• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

State of the Union

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
Well, as cynical as it may be, what he says to get elected isn't as important as what he does once he's there. Kind of like Reagan with the religious right.

I don't agree with Paul on some foreign policy issues, but I really like him on other major issues, and he's not a nut like his father. He may be the GOP candidate who has the best chance of appealing to younger voters, and breaking that aspect of the Democratic coalition. He'd be a good contrast with Hilary.

It's funny.. I actually think his father is a much more honest politician.

I'd actually vote for Ron Paul; but not Rand Paul.

But this is all for naught. No Republican will win a national election in 2016. Statistically, there is a snowball's chance in hell of that happening.
 
It's funny.. I actually think his father is a much more honest politician.

I'd actually vote for Ron Paul; but not Rand Paul.

But this is all for naught. No Republican will win a national election in 2016. Statistically, there is a snowball's chance in hell of that happening.

Ron is a much more honest politician, but they have decided they have to play the game to get anywhere, which may be true. If Ron was running again I would be much more enthusiastic about supporting him, that's for sure.

As for a Republican winning in 2016, you are right that no typical Republican win. Bush can't win. Romney can't win. If Rand has to try to be too much like them to get the nomination, he probably won't win either. But it's their plan, so whatever. He would have to convince independents that he is different enough from them.

I would have preferred that after Ron's last run where he got his name out there a bit more that he and his organization start a third party that would spell the end of the Republican party. That fight would take a long time, but it could be won, where I never believed trying to play nice with the GOP bigwigs would lead to anything. But, a vote means nothing, so I'll throw him a bone unless he goes out there and starts leading the charge for starting a new war or something.
 
Whoever promises the most free stuff will win. This country is getting destroyed...it's work ethic gone. Obama's 8 years have only made the rich richer and destroyed the poor and middle class. Expenses are rising, real income is falling and the middle class is getting crushed by having to pay for bigger and bigger government. The participation rate is the lowest in 50 years. But hey, we have "FREE" healthcare. :dance:

Stop with the regulations, stop with the taxing of small businesses and get people off of unemployment and back to work...that is the ONLY way to prevent our economy from collapsing under the gross weight of the government. We have to stop raising the costs of doing business. The government needs to stop kicking businesses in the nuts, that is the only way to create a vibrant growing economy...the single best welfare there is.
 
Whoever promises the most free stuff will win. This country is getting destroyed...it's work ethic gone. Obama's 8 years have only made the rich richer and destroyed the poor and middle class. Expenses are rising, real income is falling and the middle class is getting crushed by having to pay for bigger and bigger government. The participation rate is the lowest in 50 years. But hey, we have "FREE" healthcare. :dance:

Stop with the regulations, stop with the taxing of small businesses and get people off of unemployment and back to work...that is the ONLY way to prevent our economy from collapsing under the gross weight of the government. We have to stop raising the costs of doing business. The government needs to stop kicking businesses in the nuts, that is the only way to create a vibrant growing economy...the single best welfare there is.

Is it the government's fault that the person who promises the most free stuff is the winner? The question isn't rhetorical. I used to think it was, but now I am leaning toward the other direction, where we are just in this wheel:
tytler.jpg


I am not sure I see spiritual faith coming out of bondage, but either way, we are likely in some sort of grand cycle that won't end well. I am not sure this makes Americans lazy or simple-minded, but rather, it might just make them human.
 
Just show Rubio awkwardly drinking copious amounts of water and I'm good.

The sad thing is that isn't even close to the worst response this decade.

Ted Cruz filmed his using an staffer's iPhone with two, unedited takes.
 
Whoever promises the most free stuff will win. This country is getting destroyed...it's work ethic gone.

We are a consumerist nation now, our economy is very different - and this isn't a Democratic or Republican issue, it's a supply-side + globalist ideological issue. But I don't think the policies you are advocating are in-line with Republican philosophies; that is to say, if you want to bolster U.S. domestic manufacturing.

Obama's 8 years have only made the rich richer and destroyed the poor and middle class.

This is not true.

90% of the net increase in wealth disparity over the last 15 years between the wealthiest 1% of income earners (capital gains included) and the other 99% of working Americans happened between 2002 and 2007. In essence, under Bush, the wealthy captured an historically unprecedented share of the net domestic GDP. In 2008, the nation incurred a correction, and incomes dropped for the top 1% but real assets plummeted for the middle class (foreclosures). The credit crunch greatly reduced financial opportunity for middle class families.

Point being, Bush's policies expanded the economy, but in an unstable way; the result was the 2008 financial collapse.

Obama's policies have been overly cautious and harmful to increasing the rate of growth to previous levels; however, one cannot say that the burden is being placed directly on the middle class.

A supply-side argument could be made that the middle class is suffering indirectly as a result of Obama's financial policies; but that's far more complex and very much debatable.

Expenses are rising,

Interest rates are very low and credit availability is expanding since 2008.
Energy prices, with respect to inflation, are historically low (near 20 year lows).
The two year average for mortgage rates, the primary asset and investment of the American middle class, are historically low.
The U.S. dollar is at a five year high lowering the cost of imported goods.

Expenses aren't rising, they're falling.

Now, is this good for business? Depends on your business. If your in the exporting business, as many American businesses are, then a strong dollar is not a good thing.

But for most Americans, a strong dollar, lower interest rates, cheap mortgages, low cost of petrol, and widening access to credit simply can't be described as "rising expenses."

Again, one can make a supply-side argument here... but that's another conversation.

real income is falling

It has been nearly flat for over 45 years. Once we re-engineered our economy to be less dependent on manufacturing and more on exporting we seem to have frozen out wage increases.

and the middle class is getting crushed by having to pay for bigger and bigger government.

No they're not... Middle class tax burden has decreased under Obama. This is a myth.

The participation rate is the lowest in 50 years.

And 2008 had a participation rate of 64 percent. Your measurement is biased from having an incumbent President who was widely believed to be the favorite against an unpopular challenger. The 2012 election was a forgone conclusion.

And no one should be concerned with midterm turnout rates, they are not a barometer of the political process. 2016 will likely be near 65% voter turnout just as 2008 and 2004.

But hey, we have "FREE" healthcare. :dance:

...

Stop with the regulations,

No.

stop with the taxing of small businesses

In what respect? I think you're repeating a claim often made by the GOP that small business owners are hurt by Obama's tax policy towards the upper class; but this is false.

Only ~2.0% of small business owners who have filed taxes since 2009 have been in the higher bracket; with the remaining 98% being in the reduced bracket.

So... most small businesses would have a lower tax burden. Now, the counter-argument here is that most small businesses fail, and thus that 2.0% is likely to have more employees and is more likely to expand. Agreed! But even with that, it's intellectually dishonest to represent Obama's policies as harmful to small businesses - they are not. They could be harmful to increasing the rate of job growth, but that's a completely different and more nuanced argument.

and get people off of unemployment and back to work...

This assumes that people on unemployment aren't actively looking for work now. I don't think I'd agree with that belief.

that is the ONLY way to prevent our economy from collapsing under the gross weight of the government.

This is more of an abstract argument made from a very specific ideological viewpoint. I understand what you're getting at, but with respect to these elections and the positions of both parties; neither is likely to reduce the net size of the government. The actual debate is about how to apportion tax burden and revenue, not the size and scope of the government itself - which is always growing.

I agree with you, I prefer smaller government as well (as small as possible). But ask a GOP Congressman (on record) if he'd support slashing the defense budget, or ask a Democratic Congressman (on record) if he'd support privatizing Social Security or Medicare (which I support) and see what they'd say.

Again, neither party actually wants smaller government.

We have to stop raising the costs of doing business. The government needs to stop kicking businesses in the nuts, that is the only way to create a vibrant growing economy...the single best welfare there is.

Regarding the bolded... welfare is the least of our problems.
 
This is not true.

90% of the net increase in wealth disparity over the last 15 years between the wealthiest 1% of income earners (capital gains included) and the other 99% of working Americans happened between 2002 and 2007. In essence, under Bush, the wealthy captured an historically unprecedented share of the net domestic GDP. In 2008, the nation incurred a correction, and incomes dropped for the top 1% but real assets plummeted for the middle class (foreclosures). The credit crunch greatly reduced financial opportunity for middle class families.

Point being, Bush's policies expanded the economy, but in an unstable way; the result was the 2008 financial collapse.

Obama's policies have been overly cautious and harmful to increasing the rate of growth to previous levels; however, one cannot say that the burden is being placed directly on the middle class.

The typical U.S. president has almost nothing to do with the wealth divide. Of course the wealth gap accelerated more from 2002-2007. In 2008 the whole thing crashed. If you measured the wealth gap when the Dow was 7,500 and MBS were worthless, that disparity had closed quite a bit. If the Fed hadn't printed $16 trillion to bailout the bankers that buy government bonds, that gap would have closed even more.

As it has always been, money and credit creation robs from the poor and middle class and enriches the wealthiest. And when the market corrects, prices fall, enriching the peasants, while the inflated value of the assets of the wealthy collapses.

Obama presided over the reinflating of those bubbles, so those elites recovered their money, growing the divide again, and it is picking up steam until the next bust. If the economy never crashed in 2008 the growth in that divide would have continued on the same trajectory as it did under Bush.

Interest rates are very low and credit availability is expanding since 2008.
Energy prices, with respect to inflation, are historically low (near 20 year lows).
The two year average for mortgage rates, the primary asset and investment of the American middle class, are historically low.
The U.S. dollar is at a five year high lowering the cost of imported goods.

Expenses aren't rising, they're falling.

Now, is this good for business? Depends on your business. If your in the exporting business, as many American businesses are, then a strong dollar is not a good thing.

But for most Americans, a strong dollar, lower interest rates, cheap mortgages, low cost of petrol, and widening access to credit simply can't be described as "rising expenses."

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.t07.htm

Below are the annual price increases for items that might impact your life on a daily basis:

Food at home – 3.7%
Food away from home – 3.0%
Meat – 12.7%
Fish and seafood – 5.6%
Eggs – 10.7%
Milk – 5.2%
Fruits & vegetables – 4.1%
Coffee – 4.2%
Butter – 22.5%
Natural gas – 5.8%
Footwear – 2.8%
Prescription drugs – 6.4%
Newspapers & magazines – 4.8%
College textbooks – 5.0%
Apartment rent – 3.4%
Owners equivalent rent – 2.6%
Hotels – 7.3%
Water & sewer – 5.6%
Medical care -2.4%
Hospital care – 4.9%
College tuition – 3.4%
Postage – 4.1%
Tax preparation – 6.1%

Expenses are not falling. Interest rates have been near nothing for 7 years now. Housing costs are only rising. Cheaper gas has just come on the last couple months because the Saudis, in tandem with the U.S. government, are flooding the market to tighten the screws on Russia and Iran. We are still paying for that gas with aid money. There is no free lunch.

It has been nearly flat for over 45 years. Once we re-engineered our economy to be less dependent on manufacturing and more on exporting we seem to have frozen out wage increases.

Or, in a shocking turn of events, right about the time they took any and all restraints off of the Federal Reserve by ending convertibility of dollars into gold.


Again, neither party actually wants smaller government.

I completely agree with you here.
 
Last edited:
The typical U.S. president has almost nothing to do with the wealth divide.

Yeah, that's not true. The President sets the agenda, controls the regulatory agencies, presents the annual budget, has veto power, and has tremendous leverage over the treasury and the Fed.

The President has more control over the economy than any other individual including the Fed chairman. Sure, Congress has more control; but that control is far more difficult to wield.

Of course the wealth gap accelerated more from 2002-2007. In 2008 the whole thing crashed. If you measured the wealth gap when the Dow was 7,500 and MBS were worthless, that disparity had closed quite a bit. If the Fed hadn't printed $16 trillion to bailout the bankers that buy government bonds, that gap would have closed even more.

I strongly disagree with this. The more likely scenario is that the economy would have collapsed further and the U.S. and perhaps even the entire world could have entered a second Great Depression. The global economy assuredly benefited from the infusion of capital, even if that meant printing it.

As it has always been, money and credit creation robs from the poor and middle class and enriches the wealthiest.

It's more complex than this. I just can't agree with your position as it doesn't seem to account for the fact that the increased availability of credit helps small businesses far more than a strong currency.

Seems like you're making a more idealogical argument against fiat currency; which again, is probably not the root of all evil.

And when the market corrects, prices fall, enriching the peasants, while the inflated value of the assets of the wealthy collapses.

Don't forget people lose their investments, pensions, retirement funds, homes, cars, jobs, and lives due to these corrections. My family (parents) lost a tremendous amount of invested wealth and frankly they've never recovered. It's just not numbers being adjusted, people lost a lot -- they were robbed, not enriched.

Obama presided over the reinflating of those bubbles, so those elites recovered their money, growing the divide again, and it is picking up steam until the next bust.

Well, I wouldn't call this market growth a bubble.. But I don't disagree that Obama did nothing to prosecute those responsible for the collapse.

If the economy never crashed in 2008 the growth in that divide would have continued on the same trajectory as it did under Bush.

Agreed, but I think everyone knew (who was in the know) that the system was unstable. There have been many reports and documentaries about just how much the Administration as well as the banking industry knew and most of them seem to paint the picture that they were criminally negligent.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.t07.htm
Below are the annual price increases for items that might impact your life on a daily basis:

Food at home – 3.7%
Food away from home – 3.0%
Meat – 12.7%
Fish and seafood – 5.6%
Eggs – 10.7%
Milk – 5.2%
Fruits & vegetables – 4.1%
Coffee – 4.2%
Butter – 22.5%
Natural gas – 5.8%
Footwear – 2.8%
Prescription drugs – 6.4%
Newspapers & magazines – 4.8%
College textbooks – 5.0%
Apartment rent – 3.4%
Owners equivalent rent – 2.6%
Hotels – 7.3%
Water & sewer – 5.6%
Medical care -2.4%
Hospital care – 4.9%
College tuition – 3.4%
Postage – 4.1%
Tax preparation – 6.1%

Expenses are not falling.

Seems like you cherry picked only the increases? The net change over the year was -0.4%. Net unadjusted CPI went down not up. When adjusted for inflation, prices went down much further when compared to historical averages. The year before, CPI went up only 0.8%,

Let's just look at two regions on the East coast.

23172.gif

23642.gif


Interest rates have been near nothing for 7 years now. Housing costs are only rising.

Both of these things are beneficial to the middle class. I don't get your point.

Increases in home value mean increases in available credit from the number one asset of middle class Americans, the equity in their homes. Low interests rates makes getting that asset much easier.

Cheaper gas has just come on the last couple months because the Saudis, in tandem with the U.S. government, are flooding the market to tighten the screws on Russia and Iran. We are still paying for that gas with aid money. There is no free lunch.

I agree with why you think we have lower energy prices; but not the statement that "we are still paying for it." The Saudis are making more money from the lower price by increasing their marketshare.

Or, in a shocking turn of events, right about the time they took any and all restraints off of the Federal Reserve by ending convertibility of dollars into gold.

That's definitely a possibility.

I completely agree with you here.

Yep.
 
Yeah, that's not true. The President sets the agenda, controls the regulatory agencies, presents the annual budget, has veto power, and has tremendous leverage over the treasury and the Fed.

The President has more control over the economy than any other individual including the Fed chairman. Sure, Congress has more control; but that control is far more difficult to wield.

There is no one on Earth with more control over the world economy than the Fed chairman. The president and Congress can do whatever they want, but if the Fed isn't either directly buying, or lending the money for bankers and other central banks to buy U.S. debt, then the federal government can do nothing. No investors in their right minds are going to snap up $1 trillion + of new U.S. debt each year with their own money when there is already $18 trillion of it out there.

Their control of interest rates influences every aspect of the economy. The government can pass any kind of tax plan or public works plan they want, if the Fed raised rates tomorrow to 5%, the Dow would drop 4,000 points in a day and probably 10,000 points in 2 weeks.

I strongly disagree with this. The more likely scenario is that the economy would have collapsed further and the U.S. and perhaps even the entire world could have entered a second Great Depression. The global economy assuredly benefited from the infusion of capital, even if that meant printing it.

There was a second Great Depression. And you're right in the short term it would have been worse than it was. But that wealth gap would have closed. They aren't mutually exclusive.

It's more complex than this. I just can't agree with your position as it doesn't seem to account for the fact that the increased availability of credit helps small businesses far more than a strong currency.

Seems like you're making a more idealogical argument against fiat currency; which again, is probably not the root of all evil.

It's very much debatable if availability of credit is more beneficial than stable money. The small business is dead in this country. More businesses die than are started up in this country, and that has been the case since 2008.

616sgtntbeas692w57hlvq.jpg


Now of course government red tape is a huge culprit in this, but it's not the only answer.

Don't forget people lose their investments, pensions, retirement funds, homes, cars, jobs, and lives due to these corrections. My family (parents) lost a tremendous amount of invested wealth and frankly they've never recovered. It's just not numbers being adjusted, people lost a lot -- they were robbed, not enriched.

This is true. But they didn't lose as much as a billionaire did, hence why the gap would have been reduced. It's a shame that people can't get a market interest rate in a CD thanks to the Federal Reserve. If they want their money to have any chance of outpacing inflation they have to gamble with it.


Well, I wouldn't call this market growth a bubble.. But I don't disagree that Obama did nothing to prosecute those responsible for the collapse.

I wouldn't call it anything but a bubble. There is no data to show anything about this recovery is real. 100% of it is driven by 0% money from the Fed.


Agreed, but I think everyone knew (who was in the know) that the system was unstable. There have been many reports and documentaries about just how much the Administration as well as the banking industry knew and most of them seem to paint the picture that they were criminally negligent.

What do you suppose is different now? Nothing. If the banks fail again, they will be bailed out again, and that's all they need to know.

Seems like you cherry picked only the increases? The net change over the year was -0.4%. Net unadjusted CPI went down not up. When adjusted for inflation, prices went down much further when compared to historical averages. The year before, CPI went up only 0.8%,

Let's just look at two regions on the East coast.

23172.gif

23642.gif

I pasted those from a Zerohedge article, but it shows that not all expenses are going down. And those are the government's own numbers, which you know are cooked. As for the aggregate CPI, there isn't a statistic in the world with less credibility to me.

I agree with why you think we have lower energy prices; but not the statement that "we are still paying for it." The Saudis are making more money from the lower price by increasing their marketshare.

We give them money anyway, you don't think we are slipping them a little more to play along? This isn't a business move or they would have done it all along.
 
I think both of their arguments suck.

Romney 2018.
 
If Paul got elected he would be killed before his inauguration.

Paul supporters (either Ron or Rand) spouting off this type of conspiracy stuff is one of the things that turns others off from supporting either. It makes you sound like ...nuts.

And that's too bad, because I'm leaning towards Rand Paul at this point. You guys are your own candidate's worst enemy.
 
And that's too bad, because I'm leaning towards Rand Paul at this point. You guys are your own candidate's worst enemy.

If this were true, then what some idiot said on a message board would have no bearing on that.
 

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-14: "Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:14: " Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey."
Top