The Cavs vs Bulls Series

[godfather]

Come on. You already know you need a player who can break down players in the playoffs without rose who can do that. Gosal isn't young anymore to carry a team and Butler isn't a 1st option. Playoffs are different.

But on Rose I think he will come back better. Apparently that knee has been a problem most of the year. You could tell which games he looked bad in to. He would usually take 7-9 3s that's not his game he probably wasn't felling right. But in games where he went to the basket he showed he still had that speed. The repair can have him fresh for the playoffs which will result in him attacking again.

You're talking as if Rose is a legit go-to player like he was years ago. He's not.

And did the Spurs not just win a championship recently, without a legit go-to player that can break down the defense? I don't really count Parker as that anymore, he's capable of doing it, but that's not why they won a title.

Oh please, Rose coming back better than ever is a myth.

Gasol is better than Rose. I don't know how anyone can seriously argue that.

 

[And1]

I wouldn't become a full time member at CavsFanatic even if I got a weekly salary for doing so.

Good don't

 

[Jordan]

Come on. You already know you need a player who can break down players in the playoffs without rose who can do that. Gosal isn't young anymore to carry a team and Butler isn't a 1st option. Playoffs are different.

But on Rose I think he will come back better. Apparently that knee has been a problem most of the year. You could tell which games he looked bad in to. He would usually take 7-9 3s that's not his game he probably wasn't felling right. But in games where he went to the basket he showed he still had that speed. The repair can have him fresh for the playoffs which will result in him attacking again.

I think you are underestimating how good Gasol has played this year. Chicago probably has the best frontcourt rotation in the NBA. If Butler can start playing like he did the first half of the season the Bulls may actually make some noise in the playoffs. I don't necessarily think they are better without Rose but you can definitely make a cogent argument why they could be.

 

[randymoss1881]

I think you are underestimating how good Gasol has played this year. Chicago probably has the best frontcourt rotation in the NBA. If Butler can start playing like he did the first half of the season the Bulls may actually make some noise in the playoffs. I don't necessarily think they are better without Rose but you can definitely make a cogent argument why they could be.

I agree on Gosal I'm just saying they need rose a player from the wing to create also for them to win it all

 

[Bulls_fan]

I am going to go out on a limb, and say the Bulls might actually be better without Derrick Rose. I watched a lot of that game last night, the way they moved the ball is beautiful.

When the offense is run through Gasol, it just opens up the game for everyone. I think people underestimate how good Gasol really is. The guy is a future hall of famer and has two rings for a reason. Heck, the second ring he got, I thought he was more valuable than Kobe Bryant that season.

He's better than Derrick Rose ever was, IMO.

The guy is a great passer, with elite post skills. That's just a nightmare for any team to go up against. He's really found the fountain of youth again.

You surround him with deadly shooters, and a healthy Butler, they are going to be dangerous.

I think the worst thing that can happen to the Bulls, is that Rose comes back, ruins their continuity. I rather face a Bulls team running the offense through Rose than Gasol personally. Both Gasol and Noah are willing, and great passers at their position.

So I am rooting for Rose to come back, and screw it up. The Bulls should just get rid of him this off-season. The guy is not good, always injured, and takes up a shit load of salary.

I come here in peace.

Anyways, the reason the Bulls play better without Rose is that everybody else now senses some urgency. The team was half assing it until the playoffs, openly admitting to not giving their full effort on D numerous times. Now that Rose is out, the team actually needs to give their best effort to win, and that is what you're seeing.

You're also seeing Joakim Noah coming back to life. He simply takes off when facing adversity. No Deng? Time to step up and lead. No Rose or Butler? Time to step up and lead.

You are mistaken if you want to play us with Rose. The Bulls without Rose have no shot against you. The Bulls with him have a shot.

You're also massively overrating Pau Gasol. While he is a good offensive player, his defense is pretty bad. He refuses to leave the painted area and will consistently give up open looks from anywhere else on the court.

 

[All4One1ForAll]

I come here in peace.

Anyways, the reason the Bulls play better without Rose is that everybody else now senses some urgency. The team was half assing it until the playoffs, openly admitting to not giving their full effort on D numerous times. Now that Rose is out, the team actually needs to give their best effort to win, and that is what you're seeing.

You're also seeing Joakim Noah coming back to life. He simply takes off when facing adversity. No Deng? Time to step up and lead. No Rose or Butler? Time to step up and lead.

You are mistaken if you want to play us with Rose. The Bulls without Rose have no shot against you. The Bulls with him have a shot.

You're also massively overrating Pau Gasol. While he is a good offensive player, his defense is pretty bad. He refuses to leave the painted area and will consistently give up open looks from anywhere else on the court.

It just seems like sometimes Rose is a detriment to the Bulls when on the floor. For someone shooting 40.7% FG and 28.7% on threes, 19.6 shots per 36 and 6.3 3P attempts is just ridiculous. His 1.57 Assist/Turnover ratio is also horrific for a point guard.

He has only 1.3 Win Shares this entire season, a Net Raing of -10, a Box Plus/Minus of -1.3, and a VORP of .3.

I actually hope Rose comes back healthier and better because it would make a Cavs-Bulls series more fun and competitive, but from what I've seen so far, Rose doesn't look to be making the Bulls a better team.

 

[Bulls_fan]

It just seems like sometimes Rose is a detriment to the Bulls when on the floor. For someone shooting 40.7% FG and 28.7% on threes, 19.6 shots per 36 and 6.3 3P attempts is just ridiculous. His 1.57 Assist/Turnover ratio is also horrific for a point guard.

He has only 1.3 Win Shares this entire season, a Net Raing of -10, a Box Plus/Minus of -1.3, and a VORP of .3.

I actually hope Rose comes back healthier and better because it would make a Cavs-Bulls series more fun and competitive, but from what I've seen so far, Rose doesn't look to be making the Bulls a better team.

He has been up and down, but the key thing is that his athleticism is fully back. It seems to me that his game conditioning is rather weak though. He plays better when given more days of rest and will tend to jack up 3s in the 2nd of back to backs or during a period with a lot of games. It has gotten better, but not fully there yet. You would think that that is the easiest part of the game to come back to you, but I guess when you play it so cautiously, you never actually get into that great game shape. We'll see what happens come playoff time, but I honestly see this year as a "get used to playing ball" year for Rose, with next year being our best team.

 

[godfather]

I come here in peace.

Anyways, the reason the Bulls play better without Rose is that everybody else now senses some urgency. The team was half assing it until the playoffs, openly admitting to not giving their full effort on D numerous times. Now that Rose is out, the team actually needs to give their best effort to win, and that is what you're seeing.

You're also seeing Joakim Noah coming back to life. He simply takes off when facing adversity. No Deng? Time to step up and lead. No Rose or Butler? Time to step up and lead.

You are mistaken if you want to play us with Rose. The Bulls without Rose have no shot against you. The Bulls with him have a shot.

You're also massively overrating Pau Gasol. While he is a good offensive player, his defense is pretty bad. He refuses to leave the painted area and will consistently give up open looks from anywhere else on the court.

I am simply saying, I fear a Bulls team running the offense through Gasol much more than Derrick Rose. We honestly have no answer really for Pau Gasol. He can have his way against us.

If Derrick comes back, hijacks the offense, I am more than find with that. I don't care how explosive he's looked temporarily against us this season. The Bulls have no chance beating us, if Derrick Rose tries to hijack the offense from everyone else, and beat us solo.

A team has no chance beating us with their wing players, I am sorry, LeBron and Kyrie are too good. Now, if a team like the Bulls, that has a very lethal front court utilizes that, then an entirely different ball game.

By the way, if anyone was watching the Atlanta game, causal fans that is. Atlanta attacked us with their front line, and it showed our one vulnerability.

If Rose comes back to be a complementary piece, that's good for the Bulls, but if he comes back to hijack the offense, that's bad. Maybe it will work against other teams, but it won't against us.

 

[Bulls_fan]

I am simply saying, I fear a Bulls team running the offense through Gasol much more than Derrick Rose. We honestly have no answer really for Pau Gasol. He can have his way against us.

If Derrick comes back, hijacks the offense, I am more than find with that. I don't care how explosive he's looked temporarily against us this season. The Bulls have no chance beating us, if Derrick Rose tries to hijack the offense from everyone else, and beat us solo.

A team has no chance beating us with their wing players, I am sorry, LeBron and Kyrie are too good. Now, if a team like the Bulls, that has a very lethal front court utilizes that, then an entirely different ball game.

By the way, if anyone was watching the Atlanta game, causal fans that is. Atlanta attacked us with their front line, and it showed our one vulnerability.

If Rose comes back to be a complementary piece, that's good for the Bulls, but if he comes back to hijack the offense, that's bad. Maybe it will work against other teams, but it won't against us.

I am not sure what you mean by hijack the offense. Jack up a bunch of threes and force up 30 shots? I agree. But if he plays his game(similar to our last matchup) then I don't see how Rose is hijacking the offense and lessening the Bulls' chances. If anything, I think that is our only shot at winning against you guys.

 

[godfather]

I am not sure what you mean by hijack the offense. Jack up a bunch of threes and force up 30 shots? I agree. But if he plays his game(similar to our last matchup) then I don't see how Rose is hijacking the offense and lessening the Bulls' chances. If anything, I think that is our only shot at winning against you guys.

Derrick Rose has a bad habit stopping ball movement at times, and let's be realistic, he's not that greatest at getting others involved either. It all depends on what Derrick Rose is willing to accept. He's not a superstar player anymore. If he can play within the Bulls system, he can definitely be an asset.

To me, the Bulls should run the offense through Gasol/Noah every time. Gasol is 7 feet tall, elite post skills, and passes the ball so nice. That's a nightmare for us to go against, because if the ball is moving from side-to-side, and everyone is touching it, then that's how a team is going to beat us.

If ball movement stops, and Derrick Rose just goes one-on-one a lot, the Bulls would be in trouble against us. Isolation teams won't beat LeBron in the playoffs. Maybe a game, or two, but not 4. He's too good, he's the best in the game. It makes his job easier on defense, and he's always going to win that game.

But when everyone is involved, and you have size down low that slows down the tempo, that changes things.

I don't think LB has ever lost a playoff series, at least in the prime of his career to a team that didn't at least have a really good, to elite big man.

 

[godfather]

What concerns me is we have no answer for Gasol. Fans thought Mozzy shut him down when you guys came to Cleveland, but Gasol kept going to the post, trying to body up Mozzy, and that's not going to work. Mozzy used his length and strength, and just punished him on the block.

But when we came to Chicago, Gasol adjusted, he started extending him out to 15 to 17 feet. I love Mozzy, but he's really old-school, he doesn't like to leave the paint, and if you extend him out from the free throw line, you can abuse him. He gets out there late, at times he just leaves his man completely. He did it to Gasol, and it was brutal.

Kevin Love and Tristan can't guard Gasol at all either. He's too long, and can just go over them at will at anytime. It's a just problem we have no real answer to. And Gasol is still playing the game at a very high level, offensively at least. He's just a willing passer too. A guy like him can do a lot of damage against us.

 

[Bulls_fan]

Derrick Rose has a bad habit stopping ball movement at times, and let's be realistic, he's not that greatest at getting others involved either. It all depends on what Derrick Rose is willing to accept. He's not a superstar player anymore. If he can play within the Bulls system, he can definitely be an asset.

To me, the Bulls should run the offense through Gasol/Noah every time. Gasol is 7 feet tall, elite post skills, and passes the ball so nice. That's a nightmare for us to go against, because if the ball is moving from side-to-side, and everyone is touching it, then that's how a team is going to beat us.

If ball movement stops, and Derrick Rose just goes one-on-one a lot, the Bulls would be in trouble against us. Isolation teams won't beat LeBron in the playoffs. Maybe a game, or two, but not 4. He's too good, he's the best in the game. It makes his job easier on defense, and he's always going to win that game.

But when everyone is involved, and you have size down low that slows down the tempo, that changes things.

I don't think LB has ever lost a playoff series, at least in the prime of his career to a team that didn't at least have a really good, to elite big man.

The lack of ball movement has more to do with the offense the Bulls would run. To start the season, the Bulls went with a read and react offense. Then around December, they switched to a primarily isolation offense. There was no movement, just a bunch of isolations. Fair to say, they struggled mightily with that. Sometime in February(a game against the Pelicans is when they did this) they moved back to a motion offense and it made everybody look good, including Rose. The ball stopped sticking in his hands and he looked fairly good, even when his shot wasn't falling. When it was falling, he looked elite.

 

[randymoss1881]

With rose it was rather simple. When he went to the basket he looked good when he threw up 6+ 3s he looked terrible. Id guess that was when his knee would flare up.

 

[Jscc]

Haven't been there. Is it THAT bad?

I really like this forum though. I mean yes, there are occasional kneejerk reaction and overreactions but that is natural with sports forums. But no cynicism or abuses involved.

RCF makes CF look like a sewer. CF is really really bad and really really embarrassing.

You couldn't pay me to post there either.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Depth in the playoffs is severely over-rated. We had deep teams before LBJ left, but we lacked the top-heavy talent necessary to win championships.


7 Quality guys and two wild-cards who can do at least one thing decently and soak a few minutes here and there. You can win a title with that formula. In-fact, that's how it's usually done.