Brendan Haywood's Trade Exception

[BimboColesHair]

I still think Thompson is getting slotted for a lot of playing time at center, but as we have seen the past three years, Thompson can only do this against certain opponents. If Haywood is healthy, we won't have to endure Valanciuinas or Hibbert getting manned up by Thompson. Thompson is a little undersized to be a PF, let alone a center, but like Malik Rose or Dale Davis he makes up for it with toughness and athleticism. He just can't do it against the biggest and most skilled centers in the game. Haywood and his size create more options against real centers.

Et tu, Keys?

 

[Randolphkeys]

Et tu, Keys?

Um, yeah, he is 6'9 and was recruited out of high school as a "forward tweener who needed to work on a perimeter game" according to Rivals. There are plenty of 6'9 power forwards, but at center he has already shown that he struggles with 7 footers who have spins and counters.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Um, yeah, he is 6'9 and was recruited out of high school as a "forward tweener who needed to work on a perimeter game" according to Rivals. There are plenty of 6'9 power forwards, but at center he has already shown that he struggles with 7 footers who have spins and counters.

Considering his standing reach was taller than Anthony Davis' at the combine (and they play the game with their arms up) and the weight difference between the two, should I consider Davis undersized as well, or is the height of the top of his head more important? I'm just not a fan of saying someone is undersized by listing their height in basketball. Also, I want to know if the 6'10 they are now listing Tristan at is legit. If it is, is he still undersized in your eyes?

Edit: apologies for sidetracking the Haywood thread

 

[Cavatt]

Is kyrie oversized because he is 6'3"? I guess Dwight is undersized because he is 6'11"?

Tristan has over a 7 foot wingspan. Center might be hi best option with his skill set. Just funny that he is undersized, but Lebron isn't and neither is Marion.

I think Tristan needs reps at the position. Andy was "not able to play center" until he got some reps there and he got really good.

I'm optimistic they can make the 5 work this year. This is not nearly as dire as what Miami had at the 4-5 spots. Bird man is not as good as Tristan. He just looked that way because he was completely ignored.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Considering his standing reach was taller than Anthony Davis' at the combine (and they play the game with their arms up) and the weight difference between the two, should I consider Davis undersized as well, or is the height of the top of his head more important? I'm just not a fan of saying someone is undersized by listing their height in basketball. Also, I want to know if the 6'10 they are now listing Tristan at is legit. If it is, is he still undersized in your eyes?

Edit: apologies for sidetracking the Haywood thread

The way he defended centers made me think he is undersized. Aaron Gray worked him in the post last year. Tape measures weren't used, he just backed him down and scored. And as I mentioned in another thread, we won't know if Thompson has worked on those issues until a month or two from now... but the Cavaliers brass saw what I saw or else they wouldn't have tried so hard for help in the paint.

 

[Pioneer10]

The way he defended centers made me think he is undersized. Aaron Gray worked him in the post last year. Tape measures weren't used, he just backed him down and scored. And as I mentioned in another thread, we won't know if Thompson has worked on those issues until a month or two from now... but the Cavaliers brass saw what I saw or else they wouldn't have tried so hard for help in the paint.

I'm with you, it's not the measurements but how it translates onto the court. A guy like Chuck Hayes is clearly undersized but man he can body up and play big on most any post-up big man back in the day. The same thing on offense with Love who doesn't have great height or length but is able to use body to box out and play bigger then he is. Tristan has had trouble with big guys whether they be C or PF/C types and it's reflected in his stats.

In terms of just PF's, I don't think Tristan is undersized but more to the point he doesn't have a physical advantage over most PF's either (i.e. exceptional length or girth).

 

[SalvadoranCavsfan]

In terms of just PF's, I don't think Tristan is undersized but more to the point he doesn't have a physical advantage over most PF's either (i.e. exceptional length or girth).

Come on, I know Tristan isn't the best power forward out there, but that's just a low blow.

 

[Lee]

Come on, I know Tristan isn't the best power forward out there, but that's just a low blow.

Pioneer isnt wrong, on the one hand he is black, but on the other hand he is Canadian....the two kind of wash out when it comes to girth or length.

 

[tn819]

Little talk of Haywoods antics from the Wizards-Cavs series of the past on this forum that led to him being called Brenda. Funny how time smooths over the rough patches

 

[adam81king]

Little talk of Haywoods antics from the Wizards-Cavs series of the past on this forum that led to him being called Brenda. Funny how time smooths over the rough patches

No one has talked about his refusal to come to the Cavaliers when he was drafted, either. We originally drafted him and traded him for Michael Doleac. I remember hearing him talk shit about the Cavaliers at the time. Now he's practically begging to be on the team.

 

[TyGuy]

The way he defended centers made me think he is undersized. Aaron Gray worked him in the post last year. Tape measures weren't used, he just backed him down and scored. And as I mentioned in another thread, we won't know if Thompson has worked on those issues until a month or two from now... but the Cavaliers brass saw what I saw or else they wouldn't have tried so hard for help in the paint.

Now that the beast, Aaaron Gray, has made his return to the eastern conference, we are absolutely screwed.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

No one has talked about his refusal to come to the Cavaliers when he was drafted, either. We originally drafted him and traded him for Michael Doleac. I remember hearing him talk shit about the Cavaliers at the time. Now he's practically begging to be on the team.

That was a draft day trade meaning the Cavs never intended to keep him. The Cavs "drafting" him is simply semantics but he was really the Magics pick

 

[LuNcHBoX]

No one has talked about his refusal to come to the Cavaliers when he was drafted, either. We originally drafted him and traded him for Michael Doleac. I remember hearing him talk shit about the Cavaliers at the time. Now he's practically begging to be on the team.

Whether that is accurate or not you also have to look at how dramatically different that team was compared to what this team is. Can't blame anyone for wanting to be here right now and not back then considering how horrific it was.

 

[Randolphkeys]

My understanding was that after taking Diop in the lottery and Mihm the previous year, they wanted a veteran big to teach them the ropes. Haywood would have been a third project center. I didn't like the plan, but that was the logic behind it.

 

[Kypus]

I still dislike Brenda from her Wizard days. I wouldn't say she is tough as I would say dirty. As long as she can help us win, I'm down.

Yeah. I think that sums up how most of us old timers feel about the guy.

He isn't going to be the exact type of rim protector we as fans typically envision, but Haywood is a big dude who plays physical. He will alter shots and hammer guards / forwards who want to drive to the basket. But he's also a big, old, slow injury-plagued stiff who is a non-factor on the offensive end of the floor. So, lets hope the help surrounding him can mask some of his deficiencies. Either way, anything the Cavs get from Haywood is gravy a this point. He's better than any alternative on the roster and he limits the Cavs need to play Tristan at the 5 as often.

Agreed 110%. Having had a chip fracture in my foot in 6th grade and running on it for over a week without knowing it was there, I don't think the foot fracture is going to have much effect (a first for me- I know) on where he's at physically right now, today. It's more about "how much he was giving the Charlotte Bobcats when he went down a year and a half ago?"...which on paper doesn't look like much. 17 starts out of 61 games... Who was he playing behind- Bismack Biyombo and McBob...can anyone shed any light on how he was moving and playing then? Because it looks like he was pretty much toast, but still effectively clogging up the lane (avg 6.1 REB/1.4 BLK (49 total blocks).

I'm cautiously optimistic the possibility of him getting over this minor injury and giving us this gravy- but it feels like that late 90s/early 2000s "maybe this Diop will be good" misplaced optimism... I look forward to seeing how he moves at the scrimmage.