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The inability to separate reality from fantasy has nothing to do with mimicking aggression, another strawman. Cmon guys.

And as far the as the direction this its going in terms of "the people not being mentally sound first"goes, does that really have any importance in this argument considering that frankly there are many mentallyunsound people in America ego will be influenced similarly?
 
The inability to separate reality from fantasy has nothing to do with mimicking aggression, another strawman. Cmon guys.

And as far the as the direction this its going in terms of "the people not being mentally sound first"goes, does that really have any importance in this argument considering that frankly there are many mentallyunsound people in America ego will be influenced similarly?

The bolded text above is probably the dumbest thing you've ever said on here. Well, okay, probably not, but still, top ten.

And yes, the fact that many (if not most) of the perpetrators of these massacres are not mentally healthy has a huge importance to this argument. We shouldn't be required to structure our media around mentally unsound people. That's stupid. Instead, we should focus on identifying those individuals and getting them the proper healthcare and help that they need so that they don't become the next perpetrators.

Video games, movies, music, and books are and will always be a scapegoat for people who refuse to address the actual problems.
 
The inability to separate reality from fantasy has nothing to do with mimicking aggression, another strawman. Cmon guys.

If anything, you bringing up the bobo doll experiment in a discussion about violent video games and their effect/non-effect on recent shootings was a non sequitur. I hate these debate terms and wish people would stop throwing them around, especially incorrectly.

Think about it for a second.
What the experiment showed: young children mimic the behavior of aggressive adults against a toy
What you're trying to equate it to: young adults mimicking the aggressive behavior (understatement of the year) of virtual characters and murdering dozens of people

See the difference?
 
The bolded text above is probably the dumbest thing you've ever said on here. Well, okay, probably not, but still, top ten.

And yes, the fact that many (if not most) of the perpetrators of these massacres are not mentally healthy has a huge importance to this argument. We shouldn't be required to structure our media around mentally unsound people. That's stupid. Instead, we should focus on identifying those individuals and getting them the proper healthcare and help that they need so that they don't become the next perpetrators.

Video games, movies, music, and books are and will always be a scapegoat for people who refuse to address the actual problems.

I am totally for getting the mentally ill better care, but it sometimes a tough road. I am going off of memory here, but one of the shooters in the Columbine shootings was actually on meds for, I believe, depression issues. Unfortunately, and I can't remember the med right now or if they knew all the side effects at the time, but one of the side effects of it was increased propensity towards violent behavior/aggression. Of course that is said in hindsight, but it certainly doesn't seem to have been a help in that case.

Today, it seems like we still have the same issues with mental health meds. Sometimes, the side effects seem just as bad or worse than the problem they are "solving." The brain is such a complex and fragile thing, I'm not sure modern meds will ever have the right cocktail for each and every individual. Hell, people take fn sleeping pills and kill all the while getting some rest. Nicotine meds cause suicidal tendencies.
 
I am totally for getting the mentally ill better care, but it sometimes a tough road. I am going off of memory here, but one of the shooters in the Columbine shootings was actually on meds for, I believe, depression issues. Unfortunately, and I can't remember the med right now or if they knew all the side effects at the time, but one of the side effects of it was increased propensity towards violent behavior/aggression. Of course that is said in hindsight, but it certainly doesn't seem to have been a help in that case.

Today, it seems like we still have the same issues with mental health meds. Sometimes, the side effects seem just as bad or worse than the problem they are "solving." The brain is such a complex and fragile thing, I'm not sure modern meds will ever have the right cocktail for each and every individual. Hell, people take fn sleeping pills and kill all the while getting some rest. Nicotine meds cause suicidal tendencies.

You've actually hinted at another huge problem in this country: over-medication. Because our entire healthcare industry is all about profits and not about actually helping people, there's incentive for doctors to put their patients on medications that they may not necessarily need. That's why so many kids these days are on drugs for ADHD. When I was a kid, not paying attention in math class was called being a kid. Now it's cause to be put on daily medication.

It really is ridiculous. During Thanksgiving last year I found out one of my young cousins was diagnosed with ADHD. I spent the entire dinner wondering what was wrong with her (she's normally really fun to be around, even for someone like me who hates kids, but during this dinner she was really quiet and anti-social) before I found out she was on medication. Her meds basically stripped her of her unique personality, and it was extremely disappointing to me that her parents resorted to medication rather than dealing with her problems in other, more creative ways.

And as you stated, one of the big problems with medications is that they have (sometimes terrible) side effects. Side effects that many doctors probably don't really care about when they diagnose the meds.

But I mean, why try to solve a problem when you can just take a pill, right?
 
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Meds aren't the solution either. Meds just hide the symptoms, they don't cure anything.

The road to curing these people is most definitely a long one, I couldn't come up with a solution, it's much more complicated. It comes from parenthood as well as from society itself. These people just feel like they don't belong anywhere, and that's what needs to be cured.

By the way, locking them into a cell with other criminals or in a "asylum" (don't know the actual word) with other mentally unhealthy people isn't the solution either.
 
please explain how separating reality from fantasy has any correlation to mimicking behavior rather than using insults like a 5 year old, if your mental capacity allows it.

In response to your next nugget of gold, unfortunately we deal in a world of realities. You can't get rid of the mentally unsound and 'not structuring our media around these people' (see also: not glorifying violence) is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
 
If anything, you bringing up the bobo doll experiment in a discussion about violent video games and their effect/non-effect on recent shootings was a non sequitur. I hate these debate terms and wish people would stop throwing them around, especially incorrectly.

Think about it for a second.
What the experiment showed: young children mimic the behavior of aggressive adults against a toy
What you're trying to equate it to: young adults mimicking the aggressive behavior (understatement of the year) of virtual characters and murdering dozens of people

See the difference?

You can pick apart any study you want for not being an exact replica of real world application and call it 'an unaccounted for outlier', or you can accept the fact that the test subjects mimmicked what they saw. Which is not magically encouraged by their inability to separate reality from fantasy.. There is simply no relationship between the two.

More importantly, if you dont think you're influenced by what you see around you, by the friends you associate with, the world you live in etc., then I dont know what to say. Do you think a single thought running through your head wasn't influenced by someone else or do you believe that you've developed an entirely new epistemology in regards to every issue that's ever existed on your own?
 
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You'd think with video games becoming a mainstream form of entertainment over the last two decades that we'd see more violent youth. The exact opposite has happened. There must be some extreme offsetting factors if violent video games do in fact lead to more violent youth in any significant capacity.

In my own anecdotal observations, or personal study if you will, violent video games allow kids to take out aggression and the frustrations of youth in a virtual world rather than acting out with violence in the real world. Is that theory any less plausible than the other way around? The crime data supports my theory.

Graphs:
4054037455_cd02a07a3f.jpg

4054037451_0819eb3922.jpg


Parenting and mental health are by far the most important factors in the topic at hand. Violent games, movies, music and other forms of media are so far down the list, but they do serve as an easy target for blame.

Most of em are too lazy to get off the couch.
 
We shouldn't be required to structure our media around mentally unsound people. That's stupid.

We shouldn't be required to structure our gun laws around mentally unsound people. That's stupid.

Shows how hypocritical you are.
 
Most of em are too lazy to get off the couch.
Well then video games are a good thing : it keeps violent people from hurting actual human beings, since they can be virtually violent all day...

Dave K, just read Jack's posts, he already answered. Of course you are influenced by what you see, by what people tell you,... His point was that the bobodoll has no correlation to this debate. Separating reality from fantasy does, since its the main argument here that video games make people violent...

We shouldn't be required to structure our gun laws around mentally unsound people. That's stupid
You can make a point for gun control without bringing up the "mentally unsound people" argument. Guns, to me, make mentally healthy people more likely to commit a crime.
 
More drugs for the children!!!

Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")

Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
(Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)

Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
New York high school.

Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....

What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az

What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado

What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or

What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct
Roberts is the only one that I haven't heard about being on drugs of some kind.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/038616_John_Noveske_mysterious_death_car_crash.html#ixzz2IB2GcAT7
 
right, he did not explain his point, which is what I am asking for.

Your last statement does not serve as its own explanation. Simply stating that 'separating reality from fantasy is the most important' does not explain in any shape, way or form why someone would think that it is.

And idk whose argument was that video games make people violent, but if youre assuming its me, please dont put words in my mouth.
 
Notorious, do you actually read any of the posts Jack and I have written? Thank you for helping our point about medication...

DaveK : I am not saying you came up with the whole video games argument. You said : separating reality from fantasy doesn't have anything to do with this actual debate. It does, since some people are saying that video games are responsible for the violent crimes...
 
dude, do you actually read any of the posts Jack and I have written? Thank you for helping our point about medication...

I don't have to disagree with you on everything. I don't like your gun arguments, but I can certainly get behind not medicating developing children. There's not sides here. There's views. We don't have to disagree on everything because we disagree on one thing.
 

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