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Four Team Deal Sends Howard to Lakers

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Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

KeyzerSozee said:
I think that was what I said. Except I meant that you can either view it as the rebuilding began a year after Lebron left (as OKC's began immediately) or that year so 2-3.

Also a good way to put it in perspective:
http://82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

Values a spot, using all picks over the last 20 years.


NOTE: (I am not saying that is the likelihood I am saying this is what in any given draft the analysis says- like interesting anomally about 3 being better than 1- makes some sense as you'd think if drafted at 3 you aren't going to say the clippers pre CP3 and can develop)

OKC DRAFT CORE
Pick Value Potential
2 21.6 60% Star
3 26 85% Star
4 22.2 60% Star
24 13 15% Star

AVG
OKC 20.7 3/4 you have over 50% Star

CAVS DRAFT CORE
Pick Value %
1 27 70
4 22.2 60
4 22.2 60
17 11.7 20
AVG
CAVS 20.77 Again Same as above


In other words. Without naming players. Given those two draft orderings 3 players on each of OKC and CLE have over a 50% chance of being a "star". CLE and OKC in those 4 picks are equal for value at 20.7.

I realize this is where numbers can deceive but it is a bit eery how similar the picks/values are.
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That's very interesting. If you look at the information, obviously the 1st pick is the best. Then there's a notable dropoff exactly after five and again after 10. It really makes three neat tiers. Tier 1 is the 1st pick. Tier 2 is 2-5. Tier 3 is 6-10. It just goes to show the importance of draft positioning. That's not to say that good drafting regardless of the position isn't important, but this data just goes to show that you can't draft the stars if they're already taken. It also makes sense that, after you are projected to start drafting outside of the top ten that you start trading for your stars because your chances of drafting them significantly decrease. Hence the Bynum trade at leasy in theory snd why it makes sense.
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

Rondo said:
Cleveland is only listed as a potential destination because of the cap space we have. Bynum has given no indication to anyone that he wants to come play here. He has an acquaintance with Coach Scott because they both have ties with the Lakers Organization and you can pretty much assume that everyone in the league is friends with Kyrie Irving. IMHO it would be great to have a center of Bynum's calibur, but now is not the time. We are too early into the rebuild and have gaping holes within our roster that need to be filled. I think this year we make the playoffs without a Bynum. I truely believe Kyrie is that good. I think we do not give enough credit to Grant for his Waiters pick and I believe he will pan out to be a good sidekick for Kyrie. Making the playoffs with Kyrie and Dion will be what attracts players like Bynum to come play here. Giving up all our assets to aquire him without any idea whether he would stay after one year is suspect. Give it another year of the rebuild. It will give our young guys time to develop together and I think the Kyrie/Dion tantem is the most important aspect of the organization at the moment that needs attention.
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How many opportunities do you think we'll have to trade for a top 5 player at their position as they're entering their prime? Opportunities to acquire players of this caliber don't come up every year, especially for small market teams like Cleveland.
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

Sam The Bullshit Whisperer ‏@SamAmicoFSO

Sides still "far apart" in potential Lakers-Cavs-Magic trade, but not deterred by recent comments from agents

So you are saying there is a chance?
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

guitarlifter said:
That's very interesting. If you look at the information, obviously the 1st pick is the best. Then there's a notable dropoff exactly after five and again after 10. It really makes three neat tiers. Tier 1 is the 1st pick. Tier 2 is 2-5. Tier 3 is 6-10. It just goes to show the importance of draft positioning. That's not to say that good drafting regardless of the position isn't important, but this data just goes to show that you can't draft the stars if they're already taken. It also makes sense that, after you are projected to start drafting outside of the top ten that you start trading for your stars because your chances of drafting them significantly decrease. Hence the Bynum trade at leasy in theory snd why it makes sense.
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Excellent analysis. I saw something similar in that considering it is over twenty years there are some obvious and strange trends.

Also if you look further down- youll see the 17 is less successful than the 24. Again, I'd say attributable to at that point you have a good org/FO in charge. Such that even the best teams have 1 great scouting 2 who you play with matters a lot to that 7th or 8th tier.

But I completely follow and agree. That is we are going to be outside of the important tiers w/o bynum. We'll be getting better and the likelihood is a Rotational Player depending how much better.
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

BooyaCS said:
Decent article on the situation except it is from the Bleacher Report so take it with a grain of salt.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...m_campaign=br_orlmagic&utm_source=twitter.com

Very telling quote from the article.
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True. I think the guy doesn't want to be the one who shipped of Howard and got back ___. When in reality waiting is only going to lessen his hand.

I guess the Bleacher Report can put together a logical sentence every once in awhile :chuckles:
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

Houston's "proposed" trade is absolutely laughable.

If that was actually on the table, Orlando would have done it on draft day.

So Orlando is turning down what amounts to (5) #1 picks? Really?

Jeremy Lamb, Terrence Jones, Royce White, Toronto's draft pick 4-14th, Houston's draft pick

PLUS Chandler Parsons, Donatas Motienjunas and a near 20ppg career scorer in Kevin Martin?

You would literally have to be brain dead to pass on such a trade or for that matter, offer it up. I cannot see a scenario where Houston is this desperate or that Orlando is dumb enough not to take it. It makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever.
 
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Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

elektrikq said:
How many opportunities do you think we'll have to trade for a top 5 player at their position as they're entering their prime? Opportunities to acquire players of this caliber don't come up every year, especially for small market teams like Cleveland.
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True, but then you risk all the assets that we have gathered over the past 3-4 years to watch him walk in free agency. If he wants to play here, convince him when hes a free agent. Stars want to be in a winning culture and if we show that we can provide that we will be a much more attractive organization. If we have 2 stars in KI and D.Waiters, players will want to play here because they know they can get paid and we could potentally become a dynasty. We will get the players we want and still have a ton of flexibility. Grant has a plan, and he will not jeopardize it on a gamble like this trade (unless an extension is somehow promised, then I'm all for it). At least I hope not.
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

Even if this trade happens (unlikely) I'm still gonna be pissed at Orlando for taking this long lol.
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

Rondo said:
True, but then you risk all the assets that we have gathered over the past 3-4 years to watch him walk in free agency. If he wants to play here, convince him when hes a free agent. Stars want to be in a winning culture and if we show that we can provide that we will be a much more attractive organization. If we have 2 stars in KI and D.Waiters, players will want to play here because they know they can get paid and we could potentally become a dynasty. Grant has a plan, and he will not jeopardize it on a gamble like this trade. At least I hope not.
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Doesn't that lessen what we could pay him? Also, what are the odds that you "lure" bynum from LAL when it's clear he's going to be the next face of the NBA's most important franchise in a few years?

And to the extent we gathered Assets to acquire a player. That is what we are doing? Unless you mean our young guys, but I really doubt Grant gives up well, he can't give up anyone but Thompson?
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

ImWithDan said:
Houston's "proposed" trade is absolutely laughable.

If that was actually on the table, Orlando would have done it on draft day.

So Orlando is turning down what amounts to (5) #1 picks? Really?

Jeremy Lamb, Terrence Jones, Royce White, Toronto's draft pick 4-14th, Houston's draft pick

PLUS Chandler Parsons, Donatas Motienjunas and a near 20ppg career scorer in Kevin Martin?

You would literally have to be brain dead to pass on such a trade or for that matter, offer it up. I cannot see a scenario where Houston is this desperate or that Orlando is dumb enough not to take it. It makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever.
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Not to sound like a broken record, but I completely agree.

There is no WAY that Houston's offer is that good, because Orlando's entire front office should be fired and given a lifetime basketball ban for not taking that offer immediately.

Somehow this Rockets offer is getting blown way out of proportion.
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

KeyzerSozee said:
Sorry, I am just entering this convo. Are you saying that if they say, each re-signed with their teams (Howard at Max with ORL and Bynum same for LAL) they'd get 20 million more?

Hate to ask someone to play with numbers but I don't know the CBA. I guess what would they be getting 1. Staying 2. Signing then trade now (or would it have to be Dec 15?) 3. Traded and re-signing as an UFA?
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if they don't sign an extension
- whatever team they finish the season with can sign them to a 5 year deal with 7.5% raises, that team doesn't have to have cap space
- any other team has to have cap space (or get him via a sign and trade) and the contract is limited to 4 years and 4.5% raises

if they do sign an extension, there are 3 possible cases
- sign an extension with their current team which adds 3 years and 7.5% raises, but they then can't be traded for 6 months
- an extend and trade, adds 2 years and 4.5% raises
- traded without an extension, can't sign an extension for 6 months, but then can add 3 years at 7.5% raises.

Note that the limits on extensions are different for players still under their rookie scale contracts, which isn't the case here.

So unless they have a career ending or limiting injury this year, their best case financially is to play out their contract and sign a new 5 year deal with their new team (assuming a trade) this summer.
 
Re: Three-Way ORL/LAL/Cavs Rumor

theSTEREO. said:
Not to sound like a broken record, but I completely agree.

There is no WAY that Houston's offer is that good, because Orlando's entire front office should be fired and given a lifetime basketball ban for not taking that offer immediately.

Somehow this Rockets offer is getting blown way out of proportion.
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I don't think that was offered I think that is what Orlando wants. In addition they may want Houston to take back Hedo or J. Richardson or both.
 
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