Zydrunas Rebounds His Way To Cav Record

[Karma]

Thankyou Maximus. So haters, it would pay to listen to my mate Pip. Pick your fights. Critisising Ilgauskas on offensive rebounds leaves you looking a tad silly. This thread was about Ilgauskas breaking an all time record for the Cavaliers. This is a great achievement whether you like or dislike the guy. Your whole "padding" or "volleyball" arguement has little substance.

So try again another time, maybe in an area of weakness, rather then something where he has proven to be the best alltime Cavalier and at times, best in the NBA.

 

[Pioneer10]

Per maximus's post Z was 4th in the league in terms of how many offensive rebounds he gets off his own missed shot. I don't see anything on whether he was close to average or not as there is no link to the article. Also it doesn't say anything about how many of those tips come off makeable shots. In fact taking as a percentage of total rebounds (not just offense) Z is 2nd in the league in terms of how many rebounds came of his own miss. Not sure how this vindicates anything.

 

[Karma]

Pioneer, I couldn't care less what rank he is in the NBA or how many are off his own misses. All that I was saying is that he wasn't offensively rebounding off his own misses like the haters were saying. I couldn't give a **** if he was 1st or 59999th in the NBA. At the end of the day he offensively rebounds other players shots at least 2 out of every 3 times. If he only rebounds his own misses like the haters state, he wouldn't have anywhere near the number of boards.

 

[Pioneer10]

Pioneer, I couldn't care less what rank he is in the NBA or how many are off his own misses. All that I was saying is that he wasn't offensively rebounding off his own misses like the haters were saying. I couldn't give a **** if he was 1st or 59999th in the NBA. At the end of the day he offensively rebounds other players shots at least 2 out of every 3 times. If he only rebounds his own misses like the haters state, he wouldn't have anywhere near the number of boards.

I couldn't care less either but it is funny that Z misses a lot of bunnies. It is funny but and not a frustration to me because he is able to get his own boards. I simply don't think you have to be a hater to not get a laugh at that.

I'm not the biggest Z fan around as he has other aspects to his game which are frustrating to me (holding his position, offensive stagnation) but I think most everyone appreciates unlike Loozer he was man enough to keep his end of his agreement with the Cavs. Show a little bit of humor to Z and keep emphasizing this aspect and Z will get the respect he deserves. I.e. I don't like Z's game but I respect it.

 

[Maximus]

Pioneer, there seems to be a huge misconception that 50-80% of Z's offensive boards come off his own missed shots....when in fact it's 1 out of 3 which is around the league average.(Clevelandrox23 said "80% of those offensive rebounds are off his own misses!") I also think the problem is that the occasional tip-drill play where Z tips it 3 or 4 times tend to get remembered more than majority of the tip plays where Z reaches over someone who has better position and tips it in on the first try.(see Dudeurkillingme's posts in this thread). And as I said before, the only damage that Z causes by tipping the ball 10 times on a play(if he doesn't convert) is the change of ONE possession...and to his FG%.

As for him missing a lot of bunnies, let's look at how he did shooting all last year. He shot 39% on outside jumpers and 59% on everything else inside. He shot 55% on close range shots, 92% on dunks, and 54% on "tips".

Here's a breakdown of Z's shots in 05-06
http://www.82games.com/0506/05CLE17A.HTM
Jump 41% .387
Close 41% .555
Dunk 6% .922
Tips 12% .545
Inside 59% .589


Here are the "tip leaders" from last season. Not only was he the clear leader in the "tips" category, but he had one of the better % in the league.

Player Team FGM FGA
Ilgauskas CLE 52 96 .542
Chandler CHI 29 59 .492
Dampier DAL 27 51 .529
Bogut MIL 25 51 .490
Mihm LAL 22 39 .564
Gooden CLE 22 49 .449
Randolph POR 21 37 .568
Webber PHI 19 37 .514
Brezec CHA 19 38 .500
Haywood WAS 18 27 .667
Camby DEN 18 35 .514
B.Wallace DET 18 47 .383


I guess I just see no reason for Z to be criticized for his offensive rebounding or his tipping ability. They both only help the team and make life for our opponents much more difficult.

 

[Jon]

Because everyone would prefer to see him just grab the dang ball and jam it back in to the hoop....

 

[Maximus]

Here are three play-by-play examples from that game that show why Z got so many offensive rebounds that night. Half of his 12 offensive rebounds were recorded during these three examples. They resulted in Z scoring ZERO points! Please stop being an ignorant "homer" and educate yourself!

7:12 Ilgauskas Jump Shot: Missed Block: Randolph (1 BLK)
7:10 Ilgauskas Rebound (Off:2 Def
7:07 Ilgauskas Layup Shot: Missed Block: Dalembert (1 BLK)

4:52 Ilgauskas Tip Shot: Missed
4:52 Ilgauskas Rebound (Off:3 Def:1)
4:51 Ilgauskas Tip Shot: Missed
4:51 Ilgauskas Rebound (Off:4 Def:1)
4:49 Ilgauskas Tip Shot: Missed

11:37 Ilgauskas Rebound (Off:6 Def:1)
11:35 Ilgauskas Layup Shot: Missed
11:33 Ilgauskas Tip Shot: Missed
11:33 Ilgauskas Rebound (Off:7 Def:1)
11:32 Ilgauskas Tip Shot: Missed
11:32 Ilgauskas Rebound (Off:8 Def:1)

As angry as this makes you, the net result was two changes in possessions that resulted in ZERO points for Philly and one where we kept possession and Anderson scored. Not a big deal if you ask me.
And since you chose to analyze 3 possessions of this game let's look at 5 other possession you chose to leave out---

1st quarter
8:11 James Layup Shot: Missed
8:09 [CLE 4-10] Ilgauskas Follow Up Dunk: Made (4 PTS)
8:09 Ilgauskas Rebound (Off:1 Def:0)

2nd quarter
7:39 Jones Jump Shot: Missed
7:37 Ilgauskas Rebound (Off:9 Def:1)
7:33 [CLE 31-28] Varejao Layup Shot: Made (6 PTS)
Assist: Ilgauskas (2 AST)

4:44 James Layup Shot: Missed
4:43 [CLE 36-36] Ilgauskas Tip Shot: Made (8 PTS)
4:43 Ilgauskas Rebound (Off:10 Def:1)

3rd quarter
10:00 James Jump Shot: Missed
9:58 Ilgauskas Rebound (Off:11 Def:2)
9:40 [CLE 56-42] Ilgauskas Hook Shot: Made (14 PTS)

6:37 James Jump Shot: Missed
6:35 Ilgauskas Rebound (Off:12 Def:2)
6:25 [CLE 63-50] James Slam Dunk Shot: Made (11 PTS)

 

[Maximus]

Because everyone would prefer to see him just grab the dang ball and jam it back in to the hoop....

Jon, me too. But, he isn't Shaq. Z has lost much of his ability to jump and tipping the ball has become his game. Again, all people want to remember is the occasional ugly volleyball play. Quite often he is reaching over people that have better position and keeping the ball alive or tipping it in....grabbing the ball and putting himself in position to dunk it isn't even an opition. Dunking the ball when you are at close range isn't always an option even when your name is Shaq, let alone when you have Z's feet. I think he should dunk more, part of it may be mental as a way to avoid injury.

 

[Pioneer10]

The problem with the 82games stats is they don't classify anything about how easy a shot is to begin with.

i.e. look at the percentage of tipped in shots versus dunks but if you really want to see who can finish look at the percentage of shots they took:

Z only attempted 6% of his shots as dunks. Part of that is that he is asked to shoot from the outside but he still has a high percentage of close in shots. Compare this to another jumpshooting big guy like Camby who shoots MORE jumpers then Z but still attempts twice more dunks (13%). Let alone compared to a great finisher around the hoop like Howard who attempts 30% of his shots as dunks this year. This is the frustration with Z sure he does good with tips but those shots should be dunks. Just look at you're own post Z attempts twice as many tips as anybody else.

Look I'm not trying to knock Z here, I'll say it again I admire his persistence in coming back from injuries but he isn't a great finisher. Does he get boards off other people's misses. Yes. Is it valuable. Yes. Is it frustrating that he goes into tip drills which at shooting an eFG of 0.54 when he should be going in for a dunk. Yes. Is it better that he goes into a tip drill instead of giving up on the play. Yes. Was Z a better finisher before his foot injuries and many posters are just remembering the short term. Yes.

*Finally I love 82games.com: but I wonder how consistent there game charters are across games and teams. Per them they say Yao attemted ZERO% of his shots as tips last year which is absolutely ridiculous