Dion Waiters Traded

[godfather]

Dion hasn't had the coach to properly help him adapt to Kyrie, that's why you don't just give up on him yet. Did anyone every really think Mike Brown would come in, and solve the Kyrie/Dion debacle?

I think you at least put it in the hands of an innovative coach like Blatt, before you write the two off. Now, if Dion is involved in a big trade that's totally different. Other than that, I think he should and will be back next season. It's one thing asking Dion to adjust, but its another asking him to adjust where it does no benefits for his game whatsoever.

You put two problems together with Mike Brown, you'll have a colossal meltdown within minutes.

There were always chemistry/fitting in issues with Dion and Kyrie, but it didn't verge on mutiny until Mike Brown showed up.

I still think the two can play together, but it definitely will take an innovative coach to make it happen. That's why its worth seeing what Blatt can do. If you get these two on the same page, they're going to be very scary. The upside with them is too good to write it off this fast.

 

[dawgpridetosu]

Zen, that's a good video breakdown and confirms what I saw. When we hired Blatt I went back and watched the Maccabi-Real Madrid Euro final, as well as the Russia-Brazil and Russia-Argentina 2012 Olympic games to get a feel for his offense.

What I saw was far from a Princeton offense. The only way to describe it is "hybrid tailored to personnel". While he had a couple traditional Princeton handoffs, most of the good looks came from off ball movement and was somewhat Spursian with a couple of his plays. Two types of plays that stuck out to me were his "screen the screener" double screen action that resulted in a few open 3's as well as a slipping double screen that results in a wing player isolation against a big.

Mostly, Blatt takes advantage of mismatches. When we go small, we'll have a ton of ball movement. When we go a little bigger, we'll work the ball around looking for good looks but also low post seal-offs that Varejao would beast in (if he's still around).

With all of that being said, Blatt still allows his creating ball handler to take advantage of their man if they can. That means Kyrie and Dion will still get to play to their strengths while playing within the offense.

 

[OptimusPrime]

There is no basketball reason to trade Waiters unless you are getting Kevin Love with a long term deal. As far as playing together, there is no reason they can't. All you have to do is run an offense. Just watch Parker and Ginobili play together. They give the ball up, it moves around, and if it gets back to one of them with an advantage they attack it. That's all we need here. But I can't remember the last time we ran an offense. Fuck, maybe Lenny Wilkins? We saw from Waiters the second half of the season that the ball didn't stick in his hands anymore, and when it came back to him he looked like a budding star. We have yet to see that from Kyrie, but if we do then he and Waiters are perfect complements because the defense won't be able to shade to one side of the floor without being exposed on the other.

 

[mcfly]

If you trade Dion, you are just going to be searching for another creator to replace him. When the Playoffs roll around, and defenses tighten up, having a second guy who can get to the rim at will is a huge asset.

 

[Rich]

If you trade Dion, you are just going to be searching for another creator to replace him. When the Playoffs roll around, and defenses tighten up, having a second guy who can get to the rim at will is a huge asset.

This seems to be the biggest argument for Dion I've seen. Need another creator in the playoffs.

Can we at least sniff the playoffs before worrying about what we need to succeed in the playoffs? We're so far away from the playoffs that we might need an entirely different group of guys to compete.

 

[CleFan22]

If you trade Dion, you are just going to be searching for another creator to replace him. When the Playoffs roll around, and defenses tighten up, having a second guy who can get to the rim at will is a huge asset.

So you know how Dion or anyone on this roster not named Varejao will perform in the playoffs?

 

[Jack Brickman]

This seems to be the biggest argument for Dion I've seen. Need another creator in the playoffs.

Can we at least sniff the playoffs before worrying about what we need to succeed in the playoffs? We're so far away from the playoffs that we might need an entirely different group of guys to compete.

Seriously? We missed the playoffs by five games and played .500 ball for most of the season after dealing Bynum. Further, half our core guys are twenty-two and under, so you're apparently assuming zero development from them in your argument as well.

 

[Zen]

So what if he's undersized? He doesn't get backed down in the post and he gets in people's faces when they're shooting. He plays good defense for the position and his size is pretty darn irrelevant on that end of the floor.

Don't drag me through the coals. I'm simply repeating what the guy that runs our team has said MULTIPLE times. David Griffin seems to think size and length are the opposite of irrelevant.

Again, I like a lot of things about Dion. I still don't think he will be here in 1 years time though, some of you get way too defensive. As dion said "it's a business man"

 

[Garland1]

Griffin also said during Wiggins' press conference that he fits well with our ball dominant guards. He didn't say that he fits well with Kyrie, he said guards plural. He also said that Wiggins will reach greatness as a big 2, not that he is a big 2 now. I don't think he has the refined skills yet to be a two guard, although in the future he could and that's will when he will be great. This is how I took the press conference.

 

[mcfly]

This seems to be the biggest argument for Dion I've seen. Need another creator in the playoffs.

Can we at least sniff the playoffs before worrying about what we need to succeed in the playoffs? We're so far away from the playoffs that we might need an entirely different group of guys to compete.

Factor in the development of our young players, offseason acquisitions, a new coaching staff, and the Playoffs are not some mirage off in the distance.

 

[mcfly]

So you know how Dion or anyone on this roster not named Varejao will perform in the playoffs?

I suppose the safe assumption is that Dion will forget how to drive to the lane and will suddenly start falling over his own feet in the Playoffs?

 

[SteelSmack]

Don't drag me through the coals. I'm simply repeating what the guy that runs our team has said MULTIPLE times. David Griffin seems to think size and length are the opposite of irrelevant.

Again, I like a lot of things about Dion. I still don't think he will be here in 1 years time though, some of you get way too defensive. As dion said "it's a business man"

If I was defensive about Dion, I'd be in the Kyrie thread whining about how he's going to be gone in a year.

 

[Cavatt]

I don't even understand what this has to do with anything. Are you saying you're the sole good talent evaluator on the board? If not...well then I haven't a clue.



Do you remember what you said? About how everyone harps on Dion about his finishing even though it improved. Didn't improve. I can't help it that you don't like stats that directly contradict statements you make but instead of getting pissy I'd suggest just not making the statements in the first place.



Set up those strawmen. I didn't give you a random stat that has no relevance. I gave you THE stat that goes against any notion whatsoever that Dion improved around the rim. It's not my fault he's right at the bottom of the run in the league at finishing at the rim for his position.


.

You missed the point of my stats. They were straw men on purpose, but it's cool. Take my post as literally as you want. I know abstract thinking is something you react strongly to.

I don't think I am a good talent evaluator either. I just think Dion is already right, there comparable to a lot of star wing players at his age, and I know he works hard. Do you think he is a bust or what?

Tornicade showed how he can help the team score even if he is not finishing. We saw him begin to finish with his left, which was basically non-existent when he got into the league. He even got that pseudo game winner against Orlando finishing left. So he is working on it.

You are evaluating a 2nd year player on 2 data points. Anyone who does any actual analysis of anything would look at months and weeks to see how it changed over the course of the season. Dion was not the player in Oct that he was in Apr. You know this because you watched the games, and you are ignoring it.

Also cool you again quoted a lot, but didn't address his not getting foul calls. Gouri addressed it above.

This is an article that fear the sword did on this issue. I have to agree with everything Sam Vecenie says here. These issues are fixable. Keep the ball at your chest, and absorb the contact. Get the call.

http://www.fearthesword.com/2013/11...-10-things-weve-learned-about-the-cavs-so-far

there is second article about him improvingn over the course of the season I know how you dismiss anything that is "small sample size", but ignoring the differences at the beginning of the year and end is short-sighted IMO because he developed during the year.


60% in the paint. Only about average, but that is what I am trying to tell you here. With a player so young, you don't look at whole year averages, you look at trends in improvement.

here's that post, it's about Dion and Zeller improving.

http://www.fearthesword.com/2014/3/...rs-tyler-zeller-improvements-2012-draft-picks

 

[TwoPistols]

I see no reason why Waiters still couldn't push 30 minutes a game between PG and SG, even with the addition of Ariza. Ariza is going to strictly play the 3. Wiggins will split minutes between the 2/3.

What do you want to trade Waiters for? There is absolutely no point in dealing him unless it's for a bona fide all-star. You don't just throw away a talent like Dion because he "doesn't fit." You give Blatt and chance to figure out the backcourt dynamic, along with Lue who the Cavs were obviously impressed with for his vision of the backcourt. Worst case scenario, you put Dion as the 6th man and have no worries about the 2nd unit.

If you can rob someone at the deadline involving Dion, then you might consider it, but talk of trading him for anything right now outside of Love is asinine. He's not "good as gone" simply because of one Griffin statement that he wants to get longer and more athletic.

 

[Rich]

Seriously? We missed the playoffs by five games and played .500 ball for most of the season after dealing Bynum. Further, half our core guys are twenty-two and under, so you're apparently assuming zero development from them in your argument as well.

We won 33 games. Party time! Happy days are here again!