Cavs inquired on Love, Aldridge and Gasols?

[Jack Brickman]

my thinking is if we have Kyrie (top 5 PG at only 20 years old) and Love (the best PF at only 24 years old) and cap space, we have the alure to get a guy like Mayo or Iggy to sign via free agency..yeah im definitely an optimist, but it certainly would be a possibility with KI and Love..not to mention what pans out with Dion or Zeller (assuming we lose TT to get Love)

I immediately distrust any scenario which has us relying on free agency to get us over the hump. That's a strategy that is almost destined for failure. We're Cleveland and we need to remember that. We need to either draft or trade for our stars to create a winning team and then utilize free agency to fill in the gaps. If we try to rely on free agency, we'll end up giving guys like Larry Hughes and Donyell Marshall twice what they're worth just to get them to play here like we did last time we relied on free agency.

I think the only free agent of serious merit that we will have a legitimate shot at is LeBron in 2014 (and maybe Chris Bosh if he wants to continue riding LeBron's coattails to titles), and only then because he has a history here and I think that he does want to redeem himself. We can always sign the middle-of-the-pack guys, but I won't believe we can sign a true blue-chipper in free agency until someone other than LeBron proves me wrong.

I do think that trading for Love is, right now, a pipe dream. He has zero leverage this season, and thus Kahn has zero incentive to trade him, especially for anything we have to offer that's not named Irving. We have plenty of assets, but our best ones are both young projects (Waiters and Thompson), while Kahn is under pressure to win now. Seeing as Varejao probably isn't an upgrade to Love, Kahn thus has no reason to do that deal this year.

If we trade Varejao, I think it will either be to a team that is contending (ie. Oklahoma City) or a team whose GM is on the hot seat and needs to make a move to win asap (ie. Toronto). While the Wolves do fall into that latter group, Varejao for Love just doesn't make sense unless Love is demanding a trade, which doesn't seem to be the case right now. Perhaps we could trade Varejao to the Wolves for other players, but Love just doesn't make sense.

 

[FiveThous]

I'd do anything for Love, but I won't do that.

Only took 105 posts!

 

[Dillinger]

As it pertains to Kevin Love...

I just can't see us offering Waiters in a trade. There's too much potential with him to cut ties now. Since he's off the table, that leaves Thompson or Zeller as a young fill-in for a trade. If it's between the two, Thompson would probably have to be let loose because he has slightly more value right now. And even though it's a hunch, I also think Minnesota would be more interested in TT over Zeller due to how he would fit in with their front line rotation.

Now, let's talk about the assets portion of this discussion.

Minnesota actually has a decent amount to work with the next couple years. Here's what they've got...


2013 – Owe first-rounder (top-13 protected through 2014, top-12 protected 2015 and 2016) to Phoenix Suns (Wesley Johnson).
2013 – Owe second-rounder to Portland Trail Blazers (Ramon Sessions, Harangody, Pavlovic).
2013 – Owed first-rounder (top-14 protected through 2016, after which converts to a 2016 second-rounder) from Memphis Grizzlies (Shane Battier, Jonny Flynn). The obligation to the Suns will be the lower of the Minnesota and Memphis picks.
2013 – Owed second-rounder from Brooklyn Nets (Wesley Johnson, Brad Miller, Bojan Bogdanovic).
2013 – Owed second-rounder (top-42 protected) from Oklahoma City Thunder (Lazar Hayward).
2014 – Owe second-rounder to Miami HEAT (Michael Beasley).
2014 – Owed second-rounder from New Orleans Hornets (Antonio Daniels).
2014 – Owed second-rounder from Los Angeles Lakers (Steve Nash, Wesley Johnson).


I just can't really see the Timberwolves being too interested in any of our 2nd round picks because they have quite a few already. What would they do with all of them? Maybe use them as trade chips to move up, but that's speaking with too many assumptions. It's undoubtedly going to take a 1st rounder to make this work.


With that said, here's the logistical scenarios and how I perceive them...


Varejao + Thompson = Not enough.

Varejao + Cavs unprotected 1st round pick in 2013 = Not enough.

Varejao + Thompson + Cavs unprotected 1st round pick = Too much.

Varejao + Two 1st round picks in 2013 = Just right.

Varejao + Thompson + Owed 1st round pick from Heat/Lakers/Kings = Just right.


Trading Varejao, Thompson, AND a likely top-5 pick is just too much for us to give up at this time and I also don't think Grant will do it. So, if it makes it that far, the deal could come down to whether Minnesota wants our top pick in 2013 or Thompson. Interesting decision...

Right now when you look at Varejao's and Love's stats side by side, you'll see that Andy is actually having a better all around season than Love. Yes, Varejao has had a career revival and his stats this year aren't indicative of his past numbers, but the bottom line is that Varejao isn't a "throw in player"...he's legit, and the T-Wolves would be getting a very good player in return with a feasible salary.

Will Minnesota bite? In the long run, I doubt it. They're going to try to get a LOT back for Love, and I can't see the Cavs overpaying for his services.

 

[FiveThous]

I think we are forgetting the most obvious fact here, David Stern is still commissioner and isnt going to let Love go to a small market team.

 

[Ruggeder]

It boggles my mind how people who spend so much time on basketball don't understand simple things. Teams win championships, not players. Teams go to the playoffs, not individuals. Many people (although not me) think Michael Jordan is the best ever. He didn't do anything until he had a good team. Was he bad until his team was good? No he wasn't and if you think so your an idiot. Lebron has been the best basketball player for many years, the cavs weren't the best team, does that make him bad? No, that's stupid. Kevin Love is the best PF in the game, you trade anything other then Kylie to get him. Even if we did, and i doubt he can be had, you will however need a TEAM capable of winning. The cavs FO certainly know this, and I hope they have some kind of plan going to attempt to be competitive soon. Grant's making inquiries as he should, so I have confidence he can make something happen, or at let knows something should happen soon.

 

[Ruggeder]

As it pertains to Kevin Love...

I just can't see us offering Waiters in a trade. There's too much potential with him to cut ties now. Since he's off the table, that leaves Thompson or Zeller as a young fill-in for a trade. If it's between the two, Thompson would probably have to be let loose because he has slightly more value right now. And even though it's a hunch, I also think Minnesota would be more interested in TT over Zeller due to how he would fit in with their front line rotation.

Now, let's talk about the assets portion of this discussion.

Minnesota actually has a decent amount to work with the next couple years. Here's what they've got...


2013 – Owe first-rounder (top-13 protected through 2014, top-12 protected 2015 and 2016) to Phoenix Suns (Wesley Johnson).
2013 – Owe second-rounder to Portland Trail Blazers (Ramon Sessions, Harangody, Pavlovic).
2013 – Owed first-rounder (top-14 protected through 2016, after which converts to a 2016 second-rounder) from Memphis Grizzlies (Shane Battier, Jonny Flynn). The obligation to the Suns will be the lower of the Minnesota and Memphis picks.
2013 – Owed second-rounder from Brooklyn Nets (Wesley Johnson, Brad Miller, Bojan Bogdanovic).
2013 – Owed second-rounder (top-42 protected) from Oklahoma City Thunder (Lazar Hayward).
2014 – Owe second-rounder to Miami HEAT (Michael Beasley).
2014 – Owed second-rounder from New Orleans Hornets (Antonio Daniels).
2014 – Owed second-rounder from Los Angeles Lakers (Steve Nash, Wesley Johnson).


I just can't really see the Timberwolves being too interested in any of our 2nd round picks because they have quite a few already. What would they do with all of them? Maybe use them as trade chips to move up, but that's speaking with too many assumptions. It's undoubtedly going to take a 1st rounder to make this work.


With that said, here's the logistical scenarios and how I perceive them...


Varejao + Thompson = Not enough.

Varejao + Cavs unprotected 1st round pick in 2013 = Not enough.

Varejao + Thompson + Cavs unprotected 1st round pick = Too much.

Varejao + Two 1st round picks in 2013 = Just right.

Varejao + Thompson + Owed 1st round pick from Heat/Lakers/Kings = Just right.


Trading Varejao, Thompson, AND a likely top-5 pick is just too much for us to give up at this time and I also don't think Grant will do it. So, if it makes it that far, the deal could come down to whether Minnesota wants our top pick in 2013 or Thompson. Interesting decision...

Right now when you look at Varejao's and Love's stats side by side, you'll see that Andy is actually having a better all around season than Love. Yes, Varejao has had a career revival and his stats this year aren't indicative of his past numbers, but the bottom line is that Varejao isn't a "throw in player"...he's legit, and the T-Wolves would be getting a very good player in return with a feasible salary.

Will Minnesota bite? In the long run, I doubt it. They're going to try to get a LOT back for Love, and I can't see the Cavs overpaying for his services.

If you think Andy, Thompson, and a pick is to much for Kevin Love I don't know where to begin.

 

[Triumph36]

First of all, if you are making the case that either Dwight Howard or Lebron James behaved with any kind of maturity regarding thier respective exits, I think you are smoking something.

In Lebron's case, the Cavs FO gave him lots of reason to stay, and but for an inexplicable meltdown on his part, he might have had his ring two years earlier, but instead, he chose to go to south beach. If he had been at all interested in making it work in Cleveland there was nothing the Cavs would not have done to keep him, but he never talked to the FO. He had made his "decision" with his buds, and he handled it for maximum Lebronomania.

As for Howard, his situation was worse than Lebron's. But he handled it terribly.

In any case, what I said was that Drummond's maturity was an additional risk, even if he is able to be successful on court. that is not to say either Irving or Waiters is not a risk, but it is my perception that both of them have a more mature attitude. I could be wrong, but all I am saying is that this is something you take into account when you are in rebuild. I was there when Charlotte (Then Hornets) drafted Johnson, Mourning and Kendall Gill. Lots of talent, but personailty clash city. We have drawn comparisons of our new backcourt to Thomas/Dumars on the play style similarities, but part of what worked for that team was the personal mesh between the players. Kyrie and Dions have to fit hand and glove for the team to work. This also needs to be considered when we add players to the Alchemy. Tristan fits, Zeller fits. Whoever else we pick up, but it Shabazz or Poythress or Laurence Bowers, or any free agent we bring has to fit.

Make a list of players drafted top ten in 2012 and 2011. Rank order them in terms of work ethic and professional attitude. TT will rank higher on that list than his talent evaluation. Barnes ( and Drummond for that matter ), lower. There are a lot of vectors that go into the success of a given player, and even more that go into the success of a team. Attitude and maturity are two of the many.

I never said the way they handled it was mature - I said they were correct to leave and the decision to do so was not immature whatsoever. And no, the Cavs front office really didn't. They offered him no future here - fact. It's hard to appeal to a guy who has yet to win a title when you have truly no young talent on the team and will instead rely on "LeBron featuring the over-the-hill-vets" team composition like they had been doing.

There's nothing wrong with taking maturity into account. But that doesn't mean Grant should follow everyones' beliefs claiming so and so has this many red flags without deciding for himself. Drummond was blasted many times - especially here - for supposedly being lazy and not caring about winning. And now, everyone who blasted him looks dumb. If Grant wasn't able to decide for himself and instead followed what everyone else said.....well, that's why he'll end up being one of the many who mistakenly passed on Drummond. You might say his maturity was supposedly an additional risk, and thus far Drummond has done nothing but prove you wrong.

Also, talent is far and away the most important factor. I don't care about Thompson's work ethic if he isn't capable of being a starting PF on a legitimate title contender. Thus far, he hasn't proven he's even anywhere in the ballpark. I'll happily take Drummond and even Barnes over him, despite their supposedly lower "professionalism." I guess we don't need the most talented guys tho, we can just let them win with their grit and determination!

It boggles my mind how people who spend so much time on basketball don't understand simple things. Teams win championships, not players. Teams go to the playoffs, not individuals. Many people (although not me) think Michael Jordan is the best ever. He didn't do anything until he had a good team. Was he bad until his team was good? No he wasn't and if you think so your an idiot. Lebron has been the best basketball player for many years, the cavs weren't the best team, does that make him bad? No, that's stupid. Kevin Love is the best PF in the game, you trade anything other then Kylie to get him. Even if we did, and i doubt he can be had, you will however need a TEAM capable of winning. The cavs FO certainly know this, and I hope they have some kind of plan going to attempt to be competitive soon. Grant's making inquiries as he should, so I have confidence he can make something happen, or at let knows something should happen soon.

I don't disagree, but I just think it's kinda funny that you say "teams win championships" but then go on to suggest that you basically trade whatever it takes (excluding Kyrie, obv) to get a single player.

If you think Andy, Thompson, and a pick is to much for Kevin Love I don't know where to begin.

Right. Especially when that pick is in a weaker draft.

The problem is you'd then have to find a third team that wants Varejao and can send quality prospects/picks to Minnesota. Unfortunately OKC is probably the only team with assets that make it worth it for the Wolves.

 

[Ruggeder]

I never said the way they handled it was mature - I said they were correct to leave and the decision to do so was not immature whatsoever. And no, the Cavs front office really didn't. They offered him no future here - fact. It's hard to appeal to a guy who has yet to win a title when you have truly no young talent on the team and will instead rely on "LeBron featuring the over-the-hill-vets" team composition like they had been doing.

There's nothing wrong with taking maturity into account. But that doesn't mean Grant should follow everyones' beliefs claiming so and so has this many red flags without deciding for himself. Drummond was blasted many times - especially here - for supposedly being lazy and not caring about winning. And now, everyone who blasted him looks dumb. If Grant wasn't able to decide for himself and instead followed what everyone else said.....well, that's why he'll end up being one of the many who mistakenly passed on Drummond. You might say his maturity was supposedly an additional risk, and thus far Drummond has done nothing but prove you wrong.

Also, talent is far and away the most important factor. I don't care about Thompson's work ethic if he isn't capable of being a starting PF on a legitimate title contender. Thus far, he hasn't proven he's even anywhere in the ballpark. I'll happily take Drummond and even Barnes over him, despite their supposedly lower "professionalism." I guess we don't need the most talented guys tho, we can just let them win with their grit and determination!

I don't disagree, but I just think it's kinda funny that you say "teams win championships" but then go on to suggest that you basically trade whatever it takes (excluding Kyrie, obv) to get a single player.

Right. Especially when that pick is in a weaker draft.

The problem is you'd then have to find a third team that wants Varejao and can send quality prospects/picks to Minnesota. Unfortunately OKC is probably the only team with assets that make it worth it for the Wolves.

I say it because teams with exceptional players are better then teams with marginal talent, and two great players are a good foundation to build that team out with.

 

[Dr. Gymbo]

If Kahn trades Kevin Love this year, he's basically waving the white flag and asking to be fired. There's no way. Not yet.

 

[Mdog1]

I would easily make the trade for Aldridge, or Love. The only two things that I wouldn't include in the trade would be Kyrie (duh), and Dion. 2013 pick top 2 protected, Andy, Tristan, Heat/Lakers pick, and Sac pick for Love (less for Aldridge).

It would be amazing to pair an all star PG with an all star big man, and keep the cap space we have, plus a potential all star 2 guard.

 

[TyGuy]

I'm not sure why we wouldn't hesitate to throw in Dion. What has he done to make himself immune to trading for superior talent? In my opinion our 2013 pick is much more valuable than dion. I think there are two shooting guards that go top 10 who are more talented than dion in Shabazz and archie goodwin.

 

[wremy]

agreed....Andy and Waiters if that is who they wanted is something I'd do immediately...Love is arguably the best PF in the league

 

[mofire]

I'm not sure why we wouldn't hesitate to throw in Dion. What has he done to make himself immune to trading for superior talent? In my opinion our 2013 pick is much more valuable than dion. I think there are two shooting guards that go top 10 who are more talented than dion in Shabazz and archie goodwin.

I would also include the kid from Kansas. He is coming into his own and is a very good player.

 

[KB]

I would also include the kid from Kansas. He is coming into his own and is a very good player.

Ben Mclemore iirc

 

[EdMonix11]

agreed....Andy and Waiters if that is who they wanted is something I'd do immediately...Love is arguably the best PF in the league

Not sure why'd they want Andy when they're trading Love. The only reason they want Andy right now is to keep Love happy..... I think the Cavs need to get a high pick (Toronto), and throw in Thompson and Waiters to have a real shot at Love.....and yes, I'd still do that trade.