Cavs inquired on Love, Aldridge and Gasols?

[AuxiliaryPie]

Merry Christmas all. Hate to be the scrooge to say this...

But if this had been the plan all along, then we probably should have drafted the BPA with every draft pick after Kyrie.

I could see Minnesota or Portland valuing a trade with JV or Drummond much higher than what CG is calling with at the moment.

(Shrug)

Carry on

Because we knew AV would become the best rebounder in the league, average a double double and be healthy...

 

[Triumph36]

Not sure i would call Dion Waiters and a 1st rounder "stuff"

a mid-late 1st rounder*

but the point still remains. they either tear it down now or contend now. any deal involving gasol + stuff (ie: not elite young talent or very good veterans; neither of which are really feasible in any deal) does nothing to advance them on either path.

by the time dion is at all ready to truly contribute to a contending team, gasol and ak are going to be 35. so again, including him in a deal accomplishes nothing towards contending now and essentially makes including gasol completely redundant.

if they don't have more direction (either up or down), there is no reason to trade love in the first place.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

I wouldn't call that a Scrooge statement cause I don't know that this is the "plan". I'm sure Grant and co. are taking players they are happy to have on their team (our opinions notwithstanding), but if an opportunity to grab a big name, you round up your assets and make a pitch.

Ignore what Drummond looks like now... At the time of the draft, if you truly valued another player over him, you can't just take the dude you think other guys will want hoping they'll trade for him. If you do, then you're Houston. It's insanely fortunate they ended up with Harden, cause after the Dwight train derailed, they were about to be in a deep hole with players they don't want.

You draft BPA no matter what, was the sentiment behind the post.

Goes to show that you dont draft to construct a roster, you draft BPA (like the Rockets, but not a glut at any position like TWolves) and let the chips fall where they may when the GMs give you call.

 

[mofire]

I don't think to Wolves would shop love at the trade deadline this year even if they fell apart, I think thats a move an organization would make in the summer. With that said if the Wolves do not make the playoffs this year I could see them trading Love in the offseason. However the only way for the Cavs to pull off a trade for love is to trade Andy sometime in the near future and attain a couple nice young players and draft picks. That should give us enough ammunition to pull of a big time trade for a star that may come available.

 

[theSTEREO.]

You draft BPA no matter what, was the sentiment behind the post.

Goes to show that you dont draft to construct a roster, you draft BPA (like the Rockets, but not a glut at any position like TWolves) and let the chips fall where they may when the GMs give you call.

I agree completely. I'm just saying regardless of our opinions, if Grant truly believed Dion was BPA, whether that's based on Drummonds bad college numbers, attitude, whatever, then he did the right thing. Did he evaluate right? Maybe maybe not. But he made the proper play if that's the case.

The only time I'm ok with not taking BPA is when you have a bonafide star in the making at that position. For instance, I would have been disappointed if the Cavs took Lillard because of Kyrie. At that point you trade the pick and move down if Lillard should go in that spot.

But like this year, if Shabazz is BPA, you take him regardless of Dion. You try and fit him into your scheme, and if it doesn't work, either player is a strong trade chip.

 

[Jack Brickman]

You draft BPA no matter what, was the sentiment behind the post.

Goes to show that you dont draft to construct a roster, you draft BPA (like the Rockets, but not a glut at any position like TWolves) and let the chips fall where they may when the GMs give you call.

As theSTEREO said, how do you know the Cavs didn't consider Dion the BPA when they drafted him? Drummond may look good so far this year, but he had more red flags than just about any player I can remember coming into the draft. People questioned his inability to dominate in college despite being bigger and more athletic than everyone he played against. They questioned his work ethic and motor (two enormous red flags for a big man). They questioned whether or not he even loved basketball.

There's a reason a guy with Drummond's gifts fell to nine, and it wasn't the failing of every other GM in the top ten. It's because he was a legitimately terrifying prospect who had probably the highest bust potential of anyone in the lottery.

Further, if we bring in the advanced metrics argument, Dion was the best player available at four. We're all fairly sure the Cavs are an organization that values advanced metrics, so it makes sense that they took Waiters where they did. I also hesitate to project the careers of players two months into their careers. We don't know that Drummond will have a better career than Waiters, and it's pointless to pretend Drummond was a better pick 30 games into their respective careers.

 

[CleveRocks]

i think you want to qualify the statement to...."Which player will have a better career in Cleveland?"

Dwight is a superstar, but he forced his way to LA. What happens three years hence if drummond hits his top potential? Is he mature enough to stay with the organization, or is he taking his talents to South Beach, or wherever... So in my opinion, there is both downside and upside risk in drummond...

 

[Jack Brickman]

i think you want to qualify the statement to...."Which player will have a better career in Cleveland?"

Dwight is a superstar, but he forced his way to LA. What happens three years hence if drummond hits his top potential? Is he mature enough to stay with the organization, or is he taking his talents to South Beach, or wherever... So in my opinion, there is both downside and upside risk in drummond...

I really think that's a terrible way to evaluate talent. Really, any player could leave after their contract is up. What if Kyrie decides to bolt after his extension? Should we have drafted Derrick Williams instead? What if Dion becomes an amazing player and decides he'd rather play in his hometown for the Sixers? You could literally do this for every player we draft from here until eternity.

You either draft who you believe is the BPA or draft for fit using the tiering system, at least as far as the lottery is concerned.

 

[Triumph36]

People questioned his inability to dominate in college despite being bigger and more athletic than everyone he played against. They questioned his work ethic and motor (two enormous red flags for a big man). They questioned whether or not he even loved basketball.

There's a reason a guy with Drummond's gifts fell to nine, and it wasn't the failing of every other GM in the top ten. It's because he was a legitimately terrifying prospect who had probably the highest bust potential of anyone in the lottery.

lol, if drummond pans out then fuck yes it was the failing of every gm in the top ten (save for the hornets, for obv reasons).

the damn job of a gm is to decide the legitimacy of certain red flags. just because some scout (team-employed or not), some draft website, or whoever claims this or that true does not make it so.

the pistons coaching staff has been raving about drummond's work ethic and motor, which also wouldn't be possible if he didn't love the game. everyone who said those were reasons not to draft him is left looking like an idiot.

i think you want to qualify the statement to...."Which player will have a better career in Cleveland?"

Dwight is a superstar, but he forced his way to LA. What happens three years hence if drummond hits his top potential? Is he mature enough to stay with the organization, or is he taking his talents to South Beach, or wherever... So in my opinion, there is both downside and upside risk in drummond...

leaving a team that has little (in howard's case) to no (in lbj's case) future doesn't mean that player lacks "maturity"

it's been said a million times here and elsewhere, but if you actually give a player a reason to stay he very likely will ffs.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

Further, if we bring in the advanced metrics argument, Dion was the best player available at four. We're all fairly sure the Cavs are an organization that values advanced metrics, so it makes sense that they took Waiters where they did. I also hesitate to project the careers of players two months into their careers. We don't know that Drummond will have a better career than Waiters, and it's pointless to pretend Drummond was a better pick 30 games into their respective careers.

You are having a discussion with yourself, with a strawman argument.

This thread is not about debating career projections. It is, in fact, about debating the worth of our assets on December 25th, 2012. 30 games into the season. Just this past week, it was reported that the Cavs have been busy gauging the interest of 3 of the games top PFs. None of the three would be available without us including some young talent, so the perceived value of our assets is what I am talking about. Do we know what that value is? No. Which is why I called in to question in my original post, whether or not some here felt that guys we passed on were better trade chips than guys we drafted, and whether or not that should have been a priority knowing that we would have the flexibilty to make moves in the very near future.

So for the sake of this discussion, the value of our prospects 30 games into their careers means everything.

You are David Kahn, Kuptchak or Olshey in Portland... would you take a JV or Drummond over a Waiters and Thompson as part of a package for your PF that you are willing to trade?

The rarity of a C will always make them more valuable as prospects and that is what we are selling at the moment.

 

[Jack Brickman]

You are having a discussion with yourself, with a strawman argument.

This thread is not about debating career projections. It is, in fact, about debating the worth of our assets on December 25th, 2012. 30 games into the season. Just this past week, it was reported that the Cavs have been busy gauging the interest of 3 of the games top PFs. None of the three would be available without us including some young talent, so the perceived value of our assets is what I am talking about. Do we know what that value is? No. Which is why I called in to question in my original post, whether or not some here felt that guys we passed on were better trade chips than guys we drafted, and whether or not that should have been a priority knowing that we would have the flexibilty to make moves in the very near future.

So for the sake of this discussion, the value of our prospects 30 games into their careers means everything.

You are David Kahn, Kuptchak or Olshey in Portland... would you take a JV or Drummond over a Waiters and Thompson as part of a package for your PF that you are willing to trade?

The rarity of a C will always make them more valuable as prospects and that is what we are selling at the moment.

But you seem to be assuming the Cavs drafted with the sole intent to trade their prospects at a later date, and that's just not the case.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

But you seem to be assuming the Cavs drafted with the sole intent to trade their prospects at a later date, and that's just not the case.

I dont assume that at all. That makes you feel better about this discussion, but I would never say that.

In fact, Drummond is exceeding my expectations for his ability to already play elite D and rebound, so I dont think I would even trade him for Aldridge or Gasol for sure, and Id have to think long and hard before dealing him for Love. So no, I dont think you draft to trade, but if you take the best player available and then see he doesnt compliment what you are doing, then you can get much more.

I feel like Browns/NFL draft talk is starting to bleed over into the reconstruct of this team, and in this league, it really should not.

 

[Jack Brickman]

I dont assume that at all. That makes you feel better about this discussion, but I would never say that.

In fact, Drummond is exceeding my expectations for his ability to already play elite D and rebound, so I dont think I would even trade him for Aldridge or Gasol for sure, and Id have to think long and hard before dealing him for Love. So no, I dont think you draft to trade, but if you take the best player available and then see he doesnt compliment what you are doing, then you can get much more.

I feel like Browns/NFL draft talk is starting to bleed over into the reconstruct of this team, and in this league, it really should not.

But then, of course, that assumes the Cavs thought Drummond was the best player available. If the Cavs thought Waiters was the BPA, then they did in fact draft the BPA. After Anthony Davis, there was a great deal of debate over who the best players were, and until you actually see these guys play in the NBA, it's all subjective anyway.

 

[Joe Henderson]

Before yet another thread veers irrevocably into the twighlight zone inhabited by Valanciunas, Drummond and Tristan's blocked shots, let me quickly get back to the OP for a bit...

At first glance, given that Lloyd is the source, the piece seems to be some sort of exercise by the Cavs. At worst, it is a PR balloon to show the fans that they have an active and ambitious front office, shooting for the stars and leaving no stone unturned. Throwing some big names out there just when the team's horrible performance threatens to turn a lot of people off... That's a pretty old play. Keep interest up, keep the message board buzzing, give people something to talk about and look forward to...

At best, it's a message to other teams. A few particular ones, to nudge them along on discussions going on in the background, or to all of them, to set the market on Varejao. We don't really have experience with Grant running the show in terms of big trades. With Ferry, we pretty much knew that the real deal was kept well under wraps, whatever did come out was more likely to be misdirection.

That said, as some people have mentioned, the Cavs are moving into a phase where they become viable trading partners for teams looking to unload stars, for whatever reason. They have that proverbial combination of young players, draft picks and the ability to offer financial relief. I agree that at some point, they will look to use those assets in some way other than just to draft 10 first rounders in 5 years and adding a free agent or two. Should be fun.

 

[AuxiliaryPie]

Verajo not traveling to DC, still out. Consider him traded