Y'all mofos need Jesus

[The Human Q-Tip]

Seasoned vet, you really need to reconsider the idea that Catholics aren't Christian because their tradition doesn't focus as much on individual reading. I'd say that's a rather prideful condemnation of a group, and the product of ignorance of Biblical tradition.

As you know, the "Bible" is a collection of various letters and texts dating back thousands of years. But the Gospel of Mark wasn't even written until 40 years or so after Christ died. Other books of the New Testament weren't written until decades and, in some cases, hundreds of years after Christ died. So were all those early followers of Christ, all the martyrs, not Christian because they relied upon someone else telling them about Christ, rather than reading the Word for themselves?

And then there was the process of deciding which of all those letters and texts would be considered "official", and included in what we now refer to as the single book, "The Bible". And that didn't really happen until about 400 A.D. or so, when one of the conferences of bishops, a synod, periodically called by church leaders was held. If you go back and read about those things, they were hugely political. Depending upon which particular faction was in control in Constantinople, they'd send out late invitations to those bishops with whom they disagreed to ensure they'd control votes on which books would be considered canon. In fact, the content of the New Testament you read wasn't formally decided upon until the Council of Trent in 1525, by the Catholic Church.

So if you're going to assume that "Catholics aren't Christians", then you've got to get past the fact that all of our Christian tradition, including the content of the Bible itself, comes from that Catholic Church, with all the divinely inspired texts actually being written down/copied by divinely inspired Catholic monks.

I'd also point out that for most of history, the vast majority of people could not read, and there weren't even printing presses to print Bibles for people to read. The only ones who even had access to those hand-copied Bibles were Church officials. So the only choice they had was to read the Word as told to them by priests, bishops, etc.. In essence, an extension of the same oral traditions upon which early Christians had to rely. Yet to you, none of those people were Christian because they didn't (and couldn't) read the Bible the way you do today.

So by your logic, Christianity didn't even exist until the last few hundred years. Which makes no sense.

 

[Ohdang]

Just seemed appropriate.

 

[Soda]

Seasoned vet, you really need to reconsider the idea that Catholics aren't Christian because their tradition doesn't focus as much on individual reading. I'd say that's a rather prideful condemnation of a group, and the product of ignorance of Biblical tradition.

As you know, the "Bible" is a collection of various letters and texts dating back thousands of years. But the Gospel of Mark wasn't even written until 40 years or so after Christ died. Other books of the New Testament weren't written until decades and, in some cases, hundreds of years after Christ died. So were all those early followers of Christ, all the martyrs, not Christian because they relied upon someone else telling them about Christ, rather than reading the Word for themselves?

And then there was the process of deciding which of all those letters and texts would be considered "official", and included in what we now refer to as the single book, "The Bible". And that didn't really happen until about 400 A.D. or so, when one of the conferences of bishops, a synod, periodically called by church leaders was held. If you go back and read about those things, they were hugely political. Depending upon which particular faction was in control in Constantinople, they'd send out late invitations to those bishops with whom they disagreed to ensure they'd control votes on which books would be considered canon. In fact, the content of the New Testament you read wasn't formally decided upon until the Council of Trent in 1525, by the Catholic Church.

So if you're going to assume that "Catholics aren't Christians", then you've got to get past the fact that all of our Christian tradition, including the content of the Bible itself, comes from that Catholic Church, with all the divinely inspired texts actually being written down/copied by divinely inspired Catholic monks.

I'd also point out that for most of history, the vast majority of people could not read, and there weren't even printing presses to print Bibles for people to read. The only ones who even had access to those hand-copied Bibles were Church officials. So the only choice they had was to read the Word as told to them by priests, bishops, etc.. In essence, an extension of the same oral traditions upon which early Christians had to rely. Yet to you, none of those people were Christian because they didn't (and couldn't) read the Bible the way you do today.

So by your logic, Christianity didn't even exist until the last few hundred years. Which makes no sense.

Sinner! Nobody educates except for The Bible and the Church!

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

This is either an elaborate troll job (impressive), or this is just crazy.

I don't think he's trolling -- he really believes it. But it's not his beliefs that bother me -- it's that he refuses to consider as Christian anyone whose beliefs don't match his exactly.

 

[The Oi]

I'm confident he's a troll.

He's gotten absolutely throttled in here and been wrong many, many times. He ignores it or throws an irrelevant picture at it without addressing the point or admitting he's wrong.

Standard troll maneuvers.

 

[Cratylus]

I've been debating getting involved in this discussion since, you know, it's my area of expertise. But The Human Q-Tip summed up a few of my thoughts rather succinctly, so I'll keep spectating a little longer to see if/how seasoned vet continues. He seems to be all over the map with his absurdities and inaccuracies so a thorough retort would take far too much time... time that I simply don't have and don't care to make for such a task.

 

[Walter White]

He has to be a troll. If not, he is making mistakes that make most people resent Christians. By condemning people and shoving stuff down your throat. People won't be and shouldn't be receptive to that. Don't let the few that do that paint a bad picture for all Christians. Maybe this guy means well and just doesn't know how to express himself, or maybe he has come in with the sole purpose to make Christians look bad, I don't know.

I think you guys know I'm a christian. I had some pretty good discussions with you guys (mostly Gour) about God (can't remember which thread). So if you can direct any real questions you have to me, and I won't be rude about it or throw it back in your face.

As far as the end times go. We have basically been living in the end times since the Earth was created. And people have been preaching for about just as long. And they are all correct I suppose (even though they probably thought "there" time was literally the end time). This guy acting like he knows it is going to happen in our lifetime just isn't right. He even said himself the verse I was going to say, only God himself knows that time. I'm not saying it isn't possible that it could happen in our lifetime, but there have been some pretty big crises' over history. But time does seem to move really fast. I feel like I was just a little kid just yesterday. And I'll probably be 80 before I know it.

 

[pr26]

I'm confident he's a troll.

He's gotten absolutely throttled in here and been wrong many, many times. He ignores it or throws an irrelevant picture at it without addressing the point or admitting he's wrong.

Standard troll maneuvers.

I'm with ya. The video and praise song sealed it for me.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I don't think he's a troll simply because the "Catholics aren't Christians" argument is a counter-intuitive argument that, unfortunately, is too common among some Protestant sects.

That being said, while I don't like exclusive fundamentalist-types who set themselves up as God by deciding who is a "real" Christian and who isn't, I like even less those who mock other people's religions. Never can quite figure out why non-believers feel so compelled to mock the beliefs of others.

 

[Soda]

He has to be a troll. If not, he is making mistakes that make most people resent Christians. By condemning people and shoving stuff down your throat. People won't be and shouldn't be receptive to that. Don't let the few that do that paint a bad picture for all Christians. Maybe this guy means well and just doesn't know how to express himself, or maybe he has come in with the sole purpose to make Christians look bad, I don't know.

This happens to be my big rub about the religious folks I've experienced. It's like I'm HS senior Jameis Winston going to visit Alabama every time I step foot in front of them... Guess what, if you "turn your back" to their know-it-all way of teaching you, you're pretty much worthless... Your point, character and beliefs are immediately shrugged off as plain wrong..

I mean, shit, the Hamas and ISIS issues are extremist Muslims shoving stuff down others' throats...

Why is it that it seems like people aren't just happy enough having the freedom to practice their own religion (in the US, I'm saying)? Why is everyone a "customer" to what the religious person is "selling"?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

This happens to be my big rub about the religious folks I've experienced. It's like I'm HS senior Jameis Winston going to visit Alabama every time I step foot in front of them... Guess what, if you "turn your back" to their know-it-all way of teaching you, you're pretty much worthless... Your point, character and beliefs are immediately shrugged off as plain wrong..

I mean, shit, the Hamas and ISIS issues are extremist Muslims shoving stuff down others' throats...

Why is it that it seems like people aren't just happy enough having the freedom to practice their own religion (in the US, I'm saying)? Why is everyone a "customer" to what the religious person is "selling"?

Don't lump all "religious folk" together. There are a great many Christians who are not exclusive, and who try to come as close as possible to living a good life. It's the same with Islam and many other religions. While there are some who take their beliefs to an extreme, there are many who do not, and who focus on the best in that religion even though most of the major religions have some bad stuff in their history.

 

[Soda]

Don't lump all "religious folk" together. There are a great many Christians who are not exclusive, and who try to come as close as possible to living a good life. It's the same with Islam and many other religions. While there are some who take their beliefs to an extreme, there are many who do not, and who focus on the best in that religion even though most of the major religions have some bad stuff in their history.

Absolutely not trying to. That's why I said "folks I've experienced". It's clear to me at this point in life that generalizing an entire faction of people is not the way to go, like ever... It's difficult to keep in mind for as much discussion as we have about it here, but I try to keep the scope of my life's experiences separate from the whole idea of clumping everyone into a construct that's convenient for me.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Absolutely not trying to. That's why I said "folks I've experienced". It's clear to me at this point in life that generalizing an entire faction of people is not the way to go, like ever... It's difficult to keep in mind for as much discussion as we have about it here, but I try to keep the scope of my life's experiences separate from the whole idea of clumping everyone into a construct that's convenient for me.

Got it. I don't see anything wrong with recognizing flaws in religious practices. The Catholic Church had some pretty messed up ideas for about 1000 years. It wasn't all of them, nor was every Pope, cardinal, bishop, or priest corrupt or motivated by self-interest. But there were enough problems that it was fair to mistrust the Church for awhile. The Reformation helped clear up some of that, but like any group, membership in a church doesn't guarantee virtue. If evildoers didn't have the excuse of religion, they'd just find another excuse.

Likewise, I'm not a fan of putting heads in the sand regarding radical Islam. Pretending that those problems don't exist or that they are unrelated to Islam itself doesn't help either. But, just as there were plenty of good Christians and reformers during times when that Church was doing some nasty stuff, there are good Muslims as well.

 

[Walter White]

I've said this before, but I don't like the term "religious" because it has a negative connotation to me. I'm just talking about me personally, but I feel it is just comes with the assumption that it is false. For example, when I see "christians" becoming ritualistic, HAVING to do things and doing everything a certain way etc., I see that as religious and a bad thing. I don't want to get too deep here, but the point is that all of that stuff is wrong and unnecessary because all you have to do is accept Jesus. It is that simple. While many churches try to make it difficult and like to condemn you.

I don't think people really understand God's grace, love, and favor and how you are righteous through God because God is good. It can't be earned and as humans especially, we can never be perfect. The reason many people don't understand it is the fault of the churches. I think non Christians or athiests can even sense the BS some churches spew and when a church is dead. I know it sounds bad that I'm a christian knocking churches right now, but this is truth. People know truth when they hear it. I wouldn't dare go to most churches because they are spiritually dead, might do you more harm than good. Find a church that is spiritually alive and preaching truth. I don't know how to explain it, but I think you can sense it. No church is perfect, but some are way better than others. Non-denominational could be a good place to look.

I have had many spiritual experiences and I have known God is real, pretty much from the start. Is was something I never struggled with. But how could you believe me? If I told you some of the things I have encountered, you wouldn't believe me or say it wasn't real or make something up. So I guess it requires some sort of faith no matter what. But the whole thing is, I can't convince and don't want to convince you, it is something that you have to experience yourself to understand. I would just want to do my best to help point you in the right direction. You can never force anybody to believe anything. That is always a choice you yourself have to make.

 

[Simon]

What was suppose to be about an earthquake and turned into a religion debate thanks to someone....

nice title change whoever did it!