Trayvon Martin 911 Call From Neighbors and Zimmerman (Audio)

Re: Max's admittedly clever post, it depends- as mentioned in the article- on a variety of factors as to whether it feels colder or not after it rains. The article even mentioned that winter rain even has the opposite effect of summer rain.

The fact of the matter is this: Zimmerman COULD have said cold and he COULD have felt cold. For all we know, he has the faulty and weak circulation system of my wife. He might be the asshole in a group of guys that bundles up while everyone's watching TV in the basement because his toes are turning blue.

But he also COULD have said coon and he COULD interpret all blacks as being coons, or at least thoaw wearing hoodies.

It's subjective...and in a stand your ground case, I'm not sure whether he made a racial slur would matter??

gourimoko said:

Know what I see? I see a kid. I see a kid, acting like a kid, dressed as a kid, doing kid things. I dunno what you see, but I tell you what; it seems a lot of people see something they're afraid of. And to be honest, whether Treyvon rocked a grill or not, they'd be afraid of him, and deep down they wouldn't give a damn if one more black kid got took off the street.

Since this case got started, I really didn't care much until I started seeing people vehemently defending Zimmerman.. George Zimmerman. A worthless piece of shit, a grown man (my age) who shot and killed a fucking 150-170lb KID.. A fucking kid. Shot him in the chest, after chasing him around pretending to be a cop. And there are actually people defending this scum.

People are so afraid they're posting pictures of him in "threatening" poses, with threatening looks, and questioning his work ethic in school -- rather than remembering that he was in fucking high school to begin with. His entire life still ahead of him. "He's not a kid, he's 17!" "He's wearing gold teeth!" "He smoked marijuana, OMG!" "Hoodies are thug-like.." Anything to rationalize his murder. Anything to make sense of why some people just want this kid dead.

Treyvon Martin was walking home to his dad's house, while being a black man in America.. wearing a hoodie, and he got shot to death for it.




"He will make use of me dead, as he has made use of me alive, as a convenient symbol, of "hatred"--and that will help him escape facing the truth that all I have been doing is holding up a mirror to reflect, to show, the history of unspeakable crimes that his race has committed against my race.” --

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When I was a kid, we didn't do this. Also, are you kidding me, The whole world condemned Zimmerman as the worst person on earth. Almost the entire black community got up in arms about Zimmerman. NOBODY was defending the guy. That was before facts were made clear.

MoneyForGyros said:

When I was a kid, we didn't do this. Also, are you kidding me, The whole world condemned Zimmerman as the worst person on earth. Almost the entire black community got up in arms about Zimmerman. NOBODY was defending the guy. That was before facts were made clear.

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I did this as a kid, out of my 4 teenagers two of them did this type of stuff, being rebellious is very common in teen agers... not really a news flash.

Jigo_oi said:

But he also COULD have said coon

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No he couldn't have...and he didn't. If I hook you, Reverand Al, and the Martins themselves up to a lie detectors and let them listen to that 2:00-2:20 of enhanced audio - no one would would believe "coon" was said. No one.

He may be a racist. He probably profiled the kid because he was black. But, he wasn't hunting a black kid down to execute. He absolutely did not say "fucking coons". So let's not make this case into something it's not.

Gour said:

I really didn't care much until I started seeing people vehemently defending Zimmerman.. George Zimmerman. A worthless piece of shit, a grown man (my age) who shot and killed a fucking 150-170lb KID.. A fucking kid. Shot him in the chest, after chasing him around pretending to be a cop. And there are actually people defending this scum.

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I didn't really care much until I started seeing people turn this into a racist execution.

The picture Gour just painted there is of Zimmerman yelling "STOP, I'm the police". Then chasing a little "kid" all over the neghborhood, then upon catching him just shooting him in the chest. IF THAT WERE TRUE, I'd be all for charging him with hate crimes, murder 1 and giving him the electric chair on public square.

I'm not trying to defend Zimmerman, I'm trying to defend the facts.

Maximus said:

I didn't really care much until I started seeing people turn this into a racist execution.

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That's what happened when Treyvon Martin got shot and killed. Zimmerman suspected he was "on drugs or something, just wondering around" when in fact he was on his way home from the store.

Maximus said:

The picture Gour just painted there is of Zimmerman yelling "STOP, I'm the police".

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Or following someone around a housing complex as if you had any reason or authority whatsoever to do so. This in and of itself would incite anyone. But again, Treyvon Martin was up to no good. Zimmerman couldn't let him "get away."

Maximus said:

Then chasing a little "kid" all over the neghborhood,

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How old was Treyvon Martin? How old is Kyrie Irving? How many posts, news articles, announcers, etc refer to Irving as a "kid?" Why isn't it appropriate when the subject is actually a minor?

Maximus said:

then upon catching him just shooting him in the chest.

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Whatever happened between Zimmerman and Martin isn't really relevant unless we believe Zimmerman's life was in danger. And I for one, simply don't believe that for a second. Do you?

More importantly, since we're talking about racism, is the fact that Zimmerman profiled Treyvon Martin clearly on tape as a drugged out hoodlum, and he was determined to stop him - and so he did. That's where Zimmerman's defense flies out the window, because when he left his vehicle to pursue Treyvon Martin, he left behind any pretense of self-defense.

Maximus said:

IF THAT WERE TRUE, I'd be all for charging him with hate crimes, murder 1 and giving him the electric chair on public square.

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One hell of a way to set up a false dilemma..

Maximus said:

I'm not trying to defend Zimmerman, I'm trying to defend the facts.

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Didn't see any facts anywhere in your post.. And throughout this thread I've just seen conjecture, on both "sides." It's just a damn shame that the only fact that has actually been established, which is that Treyvon Martin -a child- was killed in a questionable (at best) homicide by George Zimmerman who has yet to be brought up on charges. That's the only fact we have to work with thus far.

Wow. Fuck that guy.

MoneyForGyros said:

When I was a kid, we didn't do this. Also, are you kidding me, The whole world condemned Zimmerman as the worst person on earth. Almost the entire black community got up in arms about Zimmerman. NOBODY was defending the guy. That was before facts were made clear.

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When i was a kid I was not as much of a rebel, punk or whatever negative term you want to use to describe Trayvon, but I was still a rebel. I threw snowballs at cop cars, got arrested for stupid pranks, i ran the streets after dark, and I wore hoodies even back then. I will say that if a fake wanna be cop came up to 17 year old Lee asking me questions like he is authority, I wouldnt take kindly either. I would have mouthed off to him and probably would have vandalized his car, ie slash his tires.

Today I am an adult with 2 college degrees, a professional job, a wife, 2 kids, a home, etc. My point?

I got the chance to grow up and become an adult and a contributing member of society. Something Trayvon will never do because Zimmerman at the very least thought a loaded gun was more appropriate than a taser or other non lethal form of defense, never mind who started the fight.

Maximus said:

No he couldn't have...and he didn't. If I hook you, Reverand Al, and the Martins themselves up to a lie detectors and let them listen to that 2:00-2:20 of enhanced audio - no one would would believe "coon" was said. No one.

He may be a racist. He probably profiled the kid because he was black. But, he wasn't hunting a black kid down to execute. He absolutely did not say "fucking coons". So let's not make this case into something it's not.

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I'm just not sure how you're arriving at the conclusion that the guy could not POSSIBLY have said fucking coons. I listened to it...and I think he could have said coons. Fuckin Sharpton and the Martins of COURSE are going to say he DEFINITELY said coons, because it fits with their narrative. They might be right...they might not.

The problem with this entire case, and most cases that get tried in the media is that people start speaking in absolutes (as I did early on in the case) and when they get proven wrong they are forced to back-track...while the media- the people who REALLY fucked up- have no obligation to do so. Their job is to make an interesting story. Producer wants this to be racial profiling? It's racial profiling...let's get the Martin's on camera. Let's get Sharp and Jesse Jackson on camera and let's ignore the possibility that he DIDN'T say coons. We want Zimmerman to be a power hungry (which he was) racist POS who was out searching for a black kid to kill? Well...he said coons and he had a history of calling 911 every five seconds, mostly on black people!!

Producer wants this to be another badly behaved black kid (which he was) whose ignorant family is playing the race card? We want to set up the Martins, Jesse Jackson and Sharpton to drive up ratings by creating another black vs white scenario (when ZImmerman isn't really white)...you got it. Zimmerman said it was cold outside. IMPOSSIBLE that he said anything else. He said it was cold and didn't say coons...thus he can't POSSIBLY be racist and couldn't possibly have wanted to kill a black kid. As a white Johnnie Cochran would say, "If the white guy says he's cold, then he can't be a racist."


My point is that this is another example of a case where we've got too many people speaking in absolutes when the story keeps changing every 2-3 days. Too many people telling others that they have to think something, can't possibly think something or should trust a certain narrative because it fits with their already established viewpoint. White guys are doing it, black guys (like Maximus) are doing it, Republicans, Democrats...all across the board.

I'M not trying to turn this into a racial war. I'm not trying to say Zimmerman was a monster or Zimmerman was perfect. I'm not trying to say either of those things about Trayvon either. What I'm trying to do is to take a step back from the situation and keep my mind open to the idea that NO media is legitimately trust-worthy, media has the goal of driving up viewership regardless of how dishonestly they do it, and I'm suggesting that people cool down and wait for the story to develop. Gather some facts on their own if they're that interested. Try to stay objective. Don't fucking picket Sanford, FL's businesses because Sharp says you should and because you think their police did a shitty job on this one.

How embarrassed is everyone going to be when they turn out to be wrong about such an incendiary case? A lot of people are going to be wrong and it's POSSIBLE that you are, very possible. It's also been proven already that some of my initial reactions to the case were wrong, because I went right along with the original narrative that I heard.

I'm not saying he said coon. I'm not saying he didn't. I'm saying it's extremely difficult to know whether he did or not and that this case has really taught me to develop opinions on my own when it comes to big media stories, rather than trusting a bunch of agenda-based, biased media outlets to give me facts. Maybe it's sad that it took me this long to figure it out, but it did.

There's many lessons to be learned from this one though, and I think they'll come about over time.

If Zimmerman is found not guilty, how will the black community react? I really think someone will try to kill the guy. But more or less he goes into witness protection of some kind.

gourimoko said:

Whatever happened between Zimmerman and Martin isn't really relevant unless we believe Zimmerman's life was in danger.

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Problem is...in the end, it doesn't matter whether you, Max and I think Zimmerman's life was in danger. It matters whether ZIMMERMAN thought his life was in danger.

And that's what this whole thing really hinges on. Everything else is just a side discussion. Side discussion worth having, for sure. But you, Max, me, the black folks picketing Sanford, blacks who hate whites, whites who hate blacks...we/they don't mean shit.

I cant tell what word the dude said. Whatever someone says he said a particular word, I hear the word. In San Diego, its always 75... You get used to the weather and maybe im just speaking for myself but I feel cold as fuck even if its slightly below the temperature i've grown accustomed to.

Bainbridge Ohio, where I grew up, consists of a lot of backwards hillbillies and I dont think I ever heard the word coon used as a racial slur, even as a joke.

Jigo_oi said:

Problem is...in the end, it doesn't matter whether you, Max and I think Zimmerman's life was in danger. It matters whether ZIMMERMAN thought his life was in danger.

And that's what this whole thing really hinges on. Everything else is just a side discussion. Side discussion worth having, for sure. But you, Max, me, the black folks picketing Sanford, blacks who hate whites, whites who hate blacks...we/they don't mean shit.

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Here's the thing, we can't actually debate his intent at the moment.. As has been said, the trajectory of the bullet will be important. Did he shoot through Martin into the ground, or up into him from the ground? We'll find out surely.

I think the larger point is this: Had Zimmerman not profiled Martin, both would be better off today - with Treyvon Martin actually still being alive. That's the "racism" that many seem to be missing. It isn't that Zimmerman said "coon." To me, that'd be shocking but I never really believed it or deemed it necessary to demonstrate racism. It's the profiling. It's the fact that he saw a young Black man and assumed he was a criminal, and the resulting outcome of that assumption was Martin's death.

That's what's most vitally important. That's why Blacks are picketing in Sanford, and that's why President Obama spoke on the subject. It's also what many Whites are simply not understanding about this case.

It isn't "Zimmerman is a Klansman lock him up," but more accurately "Racism is still prevalent, stop targeting us and our kids, whether you mean to consciously or not!"

George Zimmerman used tremendous restraint before using his weapon. You can stick up for Trayvon all you want, I get that, but Zimmerman claimed Trayvon went for his gun.

You're also going to find out that those screams are Zimmermans, when you do find that out, listen to his screams for help and tell me that doesn't sound like someone who obviously thought their life could be in danger. There is nothing pussy about getting sucker punched when you're not looking for a fight and then getting your head beat in on the ground. I don't care who you are or how tough you are, an injury to the head can be life altering.

I guess some of you skipped over the story I posted about Zimmerman. Here's an tidbit from a letter the relative wrote about Zimmerman:


"You will recall the incident of the beating of the black homeless man Sherman Ware on December 4, 2010 by the son of a Sanford police officer. The beating sparked an outrage in the community but there were very few that stepped up to do anything about it. I would presume the inaction was because of the fact that he was homeless not because he was black. Do you know the individual that stepped up when no one else in the black community would? Do you know who spent tireless hours putting flyers on the cars of persons parked in the churches of the black community? Do you know who waited for the church‐goers to get out of church so that he could hand them fliers in an attempt to organize the black community against this horrible miscarriage of justice? Do you know who helped organize the City Hall meeting on January 8th , 2011 at Sanford City Hall?? That person was GEORGE ZIMMERMAN. Ironic isn’t it?"


http://nicholasstixuncensored.blogspot.ca/2012/04/relative-of-george-zimmerman-george.html


He was trying to push back and call out the same police department that didn't charge him! The sister of the homeless man is now at these rallies labeling George a racist. How fucking sad is that? This man tutors black teenagers on the weekends, he tries to stick up for his community and all everyone does is shit on him as if he wanted to shoot Trayvon. All he needs is one Robert The Bruce from the black community and nobody will come forward because they are COWARDS.

Wait for the facts because your tape, your audio, your opinions have already been shot down out of the sky many times over. It's only a matter of time when the facts come out, I hope you are able to handle them because so far you have failed miserably.

gourimoko said:

Here's the thing, we can't actually debate his intent at the moment.. As has been said, the trajectory of the bullet will be important. Did he shoot through Martin into the ground, or up into him from the ground? We'll find out surely.

I think the larger point is this: Had Zimmerman not profiled Martin, both would be better off today - with Treyvon Martin actually still being alive. That's the "racism" that many seem to be missing. It isn't that Zimmerman said "coon." To me, that'd be shocking but I never really believed it or deemed it necessary to demonstrate racism. It's the profiling. It's the fact that he saw a young Black man and assumed he was a criminal, and the resulting outcome of that assumption was Martin's death.

That's what's most vitally important. That's why Blacks are picketing in Sanford, and that's why President Obama spoke on the subject. It's also what many Whites are simply not understanding about this case.

It isn't "Zimmerman is a Klansman lock him up," but more accurately "Racism is still prevalent, stop targeting us and our kids, whether you mean to consciously or not!"

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The biggest issue with the word coon is if it cant be proven that he said it, the Feds have no authority over the case and must revert it back to the local authorities. It only becomes a federal offense if it can be proven this is a hate crime. Profiling the Trayvon as a punk kid is not a hate crime. Following him because he is a Fucking Coon is a hate crime. Problem is I dont think Zimmerman said it and now the bungling idiots of the local police and prosecutor's office take bake sole possession of this crime.

But in the end, the law is the law, and I just cant believe this is a hate crime. Its more of a crime of stupidity and blind over zealous.

Lee said:

The biggest issue with the word coon is if it cant be proven that he said it, the Feds have no authority over the case and must revert it back to the local authorities. It only becomes a federal offense if it can be proven this is a hate crime. Profiling the Trayvon as a punk kid is not a hate crime. Following him because he is a Fucking Coon is a hate crime. Problem is I dont think Zimmerman said it and now the bungling idiots of the local police and prosecutor's office take bake sole possession of this crime.

But in the end, the law is the law, and I just cant believe this is a hate crime. Its more of a crime of stupidity and blind over zealous.

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Hate crimes predate hate crime statutes. The FBI has prosecuted numerous individuals for civil rights violations when they had in fact obviously committed murder. And while Zimmerman saying "coon" on the tape could possibly open the door to federal action (in fact, it would almost necessitate it), it isn't necessary for the FBI to launch an investigation or even charge Zimmerman.

But that is neither here nor there. A grand jury will certain indite Zimmerman, no question and he'll stand trial locally.