Indians Need a Power Hitter for 2016

[Huber.]

So why then do teams in the MLB that spend $125M+ in salaries each year seem to be playoff contenders over the time they spend that level of money.

It's all about the financing of a franchise these days and the return on investment. And for those of you who deny that and believe it's just a "game" like the good old days, that's simply wrong. It's a business, in both the MLB and NBA. Gilbert's no dummy.

If it was that easy everyone would do it in a no salary cap league. They would just go out and spend 200 million and magically make the playoffs every year. MLB owners are no dummies.

 

[JFT]

The Dolans are too cheap to buy a merry-go-round.

You think people come out to see the Cavs because of Dan Gilbert's financial commitment?

Because I think they come out to see LeBron James. I'm sorry, but I don't really see what Dan Gilbert did to bring him in other than apologize for fucking it up the first time.

I think the fans come out to see a winning team because the Cavs owner and management brought in several players that allow them to win a championship.

As we all watched last year, and previous Cavs team with LBJ, one player doesn't do it. And it is all financed by an owner who understands ROI this time around.

Once again, it's a business, not the playground, just like in the MLB.

 

[JFT]

If it was that easy everyone would do it in a no salary cap league. They would just go out and spend 200 million and magically make the playoffs every year. MLB owners are no dummies.

The New York York Yankees make the playoffs nearly every year spending that amount of money, as do other teams. It's all about ROI. What's your point?

 

[AZ_]

I think the fans come out to see a winning team because the Cavs owner and management brought in several players that allow them to win a championship.

As we all watched last year, and previous Cavs team with LBJ, one player doesn't do it. And it is all financed by an owner who understands ROI this time around.

Once again, it's a business, not the playground, just like in the MLB.

Previous Cavs teams with LBJ had zero issues with ROI the first time around.

For your argument about ROI to mean something, you're going to have to realize that the ROI for the Indians isn't nearly so lucrative.

Spend money to make money works when you have LeBron James, not when you have Corey Kluber and one of the best young staffs in the game.

You're smart enough to understand the difference, so I'm done here.

The New York York Yankees make the playoffs nearly every year spending that amount of money, as do other teams. It's all about ROI. What's your point?

You understand why the Yankees have the ability to spend that much money, right?

 

[MoFlo]

The Yankees have made the playoffs exactly the same number of times the Indians have over the past three seasons, despite their payroll being 2.5 x that of the Indians..

 

[Seiklis]

The Yankees have made the playoffs exactly the same number of times the Indians have over the past three seasons, despite their payroll being 2.5 x that of the Indians..

Free Agency has really collapsed in reliability in the post steroid era. Guys just can't be relied on past 33 anymore

 

[Huber.]

Free Agency has really collapsed in reliability in the post steroid era. Guys just can't be relied on past 33 anymore

Steroids needs to be heavily enforced in baseball. Players should be banned if they don't test positive.

 

[Nom]

The New York York Yankees make the playoffs nearly every year spending that amount of money, as do other teams. It's all about ROI. What's your point?

The main driver of teams' payroll are their cable contracts. The Yankees are able to pay that sort of payroll because they live in the largest media market in the world and make north of $300 million per year just in TV rights (according to Forbes tho I never really trusted their MLB numbers). The Indians make like $40 million.

So that means no matter what the Indians offer a free agent, the Yankees can offer more and it not impact their bottom line.

 

[Derek]

The Indians, in the Cleveland market, are not going to be able to spend money like a lot of teams regardless of who owns the team. Dan Gilbert would not spend anymore than the Dolans do because it's simply not the right call in the MLB landscape.

Luckily, you don't have to spend like madmen to compete in the MLB. You have to be a little more creative in how you spend your money, and have a good scouting/player development system in place.

Our spending patterns are not at all different from the Pirates and Royals, both of whom have been fantastic over the last few years. And although the Mets are typically bigger spenders, their payroll this year is not much more than our's.

The key to sustained success in Cleveland is scouting and player development. It was garbage for a while, but we are starting to see the results of a revamped scouting department pay off. The Dolans have shown a willingness to extend players through their arbitration years while gaining a few extra years of team control. We are locking players into Cleveland for their primes this way, and it has allowed us to keep a young core intact.

We have one of the best 1-2-3's in baseball under team control through 2020 on decent contract because the Dolans were willing to dish out a few extra guaranteed bucks in the short-term to keep them here longer. Would you feel better about the Dolans if they were paying Kluber $20 million instead of less than $10 million (on average)?

 

[AZ_]

The main driver of teams' payroll are their cable contracts. The Yankees are able to pay that sort of payroll because they live in the largest media market in the world and make north of $300 million per year just in TV rights (according to Forbes tho I never really trusted their MLB numbers). The Indians make like $40 million.

So that means no matter what the Indians offer a free agent, the Yankees can offer more and it not impact their bottom line.

R.O.I.

 

[JFT]

The main driver of teams' payroll are their cable contracts. The Yankees are able to pay that sort of payroll because they live in the largest media market in the world and make north of $300 million per year just in TV rights (according to Forbes tho I never really trusted their MLB numbers). The Indians make like $40 million.

So that means no matter what the Indians offer a free agent, the Yankees can offer more and it not impact their bottom line.

Yes, you can do it the way the Yankees and Dodgers do, but it is not necessarily the case for small market teams:

Pittsburgh cable contract is $18M / yr. 98 wins. Playoffs. Payroll $88M.

Kansas City cable contract is $20M / yr. 95 wins. Trip to WS. Payroll $113M.

St. Louis cable contract $25M / yr. 100 wins. NL Central Champs. Payroll $120M.

Toronto cable contract $36M / yr. 93 wins. AL East Champs. Payroll $122M.

Cleveland cable contract $40M / yr. 81 wins. No playoffs. Payroll $86M.

Clearly these other small market teams, are getting a great ROI with small cable contracts. Why can't the Indians do so as well?

It doesn't seem to be the cable contract size or payroll size, as these are relatively all about the same, which leaves the management team and owners as the culprits? Poor drafting, poor trades, poor signings, etc. etc. etc?

So to try to get this thread back on track, that leaves it up to management and the owners to attract a power hitter or two to Cleveland with the player assets and finances they have available. Who should that be and what do the Indians give up for the player(s)?

Or do they just sit on their hands and hope that the minor leaguers coming up through the farm system will provide the power needed in the next 2-4 years?

Edit: Updates for latest cable contract deals included.

 

[AZ_]

Yes, you can do it the way the Yankees and Dodgers do, but it is not necessarily the case for small market teams:

Pittsburgh cable contract is $18M / yr. 98 wins. Playoffs. Payroll $88M.

Kansas City cable contract is $20M / yr. 95 wins. Trip to WS. Payroll $113M.

St. Louis cable contract $25M / yr. 100 wins. NL Central Champs. Payroll $120M.

Toronto cable contract $36M / yr. 93 wins. AL East Champs. Payroll $122M.

Cleveland cable contract $40M / yr. 81 wins. No playoffs. Payroll $86M.

Clearly these other small market teams, are getting a great ROI with small cable contracts. Why can't the Indians do so as well?

It doesn't seem to be the cable contract size or payroll size, as these are relatively all about the same, which leaves the management team and owners as the culprits? Poor drafting, poor trades, poor signings, etc. etc. etc?

So to try to get this thread back on track, that leaves it up to management and the owners to attract a power hitter or two to Cleveland with the player assets and finances they have available. Who should that be and what do the Indians give up for the player(s)?

Or do they just sit on their hands and hope that the minor leaguers coming up through the farm system will provide the power needed in the next 2-4 years?

Edit: Updates for latest cable contract deals included.

The Indians are 4th in the AL in wins since 2013.

Their payroll is what it is largely because they've been built on young talent, thinking you need to spend in free agency to "get over the hump" often leads teams (like the Indians did with Swisher) to shell out contracts and divert from their plan.

The Pirates actually DID sit on their hands and let their young talent develop. The Royals DID let their young talent develop, and have been hindered by most of their past free agent acquisitions up until finally hitting one in Kendrys Morales (for a bargain price, mind you).

I'd like to continue following that model.

 

[MoFlo]

It's like people ignore that the royals and pirates were BRUTAL before this recent run they've been on, and I'm talking worse than late Eric Wedge into Manny Acta bad.

Kansas City, before 2013, last had a winning season in 2003, which was their first since 1993.

Dayton Moore took over that team in May 2006, and up until 2013, had never won more than 75 games and didn't finish higher than 4th until 2012. But the Royals stuck to their plan..

Pittsburgh, before 2013, hadn't even had a winning season since 1992.

Neal Huntington took over that team in September 2007, then had seasons of 67, 62, & 57 wins before breaking the 70 win total. He didn't finish higher than 4tg until 2013.

Yet Pittsburgh stuck with him & the plan until it worked.

Here, people want everyone fired & everything changed despite three straight winning seasons..

 

[JFT]

So we have to wait then on Bradley, Frazier, Zimmer and our other prospects to come up through the farm system to somehow fill in the power hitter void?

Won't that be too late to hang onto our current core hitters and pitchers, or force us to pay up at the end of their current contracts?

More suffering, pain, despair for me for another 50+ years

Oh well, at least we'll have a Cavs Championship to look forward too....and starting tonight!

 

[MoFlo]

So we have to wait then on Bradley, Frazier, Zimmer and our other prospects to come up through the farm system to somehow fill in the power hitter void?

Won't that be too late to hang onto our current core hitters and pitchers, or force us to pay up at the end of their current contracts?

More suffering, pain, despair for me for another 50+ years

Oh well, at least we'll have a Cavs Championship to look forward too....and starting tonight!

Where has anyone said that we're not allowed to try and fill any voids we have?