The Andre Drummond Thread

[RealKingofCleve]

In short, are we incapable of measuring Grant's performance?

In Rich's view, pretty much. He's criticized me before for projecting out what I thought players would be. Rich thinks thats impossible to do. So if you're an NBA gm and Chris Grant comes to you with a deal offering Waiters and TT, I guess you're totally paralyzed if you're Rich because you can't project out players.

 

[Toph]

So if you're an NBA gm and Chris Grant comes to you with a deal offering Waiters and TT, I guess you're totally paralyzed if you're Rich because you can't project out players.

This makes no sense to me, what do you mean?

 

[RealKingofCleve]

This makes no sense to me, what do you mean?

Rich doesn't think you can look at a player and his performane and project out to what you think the player will be in 5 years.

 

[Spencer Hawes]

When did I ever say Dumars was a poor talent evaluator? I think he's done a fine job of drafting, although I think everyone would have to admit that the Darko pick was one of the worst draft picks of all time considering who was drafted after him. All I said was that building a championship team a decade ago doesn't buy him a free pass for life. Since then he's drafted well enough, but his team hasn't made the playoffs in six years, and the last time they were there they were swept out of the first round. He also made two of the worst free agency signings of all time, chronicled in at least two of my other posts above.

You also seem to be putting words in my mouth. I never even mentioned the Jennings signing. I think he got Jennings for a fair price, although I question the long-term fit of Jennings, a low-efficiency and poor shooting point guard, with the other guys on that roster, only one or two of whom can hit threes at a rate above league average. For all that you guys kill Grant for his roster construction, the Pistons don't seem to be a team that was constructed any better. Did you know that Rodney Stuckey is the only player on the Pistons shooting above 35% from three this year? That team is where floor spacing goes to die.

And much like Rich, it's fine to say that Grant whiffed on Drummond, or that you don't like his drafting. The problem is that you guys just keep saying it...and saying it...and saying it. Nothing has changed. Typing that you hate Grant on a message board isn't going to get him fired. It's just going to annoy all the people that are sick of reading the same three sentences over and over and over again. We get it. Grant should have drafted Drummond. He didn't, and he's still our GM, and there's not a damn thing anyone but Dan Gilbert can do about it. Life goes on.

At least guys like Rch and gouri actually bring some new and intelligent arguments in from time to time, but some of you just beat the same damn drum to the point of deafness. It's fine if you want to masturbate to Drummond box scores in the comfort of your own home, but you don't have to come on here and give us a play by play. We all get what you're saying and many of us even agree. We're just sick of reading it because we've all read it a thousand times already.

Look at the title of the thread for Christ's sake. I mean, if you don't like people discussing Andre Drummond and his stat line, then don't click on the thread, don't post in the thread telling people to stop masturbating to Drummond, don't ever hover your mouse over the thread. I find it hypocritical for people like you to bash people who likes Drummond as a player and likes watching him develop. A lot of times, this thread was completely dead until Drummond has a bad game and some hater revives the thread with some one-liner.

I'm a Cavs fan as well as an NBA fan. Don't act all high and mighty on your high horse criticizing people that like to cheer for players on other teams. Is there a rule that says if you're a Cavs fan, you can't be an NBA fan?

Dumars has a history of assembling a championship team. He has a history of drafting solid players and finding all-stars in the late first round and 2nd round. For all his fuckups, he was still able to draft two potential all-stars and maybe a dominant big one day. Chris Grant has none of that. The jury may still be out on him but it doesn't look good at this time and he should feel the heat. Dumars wasn't above criticism. He got heat for the Villanueva/Gordon signing but in the end his track record saved his job. CG has nothing to fall back upon. How long do we have to wait for everything to pan out before he feels the heat? So your point about CG shouldn't be criticized cause Dumars wasn't failed because Dumars was criticized and almost lost his job.

You mentioned that both our teams are just as bad. Fine, we'll see what happens at the end of the season. But word of advice, don't criticize people for posting Drummond stat lines in a Drummond thread. That's like telling everyone here are RCF to stop discussing Cavs related material and focus on Obamacare.

 

[Toph]

I don't think Jack is saying he has a problem with discussing Drummond and how he plays. That's not the annoying part. It's the fact that when discussing Drummond and Chris Grant, it seems like you fail to see the negative aspects of Drummond and the positives of Chris Grant. It's starting to sound like a broken record. Drummond can do no wrong and Grant can do nothing right. I understand wishing we had drafted Drummond because I do too. But it's done.

 

[RealKingofCleve]

I don't think Jack is saying he has a problem with discussing Drummond and how he plays. That's not the annoying part. It's the fact that when discussing Drummond and Chris Grant, it seems like you fail to see the negative aspects of Drummond and the positives of Chris Grant. It's starting to sound like a broken record. Drummond can do no wrong and Grant can do nothing right. I understand wishing we had drafted Drummond because I do too. But it's done.

It was a pretty damn big error. Trying to marginalize how big of a mistake this was does nothing.

 

[Cashius X]

It was a pretty damn big error. Trying to marginalize how big of a mistake this was does nothing.

Constantly reiterating how big a mistake Chris Grant made does nothing also.

 

[Toph]

It was a pretty damn big error. Trying to marginalize how big of a mistake this was does nothing.

Do you realize that Drummond was about as raw as a prospect can be coming out of college? A lot of teams were skeptical on how he would perform at the next level and if he had the drive to succeed. That's why he went 9th. You act like he was a can't miss prospect at the time of the draft. He wasn't. He developed into one and showed that he deserved to be drafted earlier, but it was far from obvious then. If we start holding every GM accountable for every prospect they misjudge in the draft then I guess there are 32 GMs on the hot seat. Because it happens to every team at some point or another. We may have missed out on a great player, but by no means did Grant make a bad pick. You've gotta move on man.

 

[SkaakS]

Posts referencing various people in this thread:

Dion Waiters:
Blue Kahuna: 44
Jack Brickman: 26
RealKingofCleve: 25
mAo_mAo: 20
Jon: 16
Randolphkeys: 15
Tornitroll: 15
RchfldCavRaised: 13
Birdy89: 12
Playoffs God: 9
Len: 7
Rich: 7
gourimoko: 6

Chris Grant:
Blue Kahuna: 20
Jack Brickman: 12
Birdy89: 11
Jon: 9
RealKingofCleve: 9
gourimoko: 8
Tornitroll: 8
Mdog1: 7
RchfldCavRaised: 7
Rich: 6
mAo_mAo: 5
Playoffs God: 5

Andre Drummond:
Blue Kahuna: 98
Birdy89: 45
RealKingofCleve: 41
Tornitroll: 32
Jon: 26
mAo_mAo: 21
Randolphkeys: 18
Jack Brickman: 14
Rich: 13
Len: 11
gourimoko: 10
oasis05: 10
RchfldCavRaised: 9
Futuredome: 7
Orange and BLue: 7
PATRICK EWING: 6
Triumph36: 6
theSTEREO.: 6
Playoffs God: 6
D-Wreck: 6
Banksy: 6
qaws23: 6
STAT: 6

From this, it looks like Grant and Dion have been the topic about 48% of the time for the pro-Drummond crowd, and 54% of the time for the anti-Drummond crowd.

Edit: Actually, it comes out to 44% for both the pro and anti groups based on the total average, not the average percentage.

 

[chrisrich91]

Posts referencing various people in this thread:

Dion Waiters:
Blue Kahuna: 44
Jack Brickman: 26
RealKingofCleve: 25
mAo_mAo: 20
Jon: 16
Randolphkeys: 15
Tornitroll: 15
RchfldCavRaised: 13
Birdy89: 12
Playoffs God: 9
Len: 7
Rich: 7
gourimoko: 6

Chris Grant:
Blue Kahuna: 20
Jack Brickman: 12
Birdy89: 11
Jon: 9
RealKingofCleve: 9
gourimoko: 8
Tornitroll: 8
Mdog1: 7
RchfldCavRaised: 7
Rich: 6
mAo_mAo: 5
Playoffs God: 5

Andre Drummond:
Blue Kahuna: 98
Birdy89: 45
RealKingofCleve: 41
Tornitroll: 32
Jon: 26
mAo_mAo: 21
Randolphkeys: 18
Jack Brickman: 14
Rich: 13
Len: 11
gourimoko: 10
oasis05: 10
RchfldCavRaised: 9
Futuredome: 7
Orange and BLue: 7
PATRICK EWING: 6
Triumph36: 6
theSTEREO.: 6
Playoffs God: 6
D-Wreck: 6
Banksy: 6
qaws23: 6
STAT: 6

From this, it looks like Grant and Dion have been the topic about 48% of the time for the pro-Drummond crowd, and 54% of the time for the anti-Drummond crowd.

Forum stats. Rchfld is going to have an aneurysm. :chuckles:

Speaking of, Rchfld's TP% (true posting percentage) has been on a steady upward trend recently. But his +/- is still lacking..

 

[Rich]

In Rich's view, pretty much. He's criticized me before for projecting out what I thought players would be. Rich thinks thats impossible to do. So if you're an NBA gm and Chris Grant comes to you with a deal offering Waiters and TT, I guess you're totally paralyzed if you're Rich because you can't project out players.

Spot on, as always.

 

[Toph]

From this, it looks like Grant and Dion have been the topic about 48% of the time for the pro-Drummond crowd, and 54% of the time for the anti-Drummond crowd.

Edit: Actually, it comes out to 44% for both the pro and anti groups based on the total average, not the average percentage.

The conclusion I drew from your post is that you just wasted a lot of time.

Also, I don't think there is an "anti-Drummond crowd". Its more of a Drummond Cult and then everyone else realizes he's becoming a great player and knows it sucks that we missed out on him but doesn't constantly bitch about it.

 

[Tornicade]

Which group was i in? Personally i would of broke down each poster by percentage. cause im sorta fancying percentages over hard numbers at the moment.

sort like the percentages of Drummond shots outside of the restricted area.

 

[Jack Brickman]

The conclusion I drew from your post is that you just wasted a lot of time.

Also, I don't think there is an "anti-Drummond crowd". Its more of a Drummond Cult and then everyone else realizes he's becoming a great player and knows it sucks that we missed out on him but doesn't constantly bitch about it.

You also have to consider that a lot of the Waiters and Grant talk from some of us came in the form of replies to people like Kahuna that brought them up in the first place. That kind of swings the percentages a bit.

 

[Toph]

You also have to consider that a lot of the Waiters and Grant talk from some of us came in the form of replies to people like Kahuna that brought them up in the first place. That kind of swings the percentages a bit.

Yeah exactly. It's not like all of those posts were off topic. The main argument in this thread is that we made a mistake by not drafting Andre Drummond. But instead, Chris Grant drafted Dion Waiters.

Craaaazy how it all comes together :chuckles: