Connecticut School Shooting

Good luck inflicting the same amount of damage with a baseball bat.

If your actually going to pretend guns have the same stopping power as baseball bats, then you're probably the last person who should own a gun.

Rich said:

Have you ever looked at the crime statistics of Japan. Low...for a long, long, long time. That's a cultural difference that has existed for for many decades, if not centuries.

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This a million times over. There's a huge cultural difference between Japan and the US that allows for laws like Japan have to work. Being that we live in a country who's culture is defined not by what people say or do, but by what the TV tells us to say or do is part of the problem. The US as a country has went further and further away from a civilized society. What happened to work ethic, compassion, respect? They sure as hell aren't prevalent in the US. But alas, we live in a country where everyone expects shit handed to them, where "everyone is special" blah blah blah. I mean hell, we have an entire generation of kids that do stupid crap, and scream "YOLO" because that's an acceptable excuse to do whatever the hell you want.

Horrible horrible tragedy regardless of how you look at it. But no change in gun laws is going to prevent anything. As for the guns in school, not a fan at all.

At the very least, the high school I graduated from has been locking up the doors during the day for going on 10 years now. Students enter, doors all lock at XXX time, anyone that needs to enter the building has to be buzzed in. And this is just a podunk public school in the middle of nowhere Ohio. Worst thing this town sees is a murder once every 7-10 years. I really don't see why it should be that hard to institute anywhere else in the country.

Backstage said:

God damnit.

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I'm just saying, America will never be like Japan, even if we outlawed guns. If you think we can become like Japan, I ask you to be realistic. If you desire to live in a place like that, your only real option is to move there because we will never be a culture like that.

https://twitter.com/MargieJPhelps

Knew it wouldn't be long until those homophobes in the WBC would shamelessly latch onto this for notoriety. I almost hope they show up, because I guarantee they will not leave that place alive if they do.

The Man Called X said:

This a million times over. There's a huge cultural difference between Japan and the US that allows for laws like Japan have to work. Being that we live in a country who's culture is defined not by what people say or do, but by what the TV tells us to say or do is part of the problem. The US as a country has went further and further away from a civilized society. What happened to work ethic, compassion, respect? They sure as hell aren't prevalent in the US. But alas, we live in a country where everyone expects shit handed to them, where "everyone is special" blah blah blah. I mean hell, we have an entire generation of kids that do stupid crap, and scream "YOLO" because that's an acceptable excuse to do whatever the hell you want.

Horrible horrible tragedy regardless of how you look at it. But no change in gun laws is going to prevent anything. As for the guns in school, not a fan at all.

At the very least, the high school I graduated from has been locking up the doors during the day for going on 10 years now. Students enter, doors all lock at XXX time, anyone that needs to enter the building has to be buzzed in. And this is just a podunk public school in the middle of nowhere Ohio. Worst thing this town sees is a murder once every 7-10 years. I really don't see why it should be that hard to institute anywhere else in the country.

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Holy Shit! haven't seen you in a while. Welcome back X.

Only issue is, the school in Connecticut was similarly locked down, yet the intruder found a way and broke into the school. I understand that you don't want guns in the school, but I don't see how anyone could be against an armed guard in all schools acting as the first responder to an incident like this.

Frank Reynolds said:

I'm just saying, America will never be like Japan, even if we outlawed guns. If you think we can become like Japan, I ask you to be realistic. If you desire to live in a place like that, your only real option is to move there because we will never be a culture like that.

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The "God damnit" stems from three things:

1. If you read earlier, you'll notice that I loathe the last word of "well, if you don't like it, then get out of here!" in an argument. Moving because of one issue is as irrational as the idea of being able to get rid of guns entirely.

2. You said there was no point in arguing about guns, and yet you stick around doing just that. Can't have it both ways.

3. You're/Your. I don't want to be that guy, but...yeah, I'm that guy.

I can't believe there are people out there that think that outlawing something will make it go completely away.

How'd that whole prohibition thing work out? Now excuse me while I go smoke a bowl.

Backstage said:

The "God damnit" stems from three things:

1. If you read earlier, you'll notice that I loathe the last word of "well, if you don't like it, then get out of here!" in an argument. Moving because of one issue is as irrational as the idea of being able to get rid of guns entirely.

2. You said there was no point in arguing about guns, and yet you stick around doing just that. Can't have it both ways.

3. You're/Your. I don't want to be that guy, but...yeah, I'm that guy.

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1. I don't know what else to say. America will never be like Japan. If that's what you desire, don't try to change America, that's impossible. Your best bet is to remove yourself.

2. There's no point in arguing about guns because they are our constitutional right. They are not going anywhere. You can make them harder to attain, but where there's a will there's a way. Criminals will find ways to get guns, you cannot get rid of all guns in existence, simply impossible. Violence can't be solved either. Go ahead, outlaw guns, but some kid can go to Home Depot and get some fertilizer and gasoline and make a bomb big enough to level the entire school building. There is no sense in policing the issue of guns.

3. FIXED.

Frank Reynolds said:

2. There's no point in arguing about guns because they are our constitutional right. They are not going anywhere. You can make them harder to attain, but where there's a will there's a way. Criminals will find ways to get guns, you cannot get rid of all guns in existence, simply impossible. Violence can't be solved either. Go ahead, outlaw guns, but some kid can go to Home Depot and get some fertilizer and gasoline and make a bomb big enough to level the entire school building. There is no sense in policing the issue of guns.

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You do realize that the constitution can be amended, yes? I'm no scientist, but I believe they even call them amendments when we do that.

And really, we need to stop pretending that everything in the constitution is perfectly applicable today. Most of it was written an extremely long time again when the world was an extremely different place. I touched on this in the gun control topic, so I won't get into it here, but how many would protest if the government decided to take out the bit about harboring soldiers? I wouldn't, because that's not something any of us has to worry about in this day and age.

Again..... There's no point in arguing about guns because they are our constitutional right. They are not going anywhere. You can make them harder to attain, but where there's a will there's a way. Criminals will find ways to get guns, you cannot get rid of all guns in existence, simply impossible. Violence can't be solved either. Go ahead, outlaw guns, but some kid can go to Home Depot and get some fertilizer and gasoline and make a bomb big enough to level the entire school building. There is no sense in policing the issue of guns.

If I want to set you on fire, anyone can go to CVS and buy a bottle of isoproply alcohol, dump it into a glass bottle, put a rag in the end and make a molotov cocktail. I could make a shank out of a railroad spike and stab someone with it.

I could take bleach and vinegar and put it in a super soaker and spray you with it, and you would die from suffocation.

I could plant a bomb under your car..... etc etc.

People will find any number of ways to be violent, if they are so inclined. Just by outlawing guns, it won't necessarily stop people from inflicting mass harm if they are set on doing so. They will simply find other ways.


What we need to be focused on is physically stopping these attacks as soon as possible before they get out of control and a kid can fire off 200 rounds into his peers

Frank Reynolds said:

1. I don't know what else to say. America will never be like Japan. If that's what you desire, don't try to change America, that's impossible. Your best bet is to remove yourself.

2. There's no point in arguing about guns because they are our constitutional right. They are not going anywhere. You can make them harder to attain, but where there's a will there's a way. Criminals will find ways to get guns, you cannot get rid of all guns in existence, simply impossible. Violence can't be solved either. Go ahead, outlaw guns, but some kid can go to Home Depot and get some fertilizer and gasoline and make a bomb big enough to level the entire school building. There is no sense in policing the issue of guns.

3. FIXED.

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Why do you speak in absolutes? You act like there's no point in even attempting to solve an issue unless you can completely wipe out the problem. Do you not take any medicine when you're sick just to alleviate the symptoms until you can get over it?

No, I'm not saying that there's a cure for all of this nonsense going on, and I already stated that I'm not a huge fan of politics, but I do enjoy discussion.

Claiming your stance, living in black and white, and putting your foot down while plugging your ears is not discussion.

Jack Brickman said:

You do realize that the constitution can be amended, yes? I'm no scientist, but I believe they even call them amendments when we do that.

And really, we need to stop pretending that everything in the constitution is perfectly applicable today. Most of it was written an extremely long time again when the world was an extremely different place. I touched on this in the gun control topic, so I won't get into it here, but how many would protest if the government decided to take out the bit about harboring soldiers? I wouldn't, because that's not something any of us has to worry about in this day and age.

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Fair enough Jack, but they could also amend the constitution so that women and mentally handicapped people are unable to vote. No politician is that dumb though. Say that you want to outlaw guns, and you commit political suicide.

Your point is fair, but far fetched, it simply will not happen. Even if they do outlaw guns, do you think every gun owned by civilians will be surrendered back to the authorities? Your grasping at straws, simply not reasonable. In a utopian place, yes. I wish it were that easy.

What about all the hunters that hunt for food? You are going to deny them their right to hunt?

Never going to happen.

Backstage said:

Why do you speak in absolutes? You act like there's no point in even attempting to solve an issue unless you can completely wipe out the problem. Do you not take any medicine when you're sick just to alleviate the symptoms until you can get over it?

No, I'm not saying that there's a cure for all of this nonsense going on, and I already stated that I'm not a huge fan of politics, but I do enjoy discussion.

Claiming your stance, living in black and white, and putting your foot down while plugging your ears is not discussion.

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Because I am for doing things that are black and white effective in saving peoples lives. There is no room for grey area when lives are on the line, as I said before people intent on hurting others will find a way to inflict mass damage.

Your ideas may or may not work. But that's not good enough for me. My ideas are more concrete, like using taxpayer money to pay for a heavily armed guard in all schools. I would rather have a solution like that, where there is someone trained and armed there who could intervene, should a tragedy like this unfold.

Maybe the gunman kills the heavily armed guard. Definitely a possibility, but I like my odds better than trying to make weapons less accessible and crossing your fingers praying that the kid can't find one.

Getting rid of guns and making them harder to acquire, I'm just not sold on that being as effective of a deterrent than having something concrete, like a trained guard in schools, there to be the first responder.

By making guns harder to acquire, it's still too grey of an answer for me. Criminals will still find a way to attain or craft their own weapons if they so desire. By actually having someone there to intervene, I'll live with those odds.

I'm not trying to close my ears, I'm just trying to be a voice of reason. I want concrete steps taken to protect these children.

I have been firing guns since I was 8 years old. I have been raised around guns, and have a true respect for their power, as well as what it takes to safely own one. Guns are not the problem. The problem is people not coming up with good enough solutions and politics getting in the way of taking the true steps necessary to make schools safer.

Frank Reynolds said:

Fair enough Jack, but they could also amend the constitution so that women and mentally handicapped people are unable to vote. No politician is that dumb though. Say that you want to outlaw guns, and you commit political suicide.

Your point is fair, but far fetched, it simply will not happen. Even if they do outlaw guns, do you think every gun owned by civilians will be surrendered back to the authorities? Your grasping at straws, simply not reasonable.

What about all the hunters that hunt for food? You are going to deny them their right to hunt?

Never going to happen.

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1. I never mentioned banning guns. I simply said that the constitution was literally designed so that it could be amended because the people that created our government were smart enough to realize that a bunch of rules written on a piece of paper in 1787 may not properly reflect how society has changed 200 years later. Those rules weren't written as absolutes. They were written as a by-product of the time they were written, and the system was set up so that they could later be changed.

2. I do agree that, if they did ban guns, not every citizen would turn them in. That's not really an argument for not banning guns, though. That's like saying murder might as well be legal because not everyone is going to obey the law and not commit it.

3. Hunters can hunt with a bow and arrow. The human species made do for thousands of years that way. Hell, I'd argue that it's a lot more honorable to kill an animal with a weapon that requires a lot of skill and stealth than it is to plug it with a rifle from half a mile away.

4. And honestly, how many people in this country hunt as a primary source of food? Literally everyone I know or have known that hunts does it either as a hobby or an excuse to go drink beer with some friends in the woods. If they end up with a month's supply of deer jerky as a result, bonus.

KI4MVP said:

and I said this tragedy perhaps could have been averted had his mom done the same. I also showed in the other thread how Japan requires this kind of gun safety. Instead of agreeing with me that something like this could help, you told me to move to Japan.

I don't want to move to Japan, I do want my daughter, who loves school, to feel safe actually going to school.

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How do you know the guns weren't locked up? You've already jumped the gun once by making a thread suggesting that requiring a mental health evaluation would somehow prevent events like these. Now we know it was the school teachers guns which completely makes that argument irrelevant.

So even if the guns weren't locked away it is clearly a matter of personal responsibility. What, are you suggesting the gun police go around to make sure all guns are locked away properly?

The fact of the matter is, guns are as easy to obtain through the black market as they are to purchase legally. If you start tightening up gun control purchases you are going to increase the legal sale of guns because people will stock up in droves therefore flooding the market of arms which will inevitably lead to more black market purchases. It's a lose/lose. It's like saying you want to put out a fire with gasoline.