Z's future with this team

[Juice22]

Why cant Z be a back-up with AV??? I SAY TRADE BEN WALLACE!!! OVERPAID MOTHER *))(#*)(#*

 

[rabman_gold]

Z not going into the post has been by design. After trading Marshall the Cavaliers didnt have a stretch big man and whatever you think of Drew Gooden his offense skills were never replaced at the PF spot. The offense is designed around James' ability to get to the rim and you have a non-shooter at the PF that no one in the NBA guards. Floor spacing dictates the center must step out on the perimeter.

It is hard to have anyone in the post with the type of PFs the Cavaliers have. The defense is already geared to sag into the paint and Z needs room. Even if Z has a matchup to exploit teams will just front the post and pressure the entry pass. The Cavaliers couldnt get him the ball in these situations with Gooden here now it is near impossible since the remedy for this defense is to flash the PF up to the FT and either go high-low or quick pass to the corner to go over the top. The problem is that opposing PFs have no reason to follow the Cavaliers PF to the FT line and with the defensive rules as they are that PF can stand an arms length away from Z behind him as long as the ball is on the strong side.

In terms of his actual post game some of that is tricky. Teams know not let him deep so they meet him before he gets into post position. Stockier, stronger guys can root off the block. Why does he usually force that hook into the middle? Im not sure. Usually it is confidence with a player. With Z it may be "hey, Im only going to get so many touches so Im going with my best move." The guy works on his game constantly and he has more moves but why we only see them once in a blue moon is beyond me but I would lean toward confidence. If they Cavaliers could import Chris Kaman to every team they play against Z would be great. Against the Clippers I saw a fake to baseline, spin jump hook with the left hand from the right block going middle and I have never seen that since. I dont know what is up with the coaching or lack thereof he has gotten the past 3-4 years or so but his left hand seems to have atrophied. No left hand means no drop step from the left block and a steady stream of fadeaway baseline jumpers.

For the Cavaliers part they never worked to get Z good paint position. His post game has always been about where he catches the ball. The Cavaliers had one predictable ass cross screen they would use to post him that I have seen on ESPN Classic NBA games from the 80s. Now the dont even do that anymore. Z doesnt even look for opportunistic post ups anymore since that isnt his role and he likely wont get the ball. There are numerous times each game where normally a big man would run down the middle floor and try to plant a guy deep into the paint but Z instead of doing that he will come back up the lane and set a pick for James or Williams or whomever.

In terms of Z posting up Rashard Lewis Orlando has 2 ways of negating this. The first way is what they did in the regular season which was to quick switch Lewis and Howard if Z went to the block. What Orlando has done now is to front Z and since Howard doesnt have to guard anyone he will shade behind Z on the strong side or sit outside the opposite block if the ball is weakside knowing he doesnt have to worry about the PF at the FT line and that he has the quickness to recover strong side if the ball is swung and lobbed over the fronting Lewis.

In regards to his future if the Cavaliers had any kind of viable replacement they could look to move him. Wayne Embry traded Mark Price because they felt they had a budding star in Terrell Brandon and you always trade a guy a year too early than a year too late. But, there is nothing waiting in the wings on the Cavaliers now and nothing likely coming in the draft that could take over next year. That leaves trades but that is an unknown at the moment.

So if the Cavaliers are going to diminish Z's role and minutes that means someone else in the frontcourt must pick up that slack. It isnt going to be the offensively challenged Varejao nor the 33 year old Joe Smith or the 34 year old Ben Wallace. JJ Hickson could be that guy but there is different learning curve between starter that can put up numbers and a starter on a team with yearly championship aspirations.

The older Cavaliers fans who have been around before the LeBron James Era knows how hard it is to find big men especially centers that can play. We can remember guys like Michael Cage, Andrew DeClercq, John Ameachi, Greg Dreiling, that played Center post-Daugherty and Pre-Z. Then you had busts like Diop and Mihm who Z has outlasted as a productive players in the NBA. Even if you look at the free agent Center crop of 4 years ago Z has been the most impactful guy in the group in terms of winning basketball. He has been better than Curry, Dalembert and Gadzuric all of whom had their fans among Cavaliers fans as free agent targets.

Z isnt going to excersize his ETO so he will be an ending contract next year. With no real viable options apparent for starting Center he will likely man the middle for another season. What the Cavaliers will need to do is to drastically upgrade the PF position somehow and get more size behind him whether it be a young guy or a stopgap until a young guy is found.

One thing you do in the NBA is that you have to build your team to get out of your conference and I dont think Dwight Howard is going anywhere soon. It was apparent last year that with LeBron James as the focal point you simply cannot have 2 nonscorers on the floor especially upfront. So if the Cavaliers do keep Varejao which there seems to be a hard on with much of the fanbase to do so and replace Z then you are going to have to find a Center that can shoot and score and make the defense respect him.

Therefore, unless Ferry has some secret Hannibal Smith plan to get Mehmet Okur and then get the necessary size to backup/compliment him then I dont know how the Cavaliers can afford to not start Z let alone trade him.

I havent even mentioned the mythical 2010 free agent window and how that plays.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

Seriously, MYoung23, you should be a talk show host... or something with a say. We need people like you to tell everybody here why it's so critical to do this... and do that.

So yeah... let Z stay a little longer. He's old, but he's the most productive big man offensively on this team. Sometimes I can only look back to the days when I was happy we traded for the draft rights to Chris Mihm... Yeah, I know...

Right now, Z should be able to come back next year with little to no difference in abilities (though, I'll never make a real prediction to that time table, 'cause you never know). He can help us, as long as we give him enough rest on his way to being the longest tenured Cav in franchise history.

So let's shop Ben's contract for the next year and see what Ferry decides on. You never know when you'll find a gem anymore than the next time you even find a decent big man...

 

[Jon]

I think it's been 4 years since Michael Young has posted anything that long, detailed, and explanatory. I even would have rep'd him if he at least admitted the possibility of playing Andy at C next to a scoring PF (hopefully JJ).

 

[bomber]

I hate the whole +/- game. It's not a true indicator to me, it just one small tool that can be used. Some use the +/- as a decide all factor for a player and that grinds my gears.

So Z + 28 and Lebron +5, means Z is the more effective player?

PlusMinus or +/-: "It should be noted that this is more a team stat than an individual one, but it is interesting to look at." (http://popcornmachine.net/help.html)

I also question popcornmachines validity with stats at a quick glance, with something so simple as pts, they're off with Lebron's point total from game 5.

+/- is too simple and basic of a stat. This whole Ben, Z argument doesn't account that we all know ben is a defensive, situational player. The +/- doesn't take into account who plays with whom, bench players, runs, lulls, efficiency,defensive assignments, etc..

A true barometer would be, Howard's point output vs Z vs Howard's point output vs Ben.

I like Z, I just think 32mpg is too many and his more effective range is 25mpg.

It should also be noted, that in the 4th quarter of game 5 we mostly went small and won the quarter and the game. 34-23. Z played all of 1:58 that quarter.

I'm not advocating one train of thought or another, there needs to be a nice and well thought out mix and compliment of each. It's all dependent on the game, situations, etc..