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Yahoo: Why the OSU case is worse than that of USC

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Casey Anthony and OJ Simpson both were found not to be guilty... I guess that means they never killed anyone or were at fault.

OSU clearly did something here, maybe it can't be proven. However, it doesn't mean they did nothing wrong.

Second time today I've heard OSU's violations compared to murder.

Grow up, people. You soaked up every word that SI put out, not even considering an agenda or the character of those interviewed. ESPN is suing the university and you're ignorant of that agenda. The NCAA finds that nothing is substantiated and you now decide that it is time to point out an agenda? PLEASE.
 
I still dont think OSU as an insitution did anything wrong. sure there was NCAA violations but the media has lied about alot of so called facts.

Tressel never verbally said to anyone in the press or specifically to the NCAA that he never knew about it. this was implied in several articles.

Tressel never received information from the FBI in regards to the communications.

Tressel did received an e Mail from an Attorney who was violating Attorney confidentiality.

Tressel did take action and researched the matter

Tressel did know that the violations would be made public during the football season.

The Compliance department was not made aware of the situation.

OSU compliance department found the e mails while researching the matter for appeal and immediately reported it to the NCAA.

Tressel did violate NCAA regulations by not reporting the violations.

Tressel did sign a a multi page document that included the words not aware of the investigation. this was written by the compliance department before the appeal process and the wording was included because they werent aware Tressel had been made aware of the violations.

Tressel did not facilitate endors or condone the situation. He stopped it and waited to let the information come out on its own course.

The Media as a collective got further annoyed that Tressel stil had the support of OSU fans and stepped up their attempt to villianize Tressel.

Tressel failed at his responsibilities and at first glance it looked like a suspension was sufficient. It wasnt. Tressel retired (forced out) instead.

Theres no villian or bad guy. or administration corruption in regards to the school.

This wasnt shady recruiting tactics.

It was about players feeling entitled something the NCAA says their not and qa coach getting caught in the wake of those violations.

Not something to punish the current team for outside of a loss of a few scholarships.
 
I still dont think OSU did not do anything wrong. sure there was NCAA violations but the media has lied.

This is without a doubt both the most grammatically screwed up and factually incorrect statement made on these forums since Doug was telling people he knew for sure that LeBron was going to re-sign.
 
And if you presented anything other then "Oh well it's got to be true"....then perhaps I'd believe you.

Despite all the evidence you've already ignored. Sure, you'd believe me. I could have a video of Tressell, Gene Smith and the rest of OSU higher ups saying they violated NCAA policies and you'd claim that it was actors/fake/not true.

Second time today I've heard OSU's violations compared to murder.

Grow up, people. You soaked up every word that SI put out, not even considering an agenda or the character of those interviewed. ESPN is suing the university and you're ignorant of that agenda. The NCAA finds that nothing is substantiated and you now decide that it is time to point out an agenda? PLEASE.

Clearly I compared it to murder. I must have said what OSU did was worse than murder huh? The whole Clarrett fiasco should have told you that there was something going on since '02. The only two ignorant of that is you and b00bie (who's comparable to LeCharles Bentley at this point).

Quit twisting my words. Perhaps you're the one that should grow up.

I still dont think OSU did not do anything wrong. sure there was NCAA violations but the media has lied.

If in fact, the media has lied, which they haven't. Then why doesn't OSU sue them for defamation? One could argue their whole image is now down and that kids may be skipping signing with them for other schools because they don't know if they will be bowl eligible.
 
Clearly I compared it to murder. I must have said what OSU did was worse than murder huh? The whole Clarrett fiasco should have told you that there was something going on since '02. The only two ignorant of that is you and b00bie (who's comparable to LeCharles Bentley at this point).

Quit twisting my words. Perhaps you're the one that should grow up.

You made a clear comparison, basically saying that "OSU got away with murder". I'm not twisting anything. Clearly, I'm the delirious one who is ignoring Clarett's "admissions" about the school. I should have known when a guy caught with an automatic weapon and a bottle of Grey Goose in his car blew the whistle that illicit activities were going on with the program. OSU may have erred in judgment when recruiting him, but he did help them win a National Championship. I'll grow up when you quit having selective hearing when it comes to stories about Tressel and the OSU program.

If the glove don't fit, you're full of shit.
 
You made a clear comparison, basically saying that "OSU got away with murder". I'm not twisting anything. Clearly, I'm the delirious one who is ignoring Clarett's "admissions" about the school. I should have known when a guy caught with an automatic weapon and a bottle of Grey Goose in his car blew the whistle that illicit activities were going on with the program. OSU may have erred in judgment when recruiting him, but he did help them win a National Championship. I'll grow up when you quit having selective hearing when it comes to stories about Tressel and the OSU program.

If the glove don't fit, you're full of shit.

Once again claiming I said that it's like Simpson getting away with murder when I never said that. I said OJ got away with murder, but that doesn't mean he didn't do it. No where did I say that the unethical actions of OSU were equal to murder. Quit twisting my words like an ex-girlfriend would.

Clarrett cheated while at the program and you ignore this claiming oh it's just cause he's psycho. Did you ever think that he's the only one that got caught? When a former player comes out and says everyone was doing it, that should tell you something. He didn't gain anything from it, not a cent! There was no financial incentive for the guy to say anything.

You ignore the warning signs like congress ignored the warning signs of the economy crashing. And no I'm not saying those two are equal.

You probably believe OJ Simpson, Casey Anthony, Kobe Bryant and Big Ben never committed a crime. That's fine believe that, but don't call me ignorant. You're the pot calling the kettle black.
 
http://www.aarontorres-sports.com/a...h-busting-the-ncaas-report-on-ohio-state.html


Myth Busting The NCAA's Report On Ohio State E-mail Written by Aaron Torres | 25 July 2011


I’ll be the first to admit that when all of the allegations against Ohio State’s football program started leaking earlier this year, I was as guilty as anyone of a quick, knee-jerk reaction.

When Jim Tressel went down like a disgraced Senator (see what I did there?), and Terrelle Pryor was accused of trying to autograph and sell anything that wasn’t bolted to the ground, I thought for sure that the Ohio State football dominance was over. So long Big Ten titles. See ya, regular BCS bowl game appearances. Hello major NCAA investigation. The way I saw it, all you had to do was take USC’s punishment from last summer, multiply it by 1.5, and that’s what Ohio State would end up with. Bowl bans, scholarship losses, a major overhaul of the entire Athletics Department. Anything and everything. You name it.

Which is why when I read the report on the findings from an NCAA investigation over the weekend, I was absolutely stunned.

Not only did it not appear that Ohio State wasn’t going to get hit with major sanctions, quite frankly, it doesn't appear they should be. If anything, Ohio State was running an Athletics Department, gulp, about as efficiently as you can.

Crazy, right? Well go ahead and read the report.

In it, we find a program that not only tried to do things the right way, but if anything, went above and beyond protocol to try and abide by the rules. We find a school which hammered home the ramifications of wrongdoing like an elementary school teacher lecturing her class before a field trip. The report also details the life of a coach that appeared to be some combination of scared, naïve and ignorant, someone who was undoubtedly concerned about his players, but not entirely sure how to handle them.

Granted, with that said, I understand most of you probably didn't have time to read the report, and most don't have the time now. Therefore, I'll go ahead and give you the nitty-gritty details here, so we can figure out what happened, and what it means going forward.

It’s time to do some Ohio State myth-busting.



Myth No. 1: The Ohio State Case Is One Of The Greatest Displays Of Over Exuberant Rule-Breaking We’ve Ever Seen


Understand that when all of the allegations against the Buckeyes started this spring, I consumed them like a middle-aged woman watching Ellen on a weekday afternoon. I repeatedly Googled Terrelle Pryor’s name like a teenage guy would Jessica Alba’s. I refreshed ESPN.com, craving the latest little nugget of news. Heck, I basically sabotaged my Memorial Day at the beach, trying to figure out what was going to come from George Dohrmann’s Sports Illustrated report.

And you know what? Sadly, it was all for nothing.

The reason being, that according to their report, the NCAA didn’t find out anything that we didn’t know back in February. Essentially, some players got a hook-up on some free tattoos, and Jim Tressel knew about it all the way back in April 2010. That’s it. The NCAA found nothing on Terrelle Pryor trading autographed goods for cash, and nothing about any widespread, deep seated corruption that dated back a decade. Just a few dudes who spent the last few years receiving free tatts, and a coach that knew about it.

With that said, is that alone bad? Of course it is. According to the report, there were eight guys that got some kind of hook-up, for stuff ranging from $150 to $14,200. Some NCAA sanctions are obviously coming for the school, and the guilty parties have all either been suspended, or you'd have to assume no longer with the school (either graduated, or in the case of Pryor, asked to leave).

At the same time, a lot of stuff we thought we knew doesn't appear to hold up. All those rumblings about Pryor receiving $40,000 for autographed goods, as well as the tattoo hookup taking place at multiple shops for multiple years? It just isn’t true. At least not according to the report. Instead the report indicates the tattoo hook-up started as recently as 2008, when Fine Line Ink owner Edward Rife became friends with a few players. It didn’t start in 2002, like had previously been reported.

Which in a way, brings me to a bigger fundamental problem, both with the way that we as fans consume our information, as well as the people that report it. And that’s, that we really should do a better job of holding our reporters accountable. Or at the very least, taking some of what they say with a grain of salt.

What do I mean?

Well, for starters, there was that whole story that ran on ESPN about Pryor autographing just about anything he could get his hands on for cash. I’m not saying it didn’t happen, since Pryor definitely left the school under some very suspicious circumstances. And as I’ve mentioned before, I found it very bizarre that on his “Camp Gruden” special Pryor repeatedly apologized to Ohio State fans, without saying what exactly he was apologizing for.

Still, while I think he might have done it, the NCAA was unable to prove that he actually did. Which again, probably says quite a bit about me as the fan here.

It also says quite a bit that I took to heart a story that involved one person’s account of what happened, with that person not even willing to show his face on camera. Was that one “source,” telling the truth and was afraid of repercussions? It’s definitely a possibility. Or does he simply have a vendetta and didn’t want it to be acknowledged? You could make the case of either, couldn’t you? Yet, I took the report as straight fact. And I shouldn’t have done that.

It’s similar with the Sports Illustrated report.

Understand I’m not blaming Dohrmann for what happened. I want to make it clear that Dohrmann is better at his job than I will ever be at anything I do. I sincerely mean that. And as he mentioned on Twitter Friday, the NCAA had the opportunity to interview one of his sources, but refused to for confidentiality reasons. Blame them in that case, not him.

At the same time, a lot of the information that he reported seems to have been debunked. Remember when Sports Illustrated reported that the free tattoos had been going at multiple locations for a decade? The NCAA disagrees; they said it’s been going on since 2008 and that’s it. Remember when Sports Illustrated said Pryor used to walk into the equipment room and took whatever he wanted? According to the NCAA’s findings, Ohio State had an extensive logging system for anyone who wanted to take big items (helmets, shoulder pads etc.) out of the equipment room. And for a lot of people who wanted those items, they had to pay for them, in compliance with NCAA rules.

That’s all in direct conflict with what’s been previously reported.

(Random side note: It’s for reasons like this, that I have begun to appreciate the reporting of Dan Wetzel, Charles Robinson and the Yahoo guys more and more by the day.

Go ahead and look at their track record. Those guys don’t dabble in the grey area, and don’t deal with unnamed sources. They get people on the record. Everything is backed up by receipts, phone logs and e-mail chains. Name an investigation, and it’s all the same: Willie Lyles at Oregon. Lloyd Lake at USC. Tom Moore at UConn. On the record. On the record. On the record.

Again, that’s not to take anything away from anyone else. It gives an especially strong appreciation to what those guys do though.)

Myth No. 2: Someone Besides Jim Tressel Should’ve Known About What Was Happening

Again, just like a lot of people, I jumped out to all sorts of assumptions similar to this one. Mainly, I wanted to know how this all could’ve been kept in the dark? Didn’t Tressel’s assistants know? The Athletic Director? Compliance? Come on! Someone had to know!!!

The answer to all those questions is that it’s just not that simple.

According to the NCAA findings, when Columbus lawyer Chris Cicero first contacted Tressel about Rife, the free tattoos and the Ohio State players involved, the coach told a grand total of three people about what he’d heard. Those people were two redacted players (almost assuredly Terrelle Pryor and DeVier Posey) and a Jeannette, Pennsylvania lawyer named Ted Sarniak. Sarniak of course was Pryor’s mentor from home, who according to Tressel, talked to TPeezy daily. That’s it. It was those three, and those three only who found out.

Amongst the people that Tressel didn’t tell when he got the e-mails included, Ohio State AD Gene Smith, the compliance department, any of his assistant coaches, any other players, or even his own wife. No seriously, he claims he didn’t tell her either.

So the first, fundamental question is, “Why didn’t Tressel tell anyone?” Well, if you believe him, what he said, actually makes sense.

Essentially, the reason that Tressel didn’t talk was because when Cicero came to him with the information, it was because Rife had just been busted in a federal investigation for drug trafficking. One, he didn’t want Cicero to get in trouble for giving him information, and two, it was a lot bigger than tattoos. According to Tressel’s testimony to the NCAA, he was more worried about his kids. Were they drug dealers? Drug users? Middle men?

Here are some direct quotes from Tressel's conversation with NCAA investigators:

“The worst-case scenario, they’re going to prison with Eddie Rife. Maybe they’re selling drugs. Maybe they’re using drugs. I guess best-case scenario, they’re selling memorabilia and we’ll take care of that. They know better than that.” And as he said, when a federal investigation is involved, it’s much bigger than an NCAA issue at that point”

He then added that he was worried about the player’s safety, being involved with a known drug trafficker:

“I’ve also had a player murdered. I have a player incarcerated. I have had a couple guys get sucked into the drug culture. I’ve had a player who served a ten-year suspension [sic] for obstruction of justice, you know? And those things, just like games, you remember the bad play in the game that cost you the game. You don’t remember the 77 good plays,”

And then, finally as he explained, again, this was a federal investigation. It went well beyond a simple NCAA ruling:

“’Cause to me, it wasn’t simply an NCAA rule. And I’m not belittling the importance of an NCAA rule. But it was way beyond an NCAA rule. I mean, it was a security issue. It was a federal criminal issue. It was a narcotics issue. You know, where do you turn?”

Of course that still doesn’t answer the fundamental question of should Ohio State have known. To which I ask, how could they?

Clearly for his own reasons (whether you believe them or not), Tressel went out of his way to keep this all secret. Just about the only way Ohio State could’ve had any idea, is if they did a detailed review of all his e-mails. Yes they should’ve been more proactive, but remember, he only traded two or three e-mails with his tipster, Cicero. It wasn’t a long, drawn out communication process.

Beyond that, at what point is a school trying to be complaint with NCAA rules (which we’ll get to in a minute) and at what point are they simply micro-managing? Remember, Ohio State has over 30 varsity sports, and those 30 varsity sports not only have a head coach, but also a litany of assistants. On top of all their other responsibilities, when does “checking every single e-mail,” become over the top burdensome and ridiculous for the compliance department?

Granted that Tressel was the highest profile coach they had, so the department probably should’ve been more watchful over him. But what does “more watchful” even mean? Check all his e-mails? Only some? Random audits? What about his assistants?

I don’t know.

However, this also brings me to my next point…

Myth No. 3: Ohio State Should’ve Done More!

Umm, no they shouldn’t have. Quite frankly, I’m not sure they could have. Simply put, anyone who is still saying that Ohio State “could’ve or should've done more,” is either an idiot, or didn't read the report. In some cases both (No offense).

Because if you did read the report, you’ll understand that this wasn’t some rogue program that had their head in the sand. Instead, it was one that not only followed protocol, but went way beyond it, and tried just about everything it could educate it’s players and coaches on what was acceptable, and what wasn’t.

Understand, that’s not my opinion. That’s fact. At least according to the NCAA report.

Amongst the things that they found, included that at least twice annually, the school met with the football program- players and coaches- about what was acceptable behavior, and what was not tolerated by NCAA rules.

Since I can’t say it better than the NCAA report did, here’s a direct quote from the report:

The institution demonstrated that each fall and spring during the time of the violations, it provided education to football student-athletes and staff, regarding extra benefits and preferential treatment.

Ok, not bad. Beyond that, it continues to say that the school talked specifically about selling rewards they got as being part of the team:

Regarding the sale of memorabilia, the institution provided the football staff with rules education specific to the sale of institutionally issued athletics awards each year starting in 2007.

Pretty good, right? Well how about a separate meeting before bowl games just to hammer the point home? Again, this is from the NCAA’s own investigation

The institution concluded additional education sessions for football student-athletes prior to each bowl game in which extra benefits were addressed, and the young men were told that it was impermissible to sell gifts received for participation in bowl games.

One more quote from the NCAA’s report, just to prove my point.

In November 2009, the institution increased its education to football student athletes regarding institutionally issued awards, apparel and equipment. Specifically the institution informed football student-athletes that it was impermissible to sell those items. The institution indicated that the increase in education was at least partially prompted by the specialty “throwback,” uniforms the team wore in its game against the University of Michigan.

So now let me ask you: Is this the renegade, out of control program that you pictured in your head a month, or maybe even a week ago? Or one with a few dumb players and an even dumber coach, who were warned time and time again about consequences for rule breaking and went forward and did it anyway?

For those who are ready to throw the book at Ohio State, what else were they supposed to do?

Myth No. 4: Who Cares, The NCAA Still Needs To Make An Example Out Of Ohio State

This one really pisses me off. Especially since I’ve seen a couple of well-respected reporters take this stance. Please stop.

Look, it’s not the NCAA’s job to make an example out of anyone. The NCAA’s job is to try and figure out right from wrong, investigate the rule breakers, and punish them accordingly. Not make the rules as they go, and punish as fans or the media sees fit. It’s also not their job to believe every piece of crap report that gets thrown out as “fact.” As NCAA President Mark Emmert has said before, the NCAA punishes based on “What we can prove, not what we read.”

And what the NCAA proved in their report is again, what we already knew: A handful of players received improper benefits, from a sketchy drug trafficker. Those players have either been suspended for five games, or are no longer with the program. The coach has been fired. And based on the way the department has acted so far, I assume that if anyone else comes up as guilty, the school with act swiftly with them as well. So with that said, what exactly is there to “make an example of?” Ohio State did an investigation, found some stuff, and the guilty were punished accordingly. What more do you want?

Beyond that, a lot of people are upset that it appears that Ohio State won’t be hit with the two worst sanctions a program can get, “Lack of Institutional Control,” and “Failure to Monitor.” To which I say, again, read the reports and understand them.

Why? Well, let’s start with Lack of Institutional Control, since that’s the worst punishment. It’s also what USC got hit with, and the Trojans case is the one most closely being compared to Ohio State's. Which it shouldn't be.

The reason being this: Remember that in the case of USC, it really was a "lack of institutional control." It wasn't one player, or even one team that was a problem, but the whole institituion. Don't forget that; things ran deeper than just Reggie Bush and the football program. Remember that the compliance staff was woefully understaffed. The school knowingly set Bush up with a “summer internship,” with a sports agency (No, for real, that actually happened). And it went beyond the football program. USC basketball coach Tim Floyd got caught paying cash to one of O.J. Mayo’s handlers. That folks, is lack of institutional control. Not what happened at Ohio State.

What about Failure to Monitor? Well, given that all the measures seemed to be in place (compliance meetings, player logs, and everything else), it seems like the school tried to do their best to monitor. Only one guy (Tressel), didn’t exactly make it easy for them to do so.

Just to be safe, let’s look at something straight from the NCAA, and right off the Pac-10’s website. It’s in regard to LOIC punishment, but something that seems to be very applicable for what happened at Ohio State.

An institution cannot be expected to control the actions of every individual who is in some way connected with its athletics program. The deliberate or inadvertent violation of a rule by an individual who is not in charge of compliance with rules that are violated will not be considered to be due to a lack of institutional control:

• if adequate compliance measures exist;

• if they are appropriately conveyed to those who need to be aware of them;

• if they are monitored to ensure that such measures are being followed;

To me, it seems like this little excerpt is a carbon copy of what was used in determining what happened at Ohio State. Again, a school can’t be expected to control the actions of every individual, and the school won’t be punished, as long as certain parameters were in place. Like they were at Ohio State.

Myth No. 5: Still, I Don’t Care What The Rule Book Says, Something Isn’t Right. Punish Ohio State!!

Please, just stop.

I’ve got a couple of additional thoughts on this, and they involve why I don’t believe that Ohio State should get crushed (ie: bowl bans, major scholarship reductions) by the NCAA.

The first is simple. Whenever the NCAA does one of these investigations, don’t we as fans always piss and moan, “Why are the current players the ones who are getting screwed, when someone else is the one who committed the violations?” I know that I say that all the time, and I’m sure you do too. Ultimately, isn’t it always someone who didn’t do the crime, stuck doing the time?

Well again, at Ohio State, the culprits have been punished up front. Tressel has been fired. Pryor has been banished to Camp Gruden. The other players are suspended for five games. Assuming nothing else comes out (which obviously isn’t out of the question), why are we going to punish everyone else beyond what’s happened? For what? To prove a point? Isn’t that everything that we always hate about these investigations?

The second thing is this: The NCAA has proven that time and again their punishments are based much more on what systems were in place to stop the rule breaking, and what actions have been taken to make sure they never happen again. Not how bad the actual crimes are themselves. Their approach is that you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink. In other words, you can teach a football coach and his players the rules and hammer them home. There’s no guarantee they’ll listen.

And to go back to USC, that, more than anything is why they got in big trouble. Yes what Reggie Bush did was bad, really bad. Same with O.J. Mayo. At the same time, the school was to blame too. They didn’t do a good enough job of trying to hold themselves accountable early on (Lack of compliance) and even after the investigation started, dragged their feet. Heck, the coach who was implicated for allegedly knowing about Bush’s transgressions (Todd McNair, which is questionable by the way), wasn’t fired until after the investigation was completed and the sanctions took effect. Tressel resigned way, way, WAY before that. As for the rest of compliance, the staff was in place. Even if the players and coach didn’t listen.

Look, in the end, maybe I’m naïve, and to a degree, I know I am. At the same time, I’m not one of these people who believes the NCAA picks and choose their punishments randomly, as much as they act within the parameters of the twisted, convoluted world they live in. Basically, blame the system, not those who enforce it.

Well in the case of Ohio State, if you believe the NCAA’s findings, then you’ve got a situation where the school tried to play things by the book, and the coach and a few knucklehead players wouldn’t let them. Is that a situation where the whole ship should sink? I think not (And granted, I feel the same way about USC. The kids there now, were hit way too hard).

Simply put, Ohio State did the best they could throughout most of this investigation. Yes, they could’ve acted quicker with Tressel, but they still got rid of him. And they punished all the other guilty parties accordingly.

Now, they should be allowed to move on. With sanctions yes, but not by having their program stripped to bare bones.

Nobody should be trying to make an example of out Ohio State’s football program.

Quite the opposite.

An example should be made of how the Athletics Department handled a really bad situation.
 
Once again claiming I said that it's like Simpson getting away with murder when I never said that. I said OJ got away with murder, but that doesn't mean he didn't do it. No where did I say that the unethical actions of OSU were equal to murder. Quit twisting my words like an ex-girlfriend would.

Clarrett cheated while at the program and you ignore this claiming oh it's just cause he's psycho. Did you ever think that he's the only one that got caught? When a former player comes out and says everyone was doing it, that should tell you something. He didn't gain anything from it, not a cent! There was no financial incentive for the guy to say anything.

You ignore the warning signs like congress ignored the warning signs of the economy crashing. And no I'm not saying those two are equal.

You probably believe OJ Simpson, Casey Anthony, Kobe Bryant and Big Ben never committed a crime. That's fine believe that, but don't call me ignorant. You're the pot calling the kettle black.

Speaking the pot calling the kettle black. Make you feel good to throw words in my mouth? :rolleyes:

I'm just accusing you of selective hearing. I believe OSU was wrong here, but I'm not buying into a widespread diabolical plan to dole out benefits like PacMan at a strip club. Also, I'm gong to chastise those who predicted and hope the sky falls in Columbus because it is a direct reflection of selectively listening to the damning reports made by ESPN and SI.

You calling it ignoring warning signs, I call it you guessing and assuming. Guessing that there is more because disgruntled players said so. Mo Clarett's incentive isn't money, it's scapegoating and I don't by it.
 
Speaking the pot calling the kettle black. Make you feel good to throw words in my mouth? :rolleyes:

No where did I say you believed that stuff, I said probably. Once again you continue to ignore/twist words. I never said you said it. Just said you probably believe it.

I'm just accusing you of selective hearing. I believe OSU was wrong here, but I'm not buying into a widespread diabolical plan to dole out benefits like PacMan at a strip club. Also, I'm gong to chastise those who predicted and hope the sky falls in Columbus because it is a direct reflection of selectively listening to the damning reports made by ESPN and SI.

To think there's nothing to the stories by SI or ESPN is silly. Have you ever heard of ethics? It's simply not ethical for a player to accept anything for free (golf, cars, tatoos, ect...). That would be like me walking up to a kid and giving him 1,000 bucks for having a good game on a high school team.

You calling it ignoring warning signs, I call it you guessing and assuming. Guessing that there is more because disgruntled players said so. Mo Clarett's incentive isn't money, it's scapegoating and I don't by it.

I wasn't talking about Clarett's words. I was talking about the kid out of Glennville that went there and played football. LeCharles Bentley was asked by Goldhammer if he received preferential treatment and the guy goes off on a tangent saying "If I did I wouldn't tell you!". That right there raises red flags about how the guy is getting so defensive about a yes or no question.

If the program smells fishy, looks fishy, and sounds fishy; then it probably is fishy.
 
You made a clear comparison, basically saying that "OSU got away with murder". I'm not twisting anything.

It's not a very hard concept... just because the NCAA didn't have enough proof to give OSU the "failure to monitor" doesn't mean the program was clean. There just wasn't enough hard evidence. The comparison to a trial and a "not guilty" verdict is pretty clear. I'm sorry if you don't have the mental wherewithal to see the parallel.
 
It's not a very hard concept... just because the NCAA didn't have enough proof to give OSU the "failure to monitor" doesn't mean the program was clean. There just wasn't enough hard evidence. The comparison to a trial and a "not guilty" verdict is pretty clear. I'm sorry if you don't have the mental wherewithal to see the parallel.

We get it just fine. You choose to believe where there is smoke there's fire. You also choose to believe if someone is accused then they're probably guilty. I'd prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt until there's some hard evidence to the contrary. Maybe OSU is the rogue program that you believe them to be. But, right now the evidence hasn't supported that.
 
It's not a very hard concept... just because the NCAA didn't have enough proof to give OSU the "failure to monitor" doesn't mean the program was clean. There just wasn't enough hard evidence. The comparison to a trial and a "not guilty" verdict is pretty clear. I'm sorry if you don't have the mental wherewithal to see the parallel.

Grow up.

And even in your elaboration to the "getting away with murder" likens it to getting away with murder, or as you're trying to word it, "getting found not-guilty because of a lack of substantiating evidence." I take the lack of substantiating evidence here as what it is in the report, a finding that the university doesn't necessarily have a huge problem because Ray Small said so. It is selective hearing to believe Ray Small and Maurice Clarett and completely ignore that the NCAA has found that OSU does have policies in place (which they enforce) to attempt to keep athletes from acting unethically. Like the article said, you can bring a horse to a river, but you can't make them drink the water.

My "mental wherewithal" is not lacking, but rather I'm able to see both sides and I just flat out disagree with you and The Pessimist.

We get it just fine. You choose to believe where there is smoke there's fire. You also choose to believe if someone is accused then they're probably guilty. I'd prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt until there's some hard evidence to the contrary. Maybe OSU is the rogue program that you believe them to be. But, right now the evidence hasn't supported that.

I agree. I guess it is a difference in viewpoints. I want to see OSU get out of it, so there is obviously some bias, but I am certainly not alone in that. We actually have those closest to the situation, the NCAA, on our side. Haters gonna hate.
 
We get it just fine. You choose to believe where there is smoke there's fire. You also choose to believe if someone is accused then they're probably guilty. I'd prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt until there's some hard evidence to the contrary. Maybe OSU is the rogue program that you believe them to be. But, right now the evidence hasn't supported that.

The program just played with 5 players ineligible for the entire season, which the coach knew about. The head coach, an Ohio State football legend just got fired. The starting quarterback and all-time TD leader was ruled ineligible for the season because of failure to cooperate with the NCAA. That's some pretty hard evidence that the program is out of control.


By the way, I went to Ohio State and am happy with the verdict. That doesn't mean I think the program is clean. You honestly think this is legit?

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/BMV-No-wrongdoing-in-Ohio-State-car-purchases-062111

Anybody that's ever been on the campus has seen the cars being driven by OSU football players. You think Pryor is driving a different car to practice every day and there aren't any rules broken? Please.

Do I think Ohio State's football program is worse than any other large football program in the country? Not really. Do I think it's clean? No chance.
 
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We get it just fine. You choose to believe where there is smoke there's fire. You also choose to believe if someone is accused then they're probably guilty. I'd prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt until there's some hard evidence to the contrary. Maybe OSU is the rogue program that you believe them to be. But, right now the evidence hasn't supported that.

Wait, who said anything about a rogue problem? I stated on here before I believe every major program has violations of NCAA policy. I also believe a lot of the mid-majors do as well. The thing that separates them is major programs probably have more.
 
And even in your elaboration to the "getting away with murder" likens it to getting away with murder, or as you're trying to word it, "getting found not-guilty because of a lack of substantiating evidence." I take the lack of substantiating evidence here as what it is in the report, a finding that the university doesn't necessarily have a huge problem because Ray Small said so. It is selective hearing to believe Ray Small and Maurice Clarett and completely ignore that the NCAA has found that OSU does have policies in place (which they enforce) to attempt to keep athletes from acting unethically. Like the article said, you can bring a horse to a river, but you can't make them drink the water.

Or perhaps you're the one that has the selective hearing by not listening to the people talking. Football is like a fraternity, so a lot of players aren't going to come out and say stuff. Nor do they have incentive to, they're the ones benefiting from it. Why hatch their eggs?

My "mental wherewithal" is not lacking, but rather I'm able to see both sides and I just flat out disagree with you and The Pessimist.

You mean you're biased.

I agree. I guess it is a difference in viewpoints. I want to see OSU get out of it, so there is obviously some bias, but I am certainly not alone in that. We actually have those closest to the situation, the NCAA, on our side. Haters gonna hate.

Your love for OSU is clouding your judgement. If this was U of M you'd be ready to put them on the chair.
 

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