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Four Team Deal Sends Howard to Lakers

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Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

There's too much money and assets involved to hope we can resign Bynum after next year. His word and feelings are worth absolutely nothing. If he says he wants to be a Cav, why not sign an extension. In summary, money talks and bullshit walks.

Which is exactly why Bynum or Howard won't be signing any extensions. As already discussed these guys will make more money if they sign next summer. Any team that trades for Bynum or Dwight will have to factor that in.
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

There's too much money and assets involved to hope we can resign Bynum after next year. His word and feelings are worth absolutely nothing. If he says he wants to be a Cav, why not sign an extension. In summary, money talks and bullshit walks.

Would you leave $40 million on the table when you could easily get it by waiting 10 months?
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

I get the sense that some people are desperate to trade for Bynum. Quite frankly, I don't get it. The rebuild is coming along nicely and we should continue to build the team, as we have been. If we have an opportunity to acquire a young, potential star long-term, without stripping this team of assets, then we should look into it. Otherwise, stay the course.

Despite what he or his agent might say publicly or behind the scenes, there's no way we can pin him down without getting him to extend his deal, which he isn't going to do. That said, Bynum leaving after a year is a risk that we would take, if we were to acquire him. Again, that's a risk I only consider if the price is right. I have a really hard time believing that Orlando would take back just AV, picks, & some ending contracts in this deal. Why would they have interest in a 30 year old big, who doesn't seem to fit in with their rebuild? :dunno: The more I think about it, the more I think there's no way this deal happens.

What's not to understand? A 24 year old All NBA player with his prime years ahead of him wants to play for the cavs and you don't get why we want to trade for him? How many times in team history has an All NBA player about to enter their prime said they want to play in cleveland? I'm pretty sure this is the first time. The reason you stockpile assets and cap space in the first place is to be ready for an opportunity like this.

Kyrie (#1 pick): 20 years old
Waiters (#4 pick): 20 years old
Thompson (#4 pick): 21 years old
Zeller (#17 pick we had projected at #11): 22 years old
Bynum (#10 pick): 24 years old

We can have a core that young with two all stars and still have cap space to sign an all star SF in 2014. We also have 6 first round picks in the next 3 drafts. We can use a couple of those to get Bynum without setting the franchise back.
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

What's not to understand? A 24 year old All NBA player with his prime years ahead of him wants to play for the cavs and you don't get why we want to trade for him? How many times in team history has an All NBA player about to enter their prime said they want to play in cleveland? I'm pretty sure this is the first time. The reason you stockpile assets and cap space in the first place is to be ready for an opportunity like this.

Kyrie (#1 pick): 20 years old
Waiters (#4 pick): 20 years old
Thompson (#4 pick): 21 years old
Zeller (#17 pick we had projected at #11): 22 years old
Bynum (#10 pick): 24 years old

We can have a core that young with two all stars and still have cap space to sign an all star SF in 2014. We also have 6 first round picks in the next 3 drafts. We can use a couple of those to get Bynum without setting the franchise back.

What proof do you have that Bynum wants to play for the Cavs??
Woj reported that Bynum would be interested in Dallas, Houston, or Cleveland, all of whom are/were expected to have cap room next summer. However, Bynum's agent told Jason Lloyd that he has no idea how/where that report came from.
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

Would you leave $40 million on the table when you could easily get it by waiting 10 months?

No, I wouldn't. :)

But would you take the immediate cash out option on the Ohio Lottery, or take the small annual payments? (at least it's a close comparison :chuckles:)

I can see an argument for wanting to be guaranteed a "max" 4 year deal now, instead of playing out this year hoping to go injury-free and not having any other set-backs happen. But like I said, if it were me, I'd wait until next year to sign the deal no matter what jersey I'm wearing this season.
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

Doesn't matter though. Every GM wiffs. It is part of the job. The point is the 4 main players for OKC were acquired in 3 drafts using 4 picks. We had 4 picks in 2 drafts and now it is time to use some of those additional picks (in other drafts) for another star while these players develop.

I think that was what I said. Except I meant that you can either view it as the rebuilding began a year after Lebron left (as OKC's began immediately) or that year so 2-3.

Also a good way to put it in perspective:
http://82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

Values a spot, using all picks over the last 20 years.


NOTE: (I am not saying that is the likelihood I am saying this is what in any given draft the analysis says- like interesting anomally about 3 being better than 1- makes some sense as you'd think if drafted at 3 you aren't going to say the clippers pre CP3 and can develop)

OKC DRAFT CORE
Pick Value Potential
2 21.6 60% Star
3 26 85% Star
4 22.2 60% Star
24 13 15% Star

AVG
OKC 20.7 3/4 you have over 50% Star

CAVS DRAFT CORE
Pick Value %
1 27 70
4 22.2 60
4 22.2 60
17 11.7 20
AVG
CAVS 20.77 Again Same as above


In other words. Without naming players. Given those two draft orderings 3 players on each of OKC and CLE have over a 50% chance of being a "star". CLE and OKC in those 4 picks are equal for value at 20.7.

I realize this is where numbers can deceive but it is a bit eery how similar the picks/values are.


Edit: man when did everyone get so stingy with the thank button? I thought this was good stuff, LOL.
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

What proof do you have that Bynum wants to play for the Cavs??
Woj reported that Bynum would be interested in Dallas, Houston, or Cleveland, all of whom are/were expected to have cap room next summer. However, Bynum's agent told Jason Lloyd that he has no idea how/where that report came from.

There have been other reports about Bynum wanting to play in cleveland. He's also friends with both Kyrie Irving and Coach Scott.
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

There have been other reports about Bynum wanting to play in cleveland. He's also friends with both Kyrie Irving and Coach Scott.

Man, who is Kyrie not friends with? I am now expecting to get a facebook friend request from him any day after I lit it up at Balkan Park two weeks ago :)
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

No, I wouldn't. :)

But would you take the immediate cash out option on the Ohio Lottery, or take the small annual payments? (at least it's a close comparison :chuckles:)

I can see an argument for wanting to be guaranteed a "max" 4 year deal now, instead of playing out this year hoping to go injury-free and not having any other set-backs happen. But like I said, if it were me, I'd wait until next year to sign the deal no matter what jersey I'm wearing this season.

it's a $60 million difference, not $40 million. An extend and trade is limited to 2 years after this season and at 4.5% raises. A contract with the team that has his bird rights is a new, 5 year contract with 7.5% raises. That's 3 years of guaranteed max salary Bynum would lose by agreeing to an extend and trade. Howard is in the same position, which is why he said he won't sign an extension as part of a trade. Too much money is at stake.
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

it's a $60 million difference, not $40 million. An extend and trade is limited to 2 years after this season and at 4.5% raises. A contract with the team that has his bird rights is a new, 5 year contract with 7.5% raises. That's 3 years of guaranteed max salary Bynum would lose by agreeing to an extend and trade. Howard is in the same position, which is why he said he won't sign an extension as part of a trade. Too much money is at stake.


Sorry, I am just entering this convo. Are you saying that if they say, each re-signed with their teams (Howard at Max with ORL and Bynum same for LAL) they'd get 20 million more?

Hate to ask someone to play with numbers but I don't know the CBA. I guess what would they be getting 1. Staying 2. Signing then trade now (or would it have to be Dec 15?) 3. Traded and re-signing as an UFA?
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

Everyone talking about OKC: Don't forget, OKC had the no. 2 and no. 5 pick in the 07 draft...then no. 4 in 08...then no. 3 and Ibaka in the 20s in 09...so it was essentially 4 high picks and 1 late pick in 3 drafts.

We've had 3 high picks and 1 late pick in 2 drafts. OKC traded Green for Perkins, a vital piece to them evolving into a contender, IMO. It's possible we draft a good/great player next year at a position we already have, such as PF...and it could maybe make someone like Tristan expendable for the SF we need. Just an idea.

I honestly hope we get one more high pick...top 5 next year, but it seems unlikely.

It would be nice id we got one more top five pick, but I only see that happening if Varejao is moved without taking back on immediate talent or he is injured. If we get Bynum, we'll be lucky to have a top 10 pick. If we do get Bynum, the tank is going to be put in storage for likely a long time because we'll have two all-stars on the team this coming season. Now that's something that is very exciting to think about. It's jist nerve-wrecking that there are so many things that could go wrong with the trade.
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

Interesting reading the LAL forum "clublakers". Surprisingly they are pretty knowledgeable. 50% frustration 25% Bynum wants to be here then a smattering of knowledgeable responses, complaints about Houston,etc.

Basically it seems the feeling there is that the Magic GM is the wrong man for the job, and that nomatter what Howard is coming to LAL whether this week or the deadline.
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

There have been other reports about Bynum wanting to play in cleveland. He's also friends with both Kyrie Irving and Coach Scott.

Cleveland is only listed as a potential destination because of the cap space we have. Bynum has given no indication to anyone that he wants to come play here. He has an acquaintance with Coach Scott because they both have ties with the Lakers Organization and you can pretty much assume that everyone in the league is friends with Kyrie Irving. IMHO it would be great to have a center of Bynum's calibur, but now is not the time. We are too early into the rebuild and have gaping holes within our roster that need to be filled. I think this year we make the playoffs without a Bynum. I truely believe Kyrie is that good. I think we do not give enough credit to Grant for his Waiters pick and I believe he will pan out to be a good sidekick for Kyrie. Making the playoffs with Kyrie and Dion will be what attracts players like Bynum to come play here. Giving up all our assets to aquire him without any idea whether he would stay after one year is suspect. Give it another year of the rebuild. It will give our young guys time to develop together and I think the Kyrie/Dion tandem is the most important aspect of the organization at the moment that needs attention.
 
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Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

Also a good point from one poster as to those frustrated and I would say the same to many here that want full tank to continue.



Re: D12 Trade (p.482: "Dwight is ready to join Lakers")

Postby The Rock on Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:21 am
A little history. It wasn't easy to get Shaq to LA. Jerry West went through so much ish to get it done, just like Mitch is trying right now. They have big aspirations and sometimes you gotta go through a ton of trouble to achieve them and guess what it paid off for Jerry West in the end, it brought us 3 rings. We didnt have 24/7 media coverage and internet updates back then otherwise we would've gone through the same thing

http://www.latimes.com/sports/laker...ring-shaquille-oneal-20120719,0,7758064.story

He labored all season to determine whether he could clear enough cap space to acquire Shaquille O'Neal. Finally, that moment came. West compared the experience to the birth of his children. Securing O'Neal to a seven-year, $120-million deal tilted the NBA's balance in the Lakers' favor. West envisioned O'Neal bringing two things that the Lakers value -- a Hollywood personality and NBA championships.

Yet West's perfectionist nature didn't allow him to fully enjoy the moment.

"When the fruition of it came, I was exhausted," West told The Times in the past year. "I had to go to the hospital. I don't sleep a lot anyway and have a very inquisitive mind. When you're like that, it creates more problems for you."

Discussion of West's efforts to help the Lakers secure O'Neal is timely. It's been 16 years since Shaq's arrival in L.A., a move that prompted The Times' headline "Lakers Hit the Shaqpot." The Lakers are now in talks to acquire Dwight Howard, another Orlando Magic center nicknamed "Superman." And both circumstances show how the sausage-making process of trade negotiations can be tiring.

That hardly deterred West from relentlessly pushing forward, thus setting up the Lakers to win three NBA championships.

"Working with Jerry Buss, he was so encouraging in the sense of 'Let's do something big,' " West said. "We were fortunately in the position to get ourselves in the Shaquille O'Neal derby. But a lot of things had to break right. And they did."

That required West to make some bold moves.

On June 26, draft day, the Lakers traded starting center Vlade Divac to Charlotte, a move that secured a player named Kobe Bryant and enough room to offer O'Neal a seven-year, $95-million offer. O'Neal recalled in his recent autobiography that he was ready to take the deal, but the Magic immediately topped the offer.

That didn't deter West. He persuaded the former Vancouver Grizzlies to take Anthony Peeler and George Lynch, enabling the Lakers to offer O'Neal a deal worth $120 million.

"If you're competitive and you want something, you're going to try to find a way to get it," West said. "You realize certain players can make a significant impact on your winning and losing."

But West believes another team planted the notion that the Lakers somehow tampered at some point during the O'Neal negotiations. West then became aware that the NBA was looking into that notion. That angered him so much that he skipped out on 1997 NBA All-Star weekend, though the event was to include West as one of the league's 50 greatest players.

Still, West expressed appreciation for Buss' giving him full support. "You cannot win without players," West said. "I don't care if it's Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, Red Auerbach, whoever. If you don't have players, you're not going to win. You might be better organized. You might be very competitive. But you're not going to win. It just doesn't happen that way. So you're always trying to attract the very best talent for Los Angeles."


So

1. This may be tiring. The more we here the CAVS the more we should be happy that they are working their asses off.

2. Winners win. They push forward despite the heart-burn. A la Napoleon Hill you don't stop a foot short of gold.

3. Eventually we need to have players to win. This trade would expedite that and make us a serious contender in coming years. You don't stubbornly refuse because you have a "plan" you gotta keep your ear to the grind-stone and sometimes take a big chance that offers big rewards. Will there be a better C than bynum out of the draft all around the next 5 or so years? Leave him and the core and we are relevant again.

I've had enough of "Don't trade Jarret Wright for Pedro"- "Don't trade Hickson for Amare". How bout we trade for a good possible great player, to add to a good possible great core. If it is Thompson or Andy that go? Well let's live with it and wish them luck.
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

Interesting reading the LAL forum "clublakers". Surprisingly they are pretty knowledgeable. 50% frustration 25% Bynum wants to be here then a smattering of knowledgeable responses, complaints about Houston,etc.

Basically it seems the feeling there is that the Magic GM is the wrong man for the job, and that nomatter what Howard is coming to LAL whether this week or the deadline.

To rehash a little from what I saw on Twitter from an Orlando Beat Writer. Apparently the Magic are holding out for the deal they want. They don't want to appear like they are taking back less talent than what they are giving up. So they want to trade Dwight for young players/draft picks and want to dump 1-2 bad contracts as well.

Orlando believes they have all the time in the world to get the deal they want.
 

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