Four Team Deal Sends Howard to Lakers

[sailfish]

Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

Well ..looks like for those who got emotional yesterday when i said the Cavs won't sign Bynum unless he signs a extension(I know all the stuff ABOUT WAITING a year for FA ,then get mo money)...the Cavs and Lakers want both players to agree long term..neither team wants either player to play a year then go elsewhere..if it were that simple,wouldn't something have been done already?

But Howard is a fickle person who would go to LA then say after a year he wants to go elsewhere..and this is exactly what I suspect with Bynum also..when you're dealing with inmature people money does not guarantee they will do the logical thing.

And posters need to stop trying to spout about how much money is being left on the table..fact is that can be made up several years down the road if said player can go where he WANTS to.
Neither one is wanting to commit and that is going to handcuff the deal..of course the other thing is ..I seriously doubt the Cavs are all in..and they shouldn't be ..not yet.
And then there's Houston..U guys getting your hopes up(not you Wuck...need to chill.

Agreed.
Glad there's a few voices of reason out there, other than myself & Jason Lloyd.
Everyone loves a big name and a star, but Bynum isn't really that, at least not yet. Let's not forget that this is a guy who has occasional bouts of immaturity and a pretty extensive injury history at the ripe age of 24/25.
Considering the risk involved for the Cavaliers, we're not going to want to give up enough to appease Orlando. That said, I don't see a deal happening.

Howard has put Orlando in a tough spot. No one is going to want to give up the compensation that Orlando will require, without at least some assurances that he will re-sign. The Brooklyn ship has sailed, at least until midseason, and LA doesn't have the assets, aside from Bynum, to trade for Howard. If Atlanta wasn't in the same division as Orlando, I think Howard would be headed there for Al Horford & picks. Ultimately, I think we might see a swap of Howard for Bynum, with LA taking back some bad contracts for shorter term ones.

 

[Green Lantern]

Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

Agreed.
Glad there's a few voices of reason out there, other than myself & Jason Lloyd.
Everyone loves a big name and a star, but Bynum isn't really that, at least not yet. Let's not forget that this is a guy who has occasional bouts of immaturity and a pretty extensive injury history at the ripe age of 24/25.
Considering the risk involved for the Cavaliers, we're not going to want to give up enough to appease Orlando. That said, I don't see a deal happening.

Howard has put Orlando in a tough spot. No one is going to want to give up the compensation that Orlando will require, without at least some assurances that he will re-sign. The Brooklyn ship has sailed, at least until midseason, and LA doesn't have the assets, aside from Bynum, to trade for Howard. If Atlanta wasn't in the same division as Orlando, I think Howard would be headed there for Al Horford & picks. Ultimately, I think we might see a swap of Howard for Bynum, with LA taking back some bad contracts for shorter term ones.

Like I said if it were that simple,why wouldn't Howard just say:"Hey I'll come play for LA and after the season I'll stay and resign with them???"
Now I read the Brooklyn said they were never trying to force DH to sign a extension?
If I were the commish,I'd make something happen..this is freaking soap opera with Howard..
As for Bynum,he may be the second best center but I'm standing on the stance that I don't trust him at his word..in fact until I see something in print coming from him and his agent that he welcomes a trade to Cleveland and wants to play ..then all this other stuff is lost on me.

 

[buzzdog]

Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

There's 2 possibilities that can happen here. Both are good for the Cavs.

1) the trade goes through and we end up with a tandem of Bynum/Kyrie/other young players, good for the Cavs.

2) the trade does not go through and we continue rebuilding through the draft as we have planned all along, good for the Cavs.

The only slight concern I would have is becoming a playoff team ahead of schedule if we do land Bynum, and missing out on the lottery pick in next year's draft. Next year's pick seems to be important to the Cavs front office and everything they've said indicates they haven't been expecting to have a good record in the coming season, they've been counting on being a player in the 2013 draft lottery. If we get Bynum does that plan get revised to try to sharpen the team into true playoff contenders 1-2 years sooner than expected?

 

[sailfish]

Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

Like I said if it were that simple,why wouldn't Howard just say:"Hey I'll come play for LA and after the season I'll stay and resign with them???"
Now I read the Brooklyn said they were never trying to force DH to sign a extension?
If I were the commish,I'd make something happen..this is freaking soap opera with Howard..
As for Bynum,he may be the second best center but I'm standing on the stance that I don't trust him at his word..in fact until I see something in print coming from him and his agent that he welcomes a trade to Cleveland and wants to play ..then all this other stuff is lost on me.

Allegedly Howard and/or his agent has communicated that he would re-sign with the Lakers after the season. I guess he was seen at a Dodgers game recently, so he might be checking out the area.
The problem, like I said, is LA doesn't have the pieces, aside from Bynum, or cap room to trade really appease Orlando is a 2 team trade. This is why they're having to 3rd party in Cleveland or Houston, who want Bynum in the deal. Orlando wants to keep Bynum for themselves, but have concerns about re-signing him, as do the Rockets & Cavaliers. Bynum is a bit aloof, so who knows what he might do.

 

[BooyaCS]

Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

There's 2 possibilities that can happen here. Both are good for the Cavs.

1) the trade goes through and we end up with a tandem of Bynum.Kyrie/other young players, good for the Cavs.

2) the trade does not go through and we continue rebuilding through the draft as we have planned all along, good for the Cavs.

The only slight concern I would have is becoming a playoff team ahead of schedule if we do land Bynum, and missing out on the lottery pick in next year's draft. Next year's pick seems to be important to the Cavs front office and everything they've said indicates they haven't been expecting to have a good record in the coming season, they've been counting on being a player in the 2013 draft lottery. If we get Bynum does that plan get revised to try to sharpen the team into true playoff contenders 1-2 years sooner than expected?

Again why do you want to constantly be in the lottery? We have 3 lottery players and 1 player taken in the teens. That is what OKC did (yes I know I am bringing this up). However if we look at a team like the Clippers, they were constantly in the lottery and didn't become good until they got Chris Paul.

Eventually you have to make that kind of move or instead of the mediocrity (ie 6-8 seeds in the playoffs) you are constantly stuck with bad teams in the top half of the draft.

 

[sailfish]

Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

There's 2 possibilities that can happen here. Both are good for the Cavs.

1) the trade goes through and we end up with a tandem of Bynum/Kyrie/other young players, good for the Cavs.

2) the trade does not go through and we continue rebuilding through the draft as we have planned all along, good for the Cavs.

The only slight concern I would have is becoming a playoff team ahead of schedule if we do land Bynum, and missing out on the lottery pick in next year's draft. Next year's pick seems to be important to the Cavs front office and everything they've said indicates they haven't been expecting to have a good record in the coming season, they've been counting on being a player in the 2013 draft lottery. If we get Bynum does that plan get revised to try to sharpen the team into true playoff contenders 1-2 years sooner than expected?

You're not even considering the two worst case scenarios, which are:

1. We give up some good assets for Bynum and he chooses to sign elsewhere next summer. In that case we lose the assets AND Bynum, which could cripple this franchise.
2. We give up some good assets for Bynum, we re-sign him to a max deal, and he continues to have the injury problems that he had in LA. In that case, we have nothing to show for a max contract player.

 

[KeyzerSozee]

Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

Again why do you want to constantly be in the lottery? We have 3 lottery players and 1 player taken in the teens. That is what OKC did (yes I know I am bringing this up). However if we look at a team like the Clippers, they were constantly in the lottery and didn't become good until they got Chris Paul.

Eventually you have to make that kind of move or instead of the mediocrity (ie 6-8 seeds in the playoffs) you are constantly stuck with bad teams in the top half of the draft.

Absolutely agree. OKC was the most successful rebuild through the lottery. And it was basically 4 picks. Eventually they started signing guys to fill in. Granted, they did not sign say Durant (as Bynum would be expected to contribute big time), but I agree. They took 4 years. Depending how you count we are on 2 or 3. If he was 33 I'd get. But this is a young guy. A really really talented young guy, that wants to play for us.

And I disagree. You can take the trade with his agent saying he'll sign long-term. No one would back out on that unless the Cavs low-balled him. He would get eviscerated.

I am tired of "keep tanking". I want to see some wins. We don't have to have the 1 overall pick every year. Who cares if this makes us an 8 seed on a team with an average age of like 22. The next are all leaps up. The only possible issue anyone could have is Bynum's price/injuries. Other than that, I'll throw back at all of you wanting to tank the "treadmill of mediocrity". Or Thread-mill for that matter. Eventually Gilbert, the players, Scott, Me, and even all of you want wins. I would have to think this would be the anti-Amare Safari. Getting a guy starting to "get it" on a team that'll make him work. And who to me has best all-around C in the league written all over him.

My biggest questions are ppl on the WC that watch, he does seem "injury prone" (unlike Kyrie).

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

I get the sense that some people are desperate to trade for Bynum. Quite frankly, I don't get it. The rebuild is coming along nicely and we should continue to build the team, as we have been. If we have an opportunity to acquire a young, potential star long-term, without stripping this team of assets, then we should look into it. Otherwise, stay the course.

Despite what he or his agent might say publicly or behind the scenes, there's no way we can pin him down without getting him to extend his deal, which he isn't going to do. That said, Bynum leaving after a year is a risk that we would take, if we were to acquire him. Again, that's a risk I only consider if the price is right. I have a really hard time believing that Orlando would take back just AV, picks, & some ending contracts in this deal. Why would they have interest in a 30 year old big, who doesn't seem to fit in with their rebuild? The more I think about it, the more I think there's no way this deal happens.

It shouldn't be a surprise. It is so difficult to acquire top level NBA talent for a team like Cleveland that it is tough to pass up any opportunity that presents itself. Staying the course could easily mean improving to the point that the team can't draft any more superstars from the middle of round 1. At that point it will just be a treadmill until Kyrie looks to move on. Most well-run teams still end up topping out at an Indiana or Atlanta level because they were not lucky enough to get a Kobe, Durant or LeBron when they were down. While Bynum is not at that level, getting Bynum long-term could result in a team getting close to the top tier teams very soon and providing the incentive for Kyrie to stay long term. And if he insists on leaving after next year, the team could still do a sign and trade to recoup a portion of the value they surrender. While there is danger, it seems like a risk they need to consider if they have any realistic belief that he will stay.

 

[BooyaCS]

Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

Absolutely agree. OKC was the most successful rebuild through the lottery. And it was basically 4 picks. Eventually they started signing guys to fill in. Granted, they did not sign say Durant (as Bynum would be expected to contribute big time), but I agree. They took 4 years. Depending how you count we are on 2 or 3. If he was 33 I'd get. But this is a young guy. A really really talented young guy, that wants to play for us.

And I disagree. You can take the trade with his agent saying he'll sign long-term. No one would back out on that unless the Cavs low-balled him. He would get eviscerated.

I am tired of "keep tanking". I want to see some wins. We don't have to have the 1 overall pick every year. Who cares if this makes us an 8 seed on a team with an average age of like 22. The next are all leaps up. The only possible issue anyone could have is Bynum's price/injuries. Other than that, I'll throw back at all of you wanting to tank the "treadmill of mediocrity". Or Thread-mill for that matter. Eventually Gilbert, the players, Scott, Me, and even all of you want wins. I would have to think this would be the anti-Amare Safari. Getting a guy starting to "get it" on a team that'll make him work. And who to me has best all-around C in the league written all over him.

My biggest questions are ppl on the WC that watch, he does seem "injury prone" (unlike Kyrie).

It took them 4 years over 3 drafts.

Durant (2nd overall)
Hardin (4th overall)
Westbrook (4th overall)
Ibaka (20s)

We had the same number of picks but in 2 drafts instead of 3.
Irving (1st overall)
TT (4th overall)
Waiters (4th)
Zeller (17)

 

[jhollandsworth]

Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

I get the sense that some people are desperate to trade for Bynum. Quite frankly, I don't get it. The rebuild is coming along nicely and we should continue to build the team, as we have been. If we have an opportunity to acquire a young, potential star long-term, without stripping this team of assets, then we should look into it. Otherwise, stay the course.

Despite what he or his agent might say publicly or behind the scenes, there's no way we can pin him down without getting him to extend his deal, which he isn't going to do. That said, Bynum leaving after a year is a risk that we would take, if we were to acquire him. Again, that's a risk I only consider if the price is right. I have a really hard time believing that Orlando would take back just AV, picks, & some ending contracts in this deal. Why would they have interest in a 30 year old big, who doesn't seem to fit in with their rebuild? The more I think about it, the more I think there's no way this deal happens.

There's 2 possibilities that can happen here. Both are good for the Cavs.

1) the trade goes through and we end up with a tandem of Bynum/Kyrie/other young players, good for the Cavs.

2) the trade does not go through and we continue rebuilding through the draft as we have planned all along, good for the Cavs.

The only slight concern I would have is becoming a playoff team ahead of schedule if we do land Bynum, and missing out on the lottery pick in next year's draft. Next year's pick seems to be important to the Cavs front office and everything they've said indicates they haven't been expecting to have a good record in the coming season, they've been counting on being a player in the 2013 draft lottery. If we get Bynum does that plan get revised to try to sharpen the team into true playoff contenders 1-2 years sooner than expected?

Bynum would essentially become next year's draft pick. And he's an already established, premier center. The point of trading for Bynum would specifically be to speed up the rebuild process. Given how top-heavy the East is right now, with Bynum, the Cavs could potentially sneak into the playoffs this year and be a very strong team in 2013-2014 and could be a premier East team / title contender in 2014-2015. If you take Bynum out of the equation, you push things back at least one year and subsequent years will likely be slightly worse unless they hit a home run in the draft. In other words, my opinion is that Bynum is probable to be a better player than anyone you're going to draft next year.

Since Bynum will get more money if he doesn't sign right now, is it legal for the Cavs to attach provisions to any picks they send Orlando? For example, ist it possible if the Cavs send a 2014 1st round unprotected to Orlando, can that the pick becomes either lotter or top 10 protected if Bynum does not re-up with the Cavs in 2013?

 

[DJTJ]

Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

It took them 4 years over 3 drafts.

Durant (2nd overall)
Hardin (4th overall)
Westbrook (4th overall)
Ibaka (20s)

We had the same number of picks but in 2 drafts instead of 3.
Irving (1st overall)
TT (4th overall)
Waiters (4th)
Zeller (17)

Presti also wiffed on Jeff Green.

 

[jhollandsworth]

Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

I also can't blame the Cavs if they are timid with the deal. Out of the three teams involved, Cleveland is the only one who doesn't need to make a move.

Orlando needs to get something for Howard other than a sign-and-trade package like the Cavs and Raptors got from Miami or Phoenix got from LAL where the draft picks are going to be late first rounders. The longer DH stays on the team, the worse the offers are going to become. That said, it doesn't really matter if Orlando makes this deal tomorrow or a day before training camp starts. Once that starts, I think they'll be under a lot more pressure to get something done.

The Lakers should want to have Howard on their team as soon as possible so they can go in to camp with their big four in tow. I'm sure LA can wait until later in the season, but getting Howard at the trading deadline is not an optimal outcome for them.

 

[BooyaCS]

Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

Presti also wiffed on Jeff Green.

Doesn't matter though. Every GM wiffs. It is part of the job. The point is the 4 main players for OKC were acquired in 3 drafts using 4 picks. We had 4 picks in 2 drafts and now it is time to use some of those additional picks (in other drafts) for another star while these players develop.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

Everyone talking about OKC: Don't forget, OKC had the no. 2 and no. 5 pick in the 07 draft...then no. 4 in 08...then no. 3 and Ibaka in the 20s in 09...so it was essentially 4 high picks and 1 late pick in 3 drafts.

We've had 3 high picks and 1 late pick in 2 drafts. OKC traded Green for Perkins, a vital piece to them evolving into a contender, IMO. It's possible we draft a good/great player next year at a position we already have, such as PF...and it could maybe make someone like Tristan expendable for the SF we need. Just an idea.

I honestly hope we get one more high pick...top 5 next year, but it seems unlikely.

 

[ericerau]

Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

If we don't make a deal on Bynum's word (assuming he gives it and discussions progress), then how do we ever plan to make one? His word is the best shot we have at this point, as he's likely going to want bird-max money next season, and will have to declare free agency in order for that to happen. Not sure what other options we have at this point aside from backing out of the talks completely. If we feel we're attractive enough to ensure that Bynum extends next offseason, there shouldn't be anything holding us back from trying to make this work.

There's too much money and assets involved to hope we can resign Bynum after next year. His word and feelings are worth absolutely nothing. If he says he wants to be a Cav, why not sign an extension. In summary, money talks and bullshit walks.