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French Terror Attack

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Edit your post so that I can read it.

Then think about the asinine argument you are making......

Mocking a religion is a form of bigotry. We often use the term racism to describe antisemitism, or anti-Jewish sentiment.

Anti-Islamic sentiment is considered "racist," just as anti-semitism is considered "racist." Those aren't my words, those are words from 7 international well-respected publications particularly Der Spiegel and the New York Times.

Your argument is intellectually dishonest because you're failing to understand that point.
 
From AFP News:

German Newspaper that Carried Charlie Hedbo Cartoons Firebombed

"Berlin (AFP) - A German tabloid that paid tribute to those killed at Charlie Hebdo by reprinting cartoons from the French satirical paper mocking the Prophet Mohammed was firebombed Sunday, police said.

With security services on high alert after a jihadist killing spree in Paris, police in the northern German port city of Hamburg said no one was at the headquarters of the regional daily Hamburger Morgenpost at the time of the attack, which caused only slight damage.

Hamburg police said it was "too soon" to tell whether there was a connection between the Charlie Hebdo tribute and the firebombing, which would be the first attack against the cartoons since Wednesday's massacre of 12 people at the French weekly.

"Rocks and then a burning object were thrown through the window," a police spokesman told AFP.

"Two rooms on lower floors were damaged but the fire was put out quickly."

The Hamburger Morgenpost, known locally as the MOPO, had splashed the Charlie Hebdo cartoons on its front page after the massacre at the Paris publication with the headline "This much freedom must be possible!".

Police said the attack had occurred at about 0120 GMT and that two men, aged 35 and 39, seen acting suspiciously near the scene were detained and are being questioned.

The newspaper, which has a circulation of around 91,000, offered regular updates on the firebombing on its website.

"Thick smoke is still hanging in the air, the police are looking for clues," it said in its initial story, under the headline "Arson attack on the MOPO - Due to the 'Charlie Hebdo' cartoons?".

Later Sunday it had removed any reference to Charlie Hebdo but quoted the regional representative body for the media as calling the attack a "cowardly and insidious act of terror against press freedom".

Editor-in-chief Frank Niggemeier said in a statement said his team was "shocked that something like this could happen in a cosmopolitan and liberal city like Hamburg"."

http://news.yahoo.com/arson-attack-german-paper-ran-charlie-hebdo-cartoons-065348454.html
 
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Wow - On a positive note - no deaths in the German attack.
 
Reactions in Arab papers:

http://mic.com/articles/108076/here-s-how-arab-papers-reacted-to-the-charlie-hebdo-massacre

terror_zpseffd8319.jpg
 
This isn't remotely on topic but I'm just really curious. Of all the awesome Game of Thrones characters, why take Stannis as your handle?

He wouldn't even make my top 15, maybe not even 20.

I like him because he believes in duty and cares about his Kingdom. He is a great military leader and believes in the Rule of Law. He is the only legitimate heir to the Iron Throne.

He isn't flashy, or even interesting, but it seems to be me and maybe Tyrion are the only ones who would rule Westeros well.

Book Stannis is a but more lively and possesses a cutting wit.
 
Mocking a religion is a form of bigotry.

Sorry, I'm still not buying that, for starters because it ignores entirely context or justification. Is mocking the Westboro Baptist Church or the Hale-Bopp comet guys "bigotry"? Sometimes mocking is deserved, and no belief system, religious or otherwise, should be considered immune to mocking, satire, or any other form of criticism.

By the way, you did not answer a question I posed earlier. Do you think it should be illegal to mock religions, or in particular, to print disparaging cartons of Muhammed?

We often use the term racism to describe antisemitism, or anti-Jewish sentiment.

You've switched terms now from "bigotry" to the more specific "racism", and for obvious reasons decided to use Jews as the example. I say "obvious" because you know perfectly well that being a "Jew" can have both a racial/ethnic and a separate religious meaning. That is a distinction that is not applicable to Christianity, or to Islam. Heck, it's inherent in the terms you yourself used. "Semitic" is an ethnic/racial classification. "Muslim" is not.

I know quite a few people who consider themselves Jewish ethnically/culturally because of their birth into that ethnic group, but also consider themselves atheists. In contrast, being a purely secular Christian or Muslim, who does not believe in God at all, is nonsensical. And obviously, if you don't believe in God, Muhammed, and the Koran, you're not be offended at a cartoon depicting Muhammed. You're creating a false equivalency between being a "Muslim" and being a "Jew" when you ignore the specific secular/ethnic sense of being "a Jew".

There is plenty of disparagement/mocking directed at Christians (particularly fundamentalist Christians). Is that "racist" too?

Anti-Islamic sentiment is considered "racist," just as anti-semitism is considered "racist." Those aren't my words, those are words from 7 international well-respected publications particularly Der Spiegel and the New York Times.

It's funny how you'll flip from disparaging any media source (including the NYT) when it doesn't reflect your views, to citing it as conclusive authority when it does. That's a particularly interesting switcheroo when the issue isn't fact, but pure opinion. And wholly apart from you not providing the context in which those opinions were expressed (and it is certainly possible for a particular criticism of a religion to include an express racial element), the personal opinions of editorialists at Der Speigel or the NYT hold no more presumption of validity than the personal opinions of anyone on this Board.

In any case, I'd agree that anti-Arab sentiment is racist. Criticizing the religious doctrine/practice of Islam in general, and more specifically the doctrine/practice advanced by radical elements in particular, is not.

Your argument is intellectually dishonest because you're failing to understand that point.

No, I understand that point. I simply reject it on the grounds that it is not bigotry to attack a particular belief system. And actually, nothing makes this distinction more clear than to look at your attempt to analogize criticisms of some aspects of Islam to anti-Semitic (in the Jewish context) sentiment.

Anti-Semites, whether they be Nazis or Middle East radicals who claim that Jews drink the blood of Palestinian babies, generally aren't attacking/criticizing the religious beliefs of Jews. They don't attack the religion of Judaism. Heck, both Christian anti-semites and Muslim middle east radicals share a belief in the same religious books as do the Jews. It's not their religion-based belief in keeping kosher, or their religious-based belief that the name of God should not be spoken (which belief they do not attempt to impose on non-Jews, I might add by way of contrast) that is the focus for anti-Semitic ire. Anti-Semitism focuses on the alleged secular misdeeds of ethnic Jews -- greed, accumulating wealth, having too much power, taking lands, etc.. It is "guilt" motivated primarily by blood and ethnicity, not by which books of the Bible you happen to prefer.
 
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And in other news, apparently we didn't send anyone important to the Paris unity march, whose attendees included not only the heads (of either state or government) of most of our European allies, but included both Netanyahu and Abbas. Not even the AG, who actually happened to be in Paris at the time.

Kind of weird. The Press Secretary admits it was a goof-up, but you gotta wonder how anyone could be that tone-deaf.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/12/white-house-admits-we-screwed-not-sending-higher-r/

Also, gotta say that Josh Earnest really can't carry Jay Carney's jock. As much as I disagree with this Administration, I think Carney did his boss about as well as could be done in that role. Earnest always seems like he's about to cry or something.
 
It's actually admirable that the US wasn't heavily represented at that joke of a rally. All of the leaders there have oppressed freedom of speech in one way or another, some jailing and/or killing journalists.
 
It's actually admirable that the US wasn't heavily represented at that joke of a rally.

Seems that even the Administration itself doesn't agree with you.

All of the leaders there have oppressed freedom of speech in one way or another, some jailing and/or killing journalists.

So you see no principled difference between whatever incidental speech restrictions may exist in Britain, Germany, France, Poland, Denmark, Spain, etc.., and murdering twelve cartoonists because you don't like their cartoons? Really?

Regardless of the individual imperfections of the nations that were represented, and regardless of the generally odious nature of Charlie Hebdo itself, the principle for which they were marching was one a lot of people deem to be very important.

Evidently, you don't.
 
I just want to be clear about something. I generally don't like the kind of stuff Charlie Hebdo did. It was typically Marxist piss-in-everyone's Corn Flakes, often just for pure shock value. The stuff I've seen is quite often juvenile and offensive to no real purpose. Being offensive for it's own sake, just because they can. They apparently had one cartoon showing the Holy Trinity performing anal sex on each other in a circle. Ha-ha.

However, that does not mean that everything they did lacked actual purpose. If their goal in publishing a cartoon of Muhammed was to criticize/expose a segment of Islam that believes the rest of the world must abide by Islam's definitions of blasphemy, that is a legitimate contribution to public debate. And so regardless of the merits of the other stuff they did, the right/principle that was at stake with these particular cartoons is something worthy of defense.

At least in my opinion.
 
Seems that even the Administration itself doesn't agree with you.



So you see no principled difference between whatever incidental speech restrictions may exist in Britain, Germany, France, Poland, Denmark, Spain, etc.., and murdering twelve cartoonists because you don't like their cartoons? Really?

Regardless of the individual imperfections of the nations that were represented, and regardless of the generally odious nature of Charlie Hebdo itself, the principle for which they were marching was one a lot of people deem to be very important.

Evidently, you don't.

Wait, so you think this was some genuine solidarity rally meant to stand behind the cartoonists and free speech? Ha, it was just a contrived press maker. Netanyahu (killed 17 journalists in Gaza) used it to put his face on the issue and coax French Jews to Israel. Abbas (jailed a man for criticizing him on FB) of course had to show up and play the the yin to Netanyahu's yang.

The rest have done the same or worse. Saudi Arabia even had the gall to show up! What is the point of showing solidarity in France when you do the exact opposite in your home country? Essentially makes a mockery of free speech. I even read that Charlie Hebdo had wished they thought of making caricatures of the hypocrites for the rally.
 
Wait, so you think this was some genuine solidarity rally meant to stand behind the cartoonists and free speech?

Do I think our European allies attended to show support/solidarity for the principles of free speech? Absolutely.

The rest have done the same or worse. Saudi Arabia even had the gall to show up! What is the point of showing solidarity in France when you do the exact opposite in your home country? Essentially makes a mockery of free speech. I even read that Charlie Hebdo had wished they thought of making caricatures of the hypocrites for the rally.

Okay, so Denmark, Germany, France, England, Poland, and our other NATO allies are all worse in terms of free speech protections than are Israel, the Palestinian Authority, and Saudi Arabia?? Because those are the European allies beside whom we failed to stand.

What the hell are you smoking?

You know, you can find a lot of nasty shit out about some of the people involved in the civil rights movement as well. That doesn't invalidate the merits of the times they did stand up for the right thing.

As for Charlie Hebdo...sure, of course they hated it. As I said, they're the typical fringe Marxists who basically hate everyone.
 

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