Xbox One or Playstation 4? What are you getting?

[Mdog1]

Can someone tell me what these numbers mean? I've been checking thus thread for months and all I've seen were these numbers. I've got a xbox one, should I be worried?

Do you mean the ones I was posting? If so, basically they are the console sales numbers in the US to date. I am not exactly on the money with 700,000 ps4s more than xb1, just didn't want to do the research to give an actual number.

As for being worried no. As long as games (as in cod, ass creed, battlefield, etc) continue to make a profit on xb1 there is no need to be worried.

It is relatively cheap to port games this gen due to the consoles going x86, so no real need to worry at all.

That said I remember the ps4 version of watchdogs sold around 50% of all versions of watchdogs in launch week, including xb1, ps3, 360, and pc (retail). Call of Duty will be the most telling game come November. Always an xbox franchise, but Ghosts sold more on ps4 than on xb1.

 

[gourimoko]

Can someone tell me what these numbers mean? I've been checking thus thread for months and all I've seen were these numbers. I've got a xbox one, should I be worried?

They're just tracking customer preferences and trends. No, you shouldn't be worried. Xbox One isn't going to get dumped by Microsoft unless something crazy happens. Although, Microsoft is seriously considering getting out of the console business altogether, so this could be their last console.

I don't think there would be any immediate ramifications if Microsoft sold off it's console business unless it couldn't find a buyer and just spun it off and that spin-off subsequently failed. Even then, the only effect would be a shortened lifespan on your console; but to be honest, these consoles don't have very long projected lifespans to begin with (think 4-5 years instead of 10). Why? Because they are both underpowered.

Steam Machines will likely hit the market and trounce both consoles as older and more seasoned gamers will prefer them as a way to transition into PC-gaming. I think that will signal the beginning of the end of "console" gaming. Honestly, I think we've got maybe another generation of console gaming left before home PCs, HTPC's, and mobile gaming is simply so commonplace as to have replaced the market for consoles entirely. Why buy an Xbox if your phone can render high-end graphics and your HTPC has a mid-range GPU already?

SteamOS would have happened sooner had Microsoft hadn't sabotaged OpenGL on it's platform. But now, we can see the writing on the wall and both hardware manufacturers (AMD/Nvidia/Intel), major platform makers (Sony, Apple, Nintendo, Canonical), and software development companies (read: all excluding Microsoft) want to use technologies like Mantle to get rid of the platform specific abstraction layer entirely.

Once this happens, that's it for Microsoft Windows Gaming and single console projects (not exclusives, but titles that are limited to a single console due to cost constraints).

If I had to guess, I'd say it's 50/50 this is Microsoft's last gaming console. The Kinect is largely a failure, but I don't think it's going anywhere with Oculus Rift coming to consoles. Either way, I think they'll probably move the Xbox into the HTPC market to compete with Apple there, just as Apple and Google will converge there as well with gaming from digital distribution only (and apps) rather than discs. It's actually a far more profitable business than console gaming. (Google/Apple make 30% on every app and it costs you nothing to distribute).

So yes and no, the numbers are somewhat meaningful. If Microsoft was far and away ahead of Sony right now, then I'd say they could probably justify staying in the console business.

 

[Mdog1]

Just to add on to Gour here, the 360 got nearly half of its console sales in the us, around 37 million of the 80ish million last I heard. It trounced ps3 in the us, and now ps4 is beating xb1 in the us, which leads many to believe that xb1 is in for a massive market contraction. Even if the xb1 and ps4 sell an equal amount in the us, that means ms losing a good chunk of its marketshare.

I believe the ps3+360 usa total was somewhere in the neighborhood of 37+27 or 64 million consoles (excluding the wii for arguments sake). If they split the 64 million, and the worldwide totals stay the same sony would be looking at a 5 million boost to 85 million, and ms looking at 75 million.

Not horrible by any stretch, but the uk was absolutely dominated by xbox last gen too, and this gen Sony is said to have been at double them at one point (although I believe titanfall helped), which could mean a much larger gap in the neighborhood of 20 million difference.

All that means is games like titanfall that ms pays for exclusivity, won't happen, or it will be far more expensive, because they have to pay to compensate for the larger install base.

Now onto the Steam machines, with the Steam OS you lose a few things that are (ti me at least) pcs biggest draw. You lose backwards compatability, and the ability to upgrade for some of them (Alienware at least). One of the biggest pc draws for gaming is being able to play games from 20 years ago that you never got to, but most of those won't run on Steam OS. Hell even a lot of newer games don't have support for it, and until they do it will never take off for gaming.

I believe that is unfortunate. I want a pc to play rpgs on at 120fps, but a steam machine will not he it I am afraid.

 

[gourimoko]

Now onto the Steam machines, with the Steam OS you lose a few things that are (ti me at least) pcs biggest draw. You lose backwards compatability,

SteamOS is an open platform. There will be plenty of folks porting emulators, Wine, and VMs to Steam once there is a reason to do so. I fully expect Steam Machines to have console emulation in year 1.

and the ability to upgrade for some of them (Alienware at least).

I wouldn't buy anything Alienware sells to begin with. But I think most Steam Machines are upgradable. They won't increase costs by soldering parts to the board.

One of the biggest pc draws for gaming is being able to play games from 20 years ago that you never got to,

Sounds like you don't do much PC gaming. I've never heard of anyone buying a PC to play 20 year old games. :chuckles:

but most of those won't run on Steam OS. Hell even a lot of newer games don't have support for it, and until they do it will never take off for gaming.

Actually most games will support SteamOS out of the box. In fact, any game that supports OS X supports Steam OS pretty much already. PS4 games that have PC ports are also just a configuration change away from Steam. As of now, any game that uses any of the major game engines is already compatible.

Only games that develop their own internal engines, and then do so without using an API abstraction layer (like SDL), and then further compound the problem by selecting DirectX (why?), are not SteamOS compatible

There are very few games actually that cannot be ported to Steam quite easily (those totally reliant on DirectX or making WinAPI system calls <- no game should do this btw). The only difference between Steam and Windows is the OS API (Linux vs Windows) which most games don't touch anyway. Once the drawing context has been created and abstracted access given to the I/O, that's it, the game takes over. Again, only if developers choose to marry themselves to DirectX would there be a problem.

I believe that is unfortunate. I want a pc to play rpgs on at 120fps, but a steam machine will not he it I am afraid.

It's not about 120fps, it's about a better alternative than console gaming. There is absolutely nothing preventing SteamOS to succeed, and there will be many major companies pushing for it's success including AMD, Nvidia and Intel. Everyone is against DirectX, so it makes an enormous amount of sense to champion SteamOS as the new de facto gaming standard.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Just to add on to Gour here, the 360 got nearly half of its console sales in the us, around 37 million of the 80ish million last I heard. It trounced ps3 in the us, and now ps4 is beating xb1 in the us, which leads many to believe that xb1 is in for a massive market contraction. Even if the xb1 and ps4 sell an equal amount in the us, that means ms losing a good chunk of its marketshare.

It's still very early in this generation. It hasn't even been a year. Microsoft got off to a massive lead last generation and Sony slowly (very slowly, as it just happened like last year) overtook them worldwide. I wouldn't consider an early lead by Sony this generation anything but that...early. I do expect Sony to maintain a lead overseas, but I think Microsoft will probably eventually overtake them in the US, especially once a new Halo game releases.

Now onto the Steam machines, with the Steam OS you lose a few things that are (ti me at least) pcs biggest draw. You lose backwards compatability, and the ability to upgrade for some of them (Alienware at least). One of the biggest pc draws for gaming is being able to play games from 20 years ago that you never got to, but most of those won't run on Steam OS. Hell even a lot of newer games don't have support for it, and until they do it will never take off for gaming.

SteamOS allows streaming from your main PC to your Steam machine over a home network. So long as you have a home PC capable of playing those older games, you should be able to stream them to your living room TV and play them on your Steam machine.

 

[getBUCKED]

The Halo Master Chief Collection is a power move by XBONE though. Easily its biggest franchise and coming to a next-gen system with massive amount of people wanting to go back to play multiplayer on H1/H2/H3. It's literally the only reason I'm even debating PS4 vs XBONE, because the PS4 is the better gaming system.

I think XBONE made a mistake in trying to become a full entertainment center. These days you can get almost any application you want via SMART TV's or a $30 Google Chromecast (and even more with a $50 Roku). I realize it's "convenience" of it being all on "One" system but I don't think it was the proper way to go about a gaming console.

 

[Jack Brickman]

I think XBONE made a mistake in trying to become a full entertainment center. These days you can get almost any application you want via SMART TV's or a $30 Google Chromecast (and even more with a $50 Roku). I realize it's "convenience" of it being all on "One" system but I don't think it was the proper way to go about a gaming console.

Personally, I love having almost all of my media apps, and even my cable, available on one box, especially when you add in voice control. It's surprisingly liberating to not have to spend much time dicking around with remotes when you want to switch apps.

 

[Mdog1]

SteamOS is an open platform. There will be plenty of folks porting emulators, Wine, and VMs to Steam once there is a reason to do so. I fully expect Steam Machines to have console emulation in year 1.



I wouldn't buy anything Alienware sells to begin with. But I think most Steam Machines are upgradable. They won't increase costs by soldering parts to the board.



Sounds like you don't do much PC gaming. I've never heard of anyone buying a PC to play 20 year old games. :chuckles:



Actually most games will support SteamOS out of the box. In fact, any game that supports OS X supports Steam OS pretty much already. PS4 games that have PC ports are also just a configuration change away from Steam. As of now, any game that uses any of the major game engines is already compatible.

Only games that develop their own internal engines, and then do so without using an API abstraction layer (like SDL), and then further compound the problem by selecting DirectX (why?), are not SteamOS compatible

There are very few games actually that cannot be ported to Steam quite easily (those totally reliant on DirectX or making WinAPI system calls <- no game should do this btw). The only difference between Steam and Windows is the OS API (Linux vs Windows) which most games don't touch anyway. Once the drawing context has been created and abstracted access given to the I/O, that's it, the game takes over. Again, only if developers choose to marry themselves to DirectX would there be a problem.



It's not about 120fps, it's about a better alternative than console gaming. There is absolutely nothing preventing SteamOS to succeed, and there will be many major companies pushing for it's success including AMD, Nvidia and Intel. Everyone is against DirectX, so it makes an enormous amount of sense to champion SteamOS as the new de facto gaming standard.

I didn't literally mean 20 years lol. Just saying it is an option. Actually the oldest game I can think of that I would want to play is the Witcher, or Call of Duty WAW (zombie mods).

I just fund it rediculous that the Alienware sm isn't upgradable. That is pcs biggest advantage over consoles...

Then why don't more games use Linux? Serious question. It seems like every big game that comes out has Windows requirements, and no Linux support. Linux is clearly the way to go imo, but my opinion doesn't matter lol.

@jack, ms did get off to a big lead last gen by virtue of being first on the market by a year. There is no such thing as brand loyalty when it comes to games. Sony dominated with ps2 in the us, and with ps3, the third place console in the us sold more than any second place console ever did, but they had a huge, 70+ million loss in marketshare worldwide.

There has never in the history of video games been a single game that turns around the fate of a console. The same thing you just said about the 2015 Halo was said about MGS4. How many hardcore Halo fans haven't already bought the console? I mean the people that cannot live without Halo, and would spend the money to play it. It isn't like they thought it would come to ps4, or wii u...

There was an interesting thread on Neogaf about Halo 4 vs the previous Halo. Halo 4 was a dead game, compared to previous iterations. Halo's days as a seller might be over. It happens to almost every big franchise, even Mario has seen a massive decline. Part of that is obviously due to being on a dead platform.

If HA does nothing for xb1 it will be time for ms to hit the panic button. That is their biggest move until halo 5 in winter 2015.

 

[Simon]

I really wish you can play XBOX 360 games on XBOX One. I have an old Halo I want to play, but XBOX 360 games don't work on the One, unless I'm missing something here.

 

[Simmy]

Anyone know of any murmurs regarding a price drop of the Xbox One? I've been a PS man all my life until I bought a 360 a couple of years back on the cheap. Since then, I've completely shifted to Xbox. For me, personally, the only major difference or factor that plays a part in my decision process is the controller. By the way I naturally hold a controller, my thumb and fingers seems to slide into place but more comfortably on an Xbox.

I'm thinking I'm going to upgrade when 2K15 drops (as I'm still getting my money's worth out of last season's games) but in Australia, I'm looking at like almost $600 AUD. Anyone heard anything regarding price drops or bundles? And is it worth me looking internationally to buy a unit (It'll have to be PAL compatible as opposed to NTSC)? Anyone got any recommendations for online stores?

 

[Mdog1]

I assume you mean NBA 2k15, so we're talking mid October? I don't know too much about Australian pricing, but I know if you could import from Germany, they are basically begging people to take them. There wasn't a single XB1 game in the top 50 games in Germany the last chart I saw.

You could likely get an XB1 w Kinect and Titanfall for around the same price you would pay for a kinectless XB1 in Aus.

Good luck to you.

Also the XB1 lost June NPD... Things aren't looking good for Xbox in the US. The next month they even have a shot to win is whenever the MCC comes out, but if it is November (I think it is?), then PS4 will likely win that month just based on increased holiday sales.

If XB1 can't win when the Halo collection comes out, it will very likely not win a single month until Halo 5 comes out next year.

 

[Simmy]

I assume you mean NBA 2k15, so we're talking mid October? I don't know too much about Australian pricing, but I know if you could import from Germany, they are basically begging people to take them. There wasn't a single XB1 game in the top 50 games in Germany the last chart I saw.

You could likely get an XB1 w Kinect and Titanfall for around the same price you would pay for a kinectless XB1 in Aus.

Good luck to you.

Also the XB1 lost June NPD... Things aren't looking good for Xbox in the US. The next month they even have a shot to win is whenever the MCC comes out, but if it is November (I think it is?), then PS4 will likely win that month just based on increased holiday sales.

If XB1 can't win when the Halo collection comes out, it will very likely not win a single month until Halo 5 comes out next year.

Yep, NBA 2K15 so mid October. At the moment, they're doing bundle packs including FIFA 14 and I think Forza 5 (some other stores are doing other lower tier games) for $598 which is ridiculous. How much is it going for in the States at the moment?

Wow. Thanks for the info RE: Germany. I'll look into it most definitely.

So basically the PS4 is far and wide ahead of the XB1 in the market? I'm kind of torn. My little brother bought a PS4 a couple of months ago so that was another reason I wanted to get an XB1 for myself. I'm not one for buying a console because certain games are playable only on particular units - I like to stick to my sports games + your major games like Splinter Cell and Tomb Raider etc. so I'm still thinking that the XB1 might be the right choice for me at this point.

 

[Mdog1]

Yep, NBA 2K15 so mid October. At the moment, they're doing bundle packs including FIFA 14 and I think Forza 5 (some other stores are doing other lower tier games) for $598 which is ridiculous. How much is it going for in the States at the moment?

Wow. Thanks for the info RE: Germany. I'll look into it most definitely.

So basically the PS4 is far and wide ahead of the XB1 in the market? I'm kind of torn. My little brother bought a PS4 a couple of months ago so that was another reason I wanted to get an XB1 for myself. I'm not one for buying a console because certain games are playable only on particular units - I like to stick to my sports games + your major games like Splinter Cell and Tomb Raider etc. so I'm still thinking that the XB1 might be the right choice for me at this point.

I would imagine Germany is your best bet. Check Germany amazon. Spain is another good one to check too, if you could import from there.

As for which console to choose, honestly it doesn't matter. If you don't want to play first party games, then just pick whichever one you want, based on whatever you want. There is likely very little risk, as in less than 1% that they stop making games for XB1, even if they get trounced.

Right now, estimates put it around 8-8.5 million ps4s, and it is pretty much a consensus of 4.8 for XB1.

That means xb1 has sold 1.8 million consoles this year, and ps4 has sold nearly around 4 million.

Back to the price, with XB losing its "price cut" month, I wouldn't be surprised if the deals started to flow. It won't be official, but some retailers will likely have them.

Good luck hunting.

 

[gourimoko]

I would imagine Germany is your best bet. Check Germany amazon. Spain is another good one to check too, if you could import from there.

As for which console to choose, honestly it doesn't matter. If you don't want to play first party games, then just pick whichever one you want, based on whatever you want. There is likely very little risk, as in less than 1% that they stop making games for XB1, even if they get trounced.

Right now, estimates put it around 8-8.5 million ps4s, and it is pretty much a consensus of 4.8 for XB1.

That means xb1 has sold 1.8 million consoles this year, and ps4 has sold nearly around 4 million.

Back to the price, with XB losing its "price cut" month, I wouldn't be surprised if the deals started to flow. It won't be official, but some retailers will likely have them.

Good luck hunting.

With Microsoft's new commitment to One Windows, I think they'll drop Xbox as a gaming platform - it will become an HTPC and they'll transition into a niche market. I'm not saying it's for certain, but I don't think you can have a single operating system that is tailored for both server and gaming based on Windows unless they did a complete overhaul, especially with the way the GPU APIs are rounding out for the next-gen.

I really think Microsoft is done making advanced gaming systems. Not saying there won't be another Xbox, but it won't be a powerful gaming platform. Relatively speaking, compared to PCs at the time of release, the next Xbox will probably be weaker than the present one.

Just my opinion, but that's the direction I see Microsoft going with their latest Windows announcement.

 

[Mdog1]

I have serious doubts that MS will ever make another console. It is hard to project how many they will sell overall at this point, but it is likely safe to assume that they will lose at minimum half of their install base in the US, and the UK.

I would guess they will be lucky to sell 40 million.

Considering they haven't made a profit yet, in over a decade, I think their short run will be over, to the benefit of the industry. The worst thing to happen to the industry.