized down recently but we already have two undersized players at the 1/2........adding a 3rd, relative to their position, seems like we'd just get physically overwhelmed on the perimeter.

I like Okoro but if the intention is to keep Garland and Sexton, we need a potentially bigger and longer player on the wing. Maybe Okoro has grown......which would be ideal but we'll see.

I think this si something to consider for sure, but Okoro is one of those guys that plays big. He obviously likes physicality and has no issue mixing it up with bigger players. Strong enough to guard the post. He is also a guy that uses positioning and ball denial and strength as opposed to being super long.

His free throw rate was .55 lol. Just that kind of guy who is super strong.

I think he plays like small forward. Agree tho that I would like to see him measure slightly larger
 

Nathan S

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I do think he's a SF. As I've said before, I'd rather take the guy who's proven himself physically in the paint over the guy who's an inch taller but drifts around the perimeter and avoids contact. My issue is...do we really want a SF who isn't a very good floor spacer, and who also isn't a point forward? Personality-wise maybe he fits with Sexton, but do they actually complement each other on the court in any way? I can imagine Sexton/KPJ/Okoro lineups being really frustrating to watch offensively.
 

Cavatt

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I had him in my top 5 during the college season, but I reassessed my stance on Wiseman and Okongwu. My worry is the same as @I'mWithDan - his expected height and arm length make him undersized at SF. I'm pretty sure Porter has better measurables. If his shot doesn't come along, we are talking about a Tony Allen type. Nothing wrong with a player like that and the Celtics missed him when they lost him, but at #5 overall there is upside elsewhere. I do appreciate the fact he contributes to winning basketball and does all the intangibles. I won't be mad if the Cavs take him.

Yeah i agree with you on length, but he does have way more offensive ability than Tony Allen. At the rim he shoots over 60%. I saw 79% yesterday, but I am not sure it is accurate. He has an NBA quality Euro step today.

He had multiple game winners at the rim because guys can't stop him even when they know he is going to drive. Only 26% assisted at the rim, so almost 75% of the time he converted at a super high rate all by himself despite the other team knowing he can't shoot. That isn't "if only he can shoot" it is "if he learns to shoot, he will destroy the other team" Decison making is already at a high level and he can pass out of double.

Point is he is a 2 way player, and i do think he is the only guy with a high floor high ceiling in the lottery.
 

Cavatt

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I do think he's a SF. As I've said before, I'd rather take the guy who's proven himself physically in the paint over the guy who's an inch taller but drifts around the perimeter and avoids contact. My issue is...do we really want a SF who isn't a very good floor spacer, and who also isn't a point forward? Personality-wise maybe he fits with Sexton, but do they actually complement each other on the court in any way? I can imagine Sexton/KPJ/Okoro lineups being really frustrating to watch offensively.

He generates a lot of deflections. Sexton would be off to the races. He's amazing in Transition and would cover for him defensively.

He makes reads, I think he has passing potential. Had a 7 assist game, team wasn't particularly good shooting(helped his offensive rebounds) and averaged 3.2 in high school. Not a point forward like you say, but not a slouch in that area for a wing.
 

Randolphkeys

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Yeah i agree with you on length, but he does have way more offensive ability than Tony Allen. At the rim he shoots over 60%. I saw 79% yesterday, but I am not sure it is accurate. He has an NBA quality Euro step today.

He had multiple game winners at the rim because guys can't stop him even when they know he is going to drive. Only 26% assisted at the rim, so almost 75% of the time he converted at a super high rate all by himself despite the other team knowing he can't shoot. That isn't "if only he can shoot" it is "if he learns to shoot, he will destroy the other team" Decison making is already at a high level and he can pass out of double.

Point is he is a 2 way player, and i do think he is the only guy with a high floor high ceiling in the lottery.

My only real criticism of your stance is that Tony Allen could drive to the hoop when he was younger. Those last few years he was just grinding on defense and getting out of the way on offense, but he had wiggle getting to the hoop in Boston.

I have nothing against the Cavs taking Okoro, I just like a few other options more. I worry a bit that Porter and Sexton are already looking to penetrate. Okoro's assist numbers do not stand out for a guy who likely is a work in progress as an outside shooter. He had two assists and two turnovers a game. Collin Sexton was more positive creating for others in college, and obviously he isn't great setting others up now.

Still, I'd be down with the Cavs taking him. I envisioned him in a Cavs uniform when watching Auburn this past season. Can't say I could do that with Obi.
 

Cavatt

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My only real criticism of your stance is that Tony Allen could drive to the hoop when he was younger. Those last few years he was just grinding on defense and getting out of the way on offense, but he had wiggle getting to the hoop in Boston.

I have nothing against the Cavs taking Okoro, I just like a few other options more. I worry a bit that Porter and Sexton are already looking to penetrate. Okoro's assist numbers do not stand out for a guy who likely is a work in progress as an outside shooter. He had two assists and two turnovers a game. Collin Sexton was more positive creating for others in college, and obviously he isn't great setting others up now.

Still, I'd be down with the Cavs taking him. I envisioned him in a Cavs uniform when watching Auburn this past season. Can't say I could do that with Obi.

Yeah I get it. I am just saying Okoro's finishing isn't just ok, it is elite. Tony Allen shot 46% from 2 in College. Okoro shot 60%. He's really high level there. We know wings who "dont have space to operate" do better in the NBA.

Totally agree he would need to improve his passing until his shooting comes along. I tend to think he hasn't needed to improve his passing or shooting because no one can stop him in the paint. I think his IQ means he is capable of improving here.

What is a great assist rate for a wing? He is at 13%. Jalen brown/Tatum college numbers. Jalen's was lower when he was older.

Vassell is slightly worse, so yes he can shoot, but if you want playmaking from a wing gotta take Deni I guess.
 

I'mWithDan

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My big hangup with Okoro, that I just can't get beyond, is he really has no statistical markers that he will be a good shooter.

He's been a poor FT shooter on all levels, he's been a sub par 3PT shooter on all levels and just downright bad in his one college season.....and my larger concern is that even though there has been some rather serious acceleration in his game, to go from relatively unknown to a lottery pick in 24months, his shooting has remained unchanged. That is just a huge red flag to me.

The size stuff can be explained away, as I think his physicality, competitiveness and athleticism will allow him to play bigger but describing the shooting things as even a leap of faith is a stretch to me......he likely has to overhaul his mechanics to attain above average status as a shooter and that endeavor can be a complete disaster a lot of times.

It is a really tough call. I'd prefer guys like Okongwu to Okoro.......but it is just one persons opinion.
 

I'mWithDan

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Vassell is slightly worse, so yes he can shoot, but if you want playmaking from a wing gotta take Deni I guess.

Is AST % misleading here? I mean, Vassell has a 2:1 AST/TO ratio. He's a solid team passer and if he improves on the move, has the ability to become an all around offensive player.

Analytically, everything says to take Vassell, for what it is worth. By every measure, save FTR, he is a better and more impactful player.......and they are effectively the same age. I guess you can argue that Okoro is more physically ready, which he is....but is that enough?

Vassell is the guy, if he measures well, you take in a heartbeat (to me). If he has true size for the 3 position, he is one of the best SF profiles in a while. If he does measure well, it is possible he's not even there at 5 though.....so we'll see.
 
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Randolphkeys

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What is a great assist rate for a wing? He is at 13%. Jalen brown/Tatum college numbers. Jalen's was lower when he was older.

Vassell is slightly worse, so yes he can shoot, but if you want playmaking from a wing gotta take Deni I guess.

A break even assist to turnover ratio isn't good for a perimeter player, especially one who initiates the pick and roll. Add the limits in measurables and, as many have pointed out, .7 makes a game from three... it's just hard to imagine him as a top five pick with one of Deni and Vassell most likely still on the board.

I hate building everything around measurements, especially when the draft combine hasn't even happened yet, but from the eye test Deni is going to be a few inches taller and we know he is just as physical. Vassell is expected to have a 6'10 wingspan according to a quick search, which is so important in challenging shots and passes.

Okoro has two elite skills: perimeter defense and finishing his drives to the basket. It makes him an interesting prospect but the other two have a safer floor.
 

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My preference in order is okoro, vassel, deni.. but I don't think any of those should be drafted at five or higher.. I think your elite guards , ball, haliburton, and centers, Wiseman, Okongwu, and Toppin are higher picks..

I also don't see any one of those three wings as separated from the other enough to care. I think if we get to five and any two of those guys are left we try to trade back..

Also, if Toppin is still at five when we get our shot, I would not be pissed if we took him. He might bust or he might be the best player in this draft..

I think it's very tough to gage these guys with so little tape to go on, and no combine.. Everybody is a pig in a poke..
 

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A break even assist to turnover ratio isn't good for a perimeter player, especially one who initiates the pick and roll. Add the limits in measurables and, as many have pointed out, .7 makes a game from three... it's just hard to imagine him as a top five pick with one of Deni and Vassell most likely still on the board.

I hate building everything around measurements, especially when the draft combine hasn't even happened yet, but from the eye test Deni is going to be a few inches taller and we know he is just as physical. Vassell is expected to have a 6'10 wingspan according to a quick search, which is so important in challenging shots and passes.

Okoro has two elite skills: perimeter defense and finishing his drives to the basket. It makes him an interesting prospect but the other two have a safer floor.

I have a super simple star sniffer I think works pretty well.

Elite skills, high IQ and plus athleticism. Only the athleticism is negotiable. I think Okoro beats the other 2 wings in all three categories. His elite skill is better than the other 2 wings we are discussing, his IQ IMO is higher and he has a higher impact in more areas of the game, and of all three he's the only one with above average nba athleticism/lateral mobility.

IQ is the only one of those I think is debatable. Deni has a more advanced floor game.

I really thought as a Delly fan you would be more onboard with Okoro. When you see his anticipation and ability to know what his opponents are gonna do. Positioning, ball denial, getting to the spot the ball is going before the offensive player.

He's explosive and his first step is the best of the 3, his second jump is the best of the three, he's the strongest and most athletic.
 

Cavatt

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Is AST % misleading here? I mean, Vassell has a 2:1 AST/TO ratio. He's a solid team passer and if he improves on the move, has the ability to become an all around offensive player.

Analytically, everything says to take Vassell, for what it is worth. By every measure, save FTR, he is a better and more impactful player.......and they are effectively the same age. I guess you can argue that Okoro is more physically ready, which he is....but is that enough?

Vassell is the guy, if he measures well, you take in a heartbeat (to me). If he has true size for the 3 position, he is one of the best SF profiles in a while. If he does measure well, it is possible he's not even there at 5 though.....so we'll see.

Just seeing the same things I saw with Porter last year and getting similar vibes. Did you tell me last year there were hundreds of players of Porter jrs caliber or was that Nathan?

Vassell is my 2nd pick at 5, and I would be happy with him
 

Randolphkeys

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I really thought as a Delly fan you would be more onboard with Okoro. When you see his anticipation and ability to know what his opponents are gonna do. Positioning, ball denial, getting to the spot the ball is going before the offensive player.

Like I said, I have no problem seeing him in a Cavs uniform, but I believe there are five better prospects in this draft. I have him at a dead heat with Vassell. I don't think Vassell is going to improve on dribble drives. He is going to play like Klay or a poor man's Reggie Miller - dribble just enough to stop and pop. I believe Okoro could improve as a shooter. I like the fact Okoro is a year younger in his development. Measurements are going to be important as my tie breaker.

I believe Deni gets short changed in RCF discussions. It's probably because people equate his league stats with the stats from the college regular season, but the competition Deni faced was a much higher level. As much as Okoro's finishing numbers on two point field goals gets mentioned, Deni's is still higher.

Remember, while I did talk up Delly in the 2013 draft, I didn't bring him up as a lottery pick. I liked him as a second rounder if the Cavs traded back into the second round. I like Okoro and I'm not calling him a second rounder, just not in my #5.
 

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