The fiscal cliff

BigMar Lion said:

I went to a gas station around my town (BP) that used to do cash back and they no longer do it according to the clerk.

I also went to a local CVS and was told I could only get $35 back. I'm fairly certain I have seen the option to get more back when I've used their service in past years.

Jack...it's day 2. You are going to notice a lot of things once they start to position themselves right in front of our faces. Right now...everything is behind closed doors.








Here's another thing to look at....start looking at food items and drinks you've always purchased in the past. I can gaurantee you it will be easy to find a product you have been purchasing for awhile and realize that they have cut ingredients based on cost or other (i.e. see sugar, powerade has cut their sugar calories about 40 per serving).

Did anybody hear about how Dr. Pepper and others are really pushing this 10 calorie crap that has "just enough sugar" to keep you goin? Do you really think it's because people are becoming health conscience??? lol

People started cutting costs years ago....it's going to get a lot deeper.

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This has to do with Dodd/Frank and banking fee's, not the value of the American Dollar.

Maximus said:

me: "The other day you were telling me to watch 'Homeland" and 'Dexter'....how much are you paying a month for those premium channels? Every day you come to work with giant cups of whatever from Starbucks. The crazy thing is that we have a Keurig coffee maker here with unlimited free coffee in a variety of flavors. How much a month do you spend on Starbucks? You have a subscription to Entertainment Weekly that gets delivered to the office...how much does that cost? See what I mean? You have be honest with yourself and figure out what are needs and what are wants. Cut away the wants."
girl: "I'll try....but if there's anything you can do I'd really appreciate it."
me: "uhhhh-ok"

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As an HR professional, you'd be subject to suspension in my workplace.

As managers, we have responsibilities to be coaches and mentors for our employees professionally. It helps them look at us as help rather than look at us in fear. Where we're supposed to draw the line is with personal matters. We're not even supposed to speak on personal matters if asked or approached. For you to tell someone how to use their paycheck, IMO, is inappropriate. You do not know enough about her personal life to make assumptions about whether or not she has Showtime or is at a friend's house or whether or not she has a boyfriend who gets her Starbucks, etc.

I know I'll get the "enjoy candyland you hippie liberal", but that is just arrogant. Personal info is not ours to make assumptions on, let alone comment on and brag about later. If she can't cut it with her pay, everything will take care of itself.

Average price of gas in 2008 - $3.25
Average price of gas in 2012 - $3.60

Source AAA

The difference isoughly what you would expect from inflation.

For comparison

Down Jones Average the day Bush took office in 2001: 10,588
Down Jones Average the day Bush left office in 2009: 7,949
Down Jones Average today: 13,412

the shape of the oil price chart and the DOW chart over that period are virtually identical.

I don't intend to represent a case for either side, but aren't oil/gas prices controlled by an oligopoly? I mean, the majority of those oil tycoons are conservatives...

Isn't it possible that all of these gas prices have been strategically raised (ala our whole life) by those in charge of the price? Now they have every conservative honk crying that Obama failed them and its working. I do understand that it is a position that many liberals don't find themselves in, but I just think that it is awfully convenient that a group of conservatives control the price of gas, which is a huge hot button issue that determines the success of the President. Perhaps the reason Obama is trying to push green tech... Just a thought.. :tomato:

Maximus said:

So my office manager just shot this email around my office...



5mins later office girl walks into talk to office manager...

girl: "how much is this going to be?"
office manager: "about $50 per check"
girl: "i'm already living paycheck to paycheck"
office manager: "a lot of us are..."

girl then walks in to talk to one of my partners and i...borderline crying(maybe faking).

girl: "i asked for a raise last month because i'm having trouble making ends meet. you said "no". Now i'm getting an email saying effective immediately i'm going to make $1000 less this year. can't you guys do something to offset this?"
me: "the other two owners and i stopped taking paychecks and raided our 401K's to keep everyone here employed and to get us through the crash."
girl: "i know this, but we had a really great year last year."
me: "didn't you see the millions in cancellation we got in the weeks following the election?"
girl: "i did, but...but I can't afford to give up another $100 a month....my cost of living is going up and up...i need more not less".
me: "I feel your pain. Gas prices have doubled since Obama took office and declared war on domestic coal and oil. As soon as Obamacare got passed, our insurance costs went up over 25% each of the next two years."
girl: "this sucks..."
me: "At the risk of making you more upset, it's only the beginning...I'm sorry. My best advice would be to analyze every dollar going out your door and figure out what you can cut out."
girl: "there's nothing left to cut!"
me: "The other day you were telling me to watch 'Homeland" and 'Dexter'....how much are you paying a month for those premium channels? Every day you come to work with giant cups of whatever from Starbucks. The crazy thing is that we have a Keurig coffee maker here with unlimited free coffee in a variety of flavors. How much a month do you spend on Starbucks? You have a subscription to Entertainment Weekly that gets delivered to the office...how much does that cost? See what I mean? You have be honest with yourself and figure out what are needs and what are wants. Cut away the wants."
girl: "I'll try....but if there's anything you can do I'd really appreciate it."
me: "uhhhh-ok"

Click to expand...

Girl sounds like an idiot. Well, I guess she sounds like everyone else in her generation. And, with that, I'm guessing she's a receptionist/secretary? If so, do receptionists/secretaries really make $50K-$60K a year?

RappSoda said:

As an HR professional, you'd be subject to suspension in my workplace.

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A professional? Wow. Fortunately there's no one who can suspend me. :chuckles: But if I were an HR professional at your big company i'd suspend your ass for posting on RCF during work hours instead of doing your job.

As managers, we have responsibilities to be coaches and mentors for our employees professionally. It helps them look at us as help rather than look at us in fear.

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I'm pretty sure none of my employees fear me. I have an open door...they come to me for help/advice often...too often. I don't think any of them would tell you i'm ever inappropriate with what I say. They may not always like what I say, but they know my intentions are always good.

Where we're supposed to draw the line is with personal matters. We're not even supposed to speak on personal matters if asked or approached. For you to tell someone how to use their paycheck, IMO, is inappropriate.

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I own a small business...a dozen people. My employees are like family. I'd do almost anything for them. Like my family, they need some tough love every once in a while. I just gave her a reality check.

You do not know enough about her personal life to make assumptions about whether or not she has Showtime or is at a friend's house or whether or not she has a boyfriend who gets her Starbucks, etc.

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You have no clue what you are talking about. I know TOO MUCH about her personal life. My single biggest complaint about her is that she talks too much and can be distracting for others. She's a good worker, but she shares way too much information.

I know I'll get the "enjoy candyland you hippie liberal", but that is just arrogant.

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Honestly, what in the name of God are you talking about?

Personal info is not ours to make assumptions on, let alone comment on and brag about later. If she can't cut it with her pay, everything will take care of itself.

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Dude, it was some friendly advice. She took the easy route - "Obama wants $100 more, I'll go ask Max for $100 more." Sorry, I'm very generous with her compensation and she knows it. When she says there's nowhere to cut, I know better, so I called her on it. If I wanted to be an asshole I could have asked her why her Accord was averaging 15mpg. :chuckles: I know she fills up her husband's car with her company gas card, but hey, times are tough...i get it.

I've never had an employee voluntarily leave my company...she loves working here and won't be the first to quit. I wish a mentor had given me some more advice when i was younger.

This is why HR departments are often needed, actually, required.

We need more honest, open discussions in the workplace (open door policy).

Treating adults like adults will only increase productivity.

Maximus said:

So my office manager just shot this email around my office...



5mins later office girl walks into talk to office manager...

girl: "how much is this going to be?"
office manager: "about $50 per check"
girl: "i'm already living paycheck to paycheck"
office manager: "a lot of us are..."

girl then walks in to talk to one of my partners and i...borderline crying(maybe faking).

girl: "i asked for a raise last month because i'm having trouble making ends meet. you said "no". Now i'm getting an email saying effective immediately i'm going to make $1000 less this year. can't you guys do something to offset this?"
me: "the other two owners and i stopped taking paychecks and raided our 401K's to keep everyone here employed and to get us through the crash."
girl: "i know this, but we had a really great year last year."
me: "didn't you see the millions in cancellation we got in the weeks following the election?"
girl: "i did, but...but I can't afford to give up another $100 a month....my cost of living is going up and up...i need more not less".
me: "I feel your pain. Gas prices have doubled since Obama took office and declared war on domestic coal and oil. As soon as Obamacare got passed, our insurance costs went up over 25% each of the next two years."
girl: "this sucks..."
me: "At the risk of making you more upset, it's only the beginning...I'm sorry. My best advice would be to analyze every dollar going out your door and figure out what you can cut out."
girl: "there's nothing left to cut!"
me: "The other day you were telling me to watch 'Homeland" and 'Dexter'....how much are you paying a month for those premium channels? Every day you come to work with giant cups of whatever from Starbucks. The crazy thing is that we have a Keurig coffee maker here with unlimited free coffee in a variety of flavors. How much a month do you spend on Starbucks? You have a subscription to Entertainment Weekly that gets delivered to the office...how much does that cost? See what I mean? You have be honest with yourself and figure out what are needs and what are wants. Cut away the wants."
girl: "I'll try....but if there's anything you can do I'd really appreciate it."
me: "uhhhh-ok"

Click to expand...

The only thing i take from all of this is Holly Crap, Max has a Keurig Coffee Maker for his employees and I am stuck here chipping in $10 a month on my team so we can have Dunkin Donuts Coffee.

bcort said:

Girl sounds like an idiot. Well, I guess she sounds like everyone else in her generation. And, with that, I'm guessing she's a receptionist/secretary? If so, do receptionists/secretaries really make $50K-$60K a year?

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She wears a lot of hats. She's does everything we used to have two people doing. She's an idiot at times...but we'd be lost without her. She makes 50k, car and healthcare...at least until Obamacare kicks in and i tell her to go to get coverage from the exchange. :chuckles:

Lee said:

The only thing i take from all of this is Holly Crap, Max has a Keurig Coffee Maker for his employees and I am stuck here chipping in $10 a month on my team so we can have Dunkin Donuts Coffee.

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Best part is that she's the one that said we needed one! Yet still she buys a $9 fat free triple carmel mochachino latte machiatto frappachino every day.

BigMar Lion said:

This is why HR departments are often needed, actually, required.

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Actually...from my experience, HR departments PREVENT honest, open door policy conversations. HR departments are like a built in NAACP.

Fake Jigo said:

Actually...from my experience, HR departments PREVENT honest, open door policy conversations. HR departments are like a built in NAACP.

Click to expand...

I'm not disagreeing either. I've known my fair share of HR assholes.

EDIT - So maybe the idea of a department needs to go away (political party). A forum needs to be in place (anonymous) that allows people to express what they need to, with certain restrictions in place.

Maximus said:

She wears a lot of hats. She's does everything we used to have two people doing. She's an idiot at times...but we'd be lost without her. She makes 50k, car and healthcare...at least until Obamacare kicks in and i tell her to go to get coverage from the exchange. :chuckles:




Best part is that she's the one that said we needed one! Yet still she buys a $9 fat free triple carmel mochachino latte machiatto frappachino every day.

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And yet, you never hired me. Tsk tsk.

That girl needs to learn how she can really get a raise.

BigMar Lion said:

I went to a gas station around my town (BP) that used to do cash back and they no longer do it according to the clerk.

I also went to a local CVS and was told I could only get $35 back. I'm fairly certain I have seen the option to get more back when I've used their service in past years.

Jack...it's day 2. You are going to notice a lot of things once they start to position themselves right in front of our faces. Right now...everything is behind closed doors.








Here's another thing to look at....start looking at food items and drinks you've always purchased in the past. I can gaurantee you it will be easy to find a product you have been purchasing for awhile and realize that they have cut ingredients based on cost or other (i.e. see sugar, powerade has cut their sugar calories about 40 per serving).

Did anybody hear about how Dr. Pepper and others are really pushing this 10 calorie crap that has "just enough sugar" to keep you goin? Do you really think it's because people are becoming health conscience??? lol

People started cutting costs years ago....it's going to get a lot deeper.

Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with that and everything to do with Dodd-Frank. Plus a lot to do with Merchant Services and maybe just their general security. A lot of gas stations don't want to keep a lot of cash on hand.

And sugar in this country is more expensive then any other country. You can go to Canada and pay less for sugar. Congress is getting Russo'd and Demora'd by the sugar industry.

Walmart you can get 100 bucks back btw.

Hefner_Deezy said:

That girl needs to learn how she can really get a raise.

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Fucking priceless!

Maximus said:

A professional? Wow. Fortunately there's no one who can suspend me. :chuckles: But if I were an HR professional at your big company i'd suspend your ass for posting on RCF during work hours instead of doing your job.

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Touche', although I was off work at that time (I like to get in before 7 and out just after 4). I'm just telling you what I've learned throughout college/work. Also, a dozen people sounds like my Aunt's business, which is more of a family atmosphere and having <50 employees give you a lot more latitude with your employment limits. Sometimes reality checks are necessary for people, we're just not the ones who should be giving it to them (it can come back to bite me in my org).

Maximus said:

You have no clue what you are talking about.

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On the contrary. I happen to know more than I would care to about employment law. It is my job, though. Like I said, though, an office with a dozen employees can be a lot more "casual" about their adherence to employment law. Perhaps, I could have asked if you had a bigger company

Maximus said:

Dude, it was some friendly advice. She took the easy route - "Obama wants $100 more, I'll go ask Max for $100 more." Sorry, I'm very generous with her compensation and she knows it. When she says there's nowhere to cut, I know better, so I called her on it. If I wanted to be an asshole I could have asked her why her Accord was averaging 15mpg. :chuckles: I know she fills up her husband's car with her company gas card, but hey, times are tough...i get it.

I've never had an employee voluntarily leave my company...she loves working here and won't be the first to quit. I wish a mentor had given me some more advice when i was younger.

Click to expand...

Mentors can be both a blessing and a pain at times. I'm glad you're able to balance the boss/peer see-saw. Not many people can, thus making my department necessary. Also, mentors are great, but they don't trump good-old experience. I can say that and I'm sure I've had less experience than you.

Fake Jigo said:

Actually...from my experience, HR departments PREVENT honest, open door policy conversations. HR departments are like a built in NAACP.

Click to expand...

Not really true at all. Unions are like built in NAACP. HR stands in the middle of Unions, who are looking for the next slip, and management that often times doesn't have time to be consciously thinking about all of the little intricacies that they're held to by Unions (and consequently their Union employees/reps).

BigMar Lion said:

I'm not disagreeing either. I've known my fair share of HR assholes.

EDIT - So maybe the idea of a department needs to go away (political party). A forum needs to be in place (anonymous) that allows people to express what they need to, with certain restrictions in place.

Click to expand...

I generally can't take a shot at you because you bring up shit that nobody has enough time to look into, but you're just ill-informed here, Mar. First off, I'm an HR professional and for as much shit as we take, we're the people that fix all of the problems ignorant folk create.

So, HR is only there for people to air their grievances? Do you know anything about employment law? Do you know what goes on in a day of HR? Do you know the reason that HR is in place? I didn't think so.

The reasons HR is needed is because:

- Most employers have enough employees (most kick in after 50 employees) that they're held to laws such as COBRA, ADA, FMLA, Affirmative Action, etc.
- When the NAACP comes knocking at the front door asking about how many minorities are present in the workplace and how people are promoted, "assholes" like me have to come back to them demonstrating how HR went about getting to those "quotas". We can't be wrong.
- Do you know the cost of turnover? HR must do what they can to limit needless turnover because it is costly to search for, hire and train a new employee.
- Do you know the cost of training that goes into an employee? Enough to make a sizable difference in the bottom line of a company's profitability.
- Do you know the appropriate bonus levels that keep employees motivated and feeling like they have stake in the company? This is tricky. Based upon position and levels at which bonuses are handed out, a lot of feeling of hopelessness permeates a workforce if this is done improperly. Study CHEP Global Pooling's bonus system in 2007-2009, if the information isn't private. You'll find a workforce that experienced a ton of turnover and decreased productivity because of a botched bonus plan that left many employees without anything due to circumstances out of their control.
- Are you aware that most large public employers have to deal with 15 or more Unions? I know municipalities have like 30+ Unions to maintain relationships with.
- Have you heard of an employee filing with the NLRB because she felt she had too much work only to come back later and file again saying too much work was taken from her?
- Have you ever trained someone in a workplace or have had to be trained?

These are things that HR needs to come up with metrics to measure and, yes, we do show a $$ amount that affects the bottom line of an organization. So spare me with the idea of replacing HR with an "idea box".

What should have been is that Unions shouldn't be necessary. Management should be learning that a key to a good workforce is just being generally sympathetic and not completely greedy when it comes to the workforce, theoretically. Greed got in the way of treating people humane long ago, which is why employment laws are in place and Unions exist.