Who Should Be the Franchise Four for the Cleveland Indians?

[Real Deal]

Joey Belle could make that case too but he was my just missed.

In a perfect world I wish Lofton-Vizquel-ManRam-Thome would of all stayed and finished their career with us. Come on, they would've eventually won one....

 

[Stark]

Somebody argue with me about Thome getting a statue again.

 

[Seiklis]

Cy Young easily should be on this list. He might only be the greatest pitcher ever, and pitched most of his career with the Tribe.

No he didn't and that's the problem. He pitched for the Cleveland spiders from 1890-1898 compiling 241 of his wins. Young returned in 1909 and won an additional 29 games over 2 1/2 years

The Cleveland Spiders disbanded in 1899 after the Robison brothers threw the city away for a "better opportunity" in St Louis, the same franchise that is now the Cardinals. They did this by buying St Louis at a bankruptcy auction and the consolidating all the Cleveland talent onto the St Louis team including 3 hall of famers in Cy Young, Jesse Burkett and Bobby Wallace. The Robisons ran and hid the 1899 season away in St Louis, the National league allowing them to play all home games after May in St Louis and away from an outraged Cleveland fanbase. The Cleveland Spiders finished with a still unmatched losing record of 20-134 and were disbanded after the season

The Cleveland AL franchise moved in from Grand Rapids in 1900 and set up shop as a A level (AAA equivalent) team. One year later, the AL was deemed a major league with the Cleveland Blues one of the eight founding teams. Cleveland became the Broncos in 1902, the Naps in 1903 and finally became the Indians in 1915 named after the 1914 "miracle" world champion Boston Braves.

The Indians don't recognize anything the Spiders did more than a few footnotes about a previous team and since it's a different and failed organization. Cy Young went in the Hall of Fame as a Cleveland Spider not an Indian while Jesse Burkett chose not to go in with any team label.

The question of who's the best pitcher in Cleveland baseball history is a damn hard choice between Feller and Young but if only the Indians stats are being used Young was nothing that notable. It's a shame Burkett didn't make it back to Cleveland before he retired, he's pretty much been a man without a team for over 100 years now

Might as well toss this in, one of the greatest photographs in Cleveland Baseball history taken before game 5 of the 1920 World Series
Lajoie - Speaker - Young

 

[The Oi]

Nap Lajoie looked like Johnny Manziel.

Was probably a better Quarterback though.

 

[kosis]

Thome even being an option is such a joke.

 

[Real Deal]

Thome even being an option is such a joke.

Man, what do you really think of LeBron?

 

[kosis]

Man, what do you really think of LeBron?

Why does that matter? It's not even a personal/jilted thing. I grew up watching the 90's team and he'd barely make my top 4 Indians of that era.

 

[Real Deal]

Why does that matter? It's not even a personal/jilted thing. I grew up watching the 90's team and he'd barely make my top 4 Indians of that era.

I'm curious whos your 4 then

 

[kosis]

Feller, Doby, Boudreau, and Vizquel. Picked Vizquel because I wanted someone to represent the more recent generation.

Felt like Vizquel and Lofton at the very least meant more to the 90's teams, especially when we got slugging from both Belle and Manny.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I'm curious whos your 4 then

There are a bunch of players who, to me, define those teams:

Nagy
Kenny
Omar
Belle
Manny
Thome
Sandy

If you want top 4, Kenny and Omar are my only two guarantees. Nagy had the longevity with us, while Albert, Manny and Thome all were sluggers who left. Thome undoubtedly was the worst player of those 3. Heck, Sandy was a better catcher than Thome was at third or first.

 

[godfather]

Thome does not belong on there. Anyone that really watched the Indians in the 90s, he was never the catalyst of those teams. He was really good, he put up great numbers, mostly, for being the one to stick around the longest.

I never thought he was anywhere near as good as Belle and Manny, though. He definitely doesn't belong. Belle and Manny were the sluggers of those 90s teams. Thome was clearly the third banana.

The thing is, maybe I'm bias, SOMEONE from those 90s teams definitely deserves it though. I don't give a shit if they didn't win a World Series. Those were some of he best teams we've ever seen, in any era of baseball.

They just got fucking unlucky (both times really), in '95, they went against maybe one of the top-5 all-time greatest starting pitching rotations in the Braves.

I am okay with Omar making it, because this is the greatest short stop, defensively, I've ever seen. He was fucking fantastic! So he definitely deserves some strong consideration, and was definitely the anchor of the defense. He was seen as one of the top faces on those teams. Not a bad hitter either.



Kenny Lofton should easily be on that list before Thome. Kenny Lofton should be in the HALL OF FAME!!!!


My mistake about Cy Young, but the Spiders no longer exist, so is he not going to make it for any of these teams? Boston maybe, I don't know.

Is it too late to become a Cleveland Spiders fan, instead of an Indians fan? They might have a better shot at the World Series.

My list: Feller, Doby, Speaker, and Omar

Speaker better make it, he was a rival/comparable to Ty fuckin' Cobb in his day. Cry shame and embarrassing if he's left off.

 

[godfather]

Nap, is a really, really, tough one to leave off. I think he personally was better than Doby. Obviously his numbers back it up, but I am going with Doby because of the cultural significant being a large factor, I think a guy like him should be one of the faces of this organization.

It's a tough list, not going to lie. He probably should be on it over Omar.

But like I said, I'm bias, and want at least one player from the 90s on it.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

You're biased--not "bias." Bias is a noun.

 

[Steve_424]

Thome even being an option is such a joke.

I don't think it's a joke that he's an option. You can definitely make an argument for him being in the top 15 in Indians franchise history. I don't like him, think he's a liar, and hate that he has a statue, but I can't deny he's top 15.

I do, however, think it's a joke that he was selected over Larry Doby and Lou Boudreau. Same goes for those two missing out in favor of Omar Vizquel (who is my favorite Indian of all-time).

 

[Steve_424]

There are a bunch of players who, to me, define those teams:

Nagy
Kenny
Omar
Belle
Manny
Thome
Sandy

If you want top 4, Kenny and Omar are my only two guarantees. Nagy had the longevity with us, while Albert, Manny and Thome all were sluggers who left. Thome undoubtedly was the worst player of those 3. Heck, Sandy was a better catcher than Thome was at third or first.

Charles Nagy is the Boobie Gibson of the 90's Indians. Average pitcher who was lucky enough to have some of the best offenses in team history behind him.

Sandy Alomar Jr. was an outstanding player but you can't say he was a better one than Jim Thome.

Manny won't be included because of the roids. I'm not sure Thome wasn't using either, but there's no proof against him and he's a media darling, so nobody will even suggest it. Manny also bolted for more money, just like Jim.

Belle was the best hitter on the 90's Indians, but his career numbers don't stack up. Injuries killed his career.

This really came down to how you looked at it. For me, I looked at career stats and impact on Cleveland Indians baseball (and baseball in general). I didn't feel the need to include a 90's player just because it was a fun era.