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Oden

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ill say it again, oden isnt coming here
http://www.foxsportsflorida.com/03/...landing_heat.html?blockID=874611&feedID=10140
[video=youtube;DvW-tnYtIqE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvW-tnYtIqE[/video]


we cant even get broken down free agents

break a leg greg

We can't get broken free agents why? Because you posted a Will Smith song? Oh, I guess that makes it official then! Oden to the Heat! Nevermind the things Oden has said about our organization, or that he lives in Ohio, or that he was at the game last night. Conley will always push those articles out, to manufacture artificial interest/demand for his client. He knows his best chance for a revival isnt sitting on the bench in Miami. He'll need time and patience, something WE have and THEY don't... plus, we'll offer him more money than they can, and knowing that he only has limited time left, you can guarantee he will take the bigger offer
 
The longer he waits, the more teams will be interested, and more likely to create a bidding war for his services. If he was to sign now, his options would be the Cavs, and...who else? In the summertime other teams would have a better idea of their salary situation.

the real money would come in 2015 after he proves he can stay healthy. Waiting now limits his choices then.
 
the real money would come in 2015 after he proves he can stay healthy. Waiting now limits his choices then.

The key part here is "proves he can stay healthy". What are the chances of that happening? I don't believe they're very good, and I personally think his knees are a ticking time bomb. I would try to get as much guaranteed money as I can in this current contract if I were him or his agent.
 
I'm not sure we even want him. Greg has more issues than just his knees.

At least he said he's over his depression issues. I was worried he would come out and say that he's still a mentally unstable alcoholic :chuckles:
 
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I'm not sure we even want him. Greg has more issues than just his knees.
True but if he finds a way to make a subtle come back, and weed out the bad habits (I assume that is what you meant, the drinking and drug rumors) then it would be nice if we were the team it came to fruition for... I mean, it is a relatively low risk, high reward scenario.
 
I'm not sure we even want him. Greg has more issues than just his knees.

What's that? Let's not fool ourselves. If the Cavs offer more money than every other team to get Oden but he chooses to play for less money so he doesn't have to play for the Cavs, then that's pretty embarrassing.
 
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Don't know if Max, or anyone else close to the Cavs, can answer this. But were the articles about the Cavs interest in Oden overly exaggerated? If so, was that coming from Oden's camp? Cavs camp? Bored, imaginative media? Or did the Cavs have interest and then cut back on the extent of their interest for whatever reason? Because a handful of articles definitely made it seem like we have legit interest in him. Just curious.
 
Don't know if Max, or anyone else close to the Cavs, can answer this. But were the articles about the Cavs interest in Oden overly exaggerated? If so, was that coming from Oden's camp? Cavs camp? Bored, imaginative media? Or did the Cavs have interest and then cut back on the extent of their interest for whatever reason? Because a handful of articles definitely made it seem like we have legit interest in him. Just curious.

They were/are interested, but it's nothing they are going to rush into...they're being cautious. They've worked him out and he looks pretty good. But, there's a lot of obvious concerns about how he will hold up. As some posters mentioned a few posts up, he has some other issues besides his knees. I think he needs to be thoroughly vetted for a few mor months to see if he or his demons are in control. Just my opinion, he may not be someone you want around our young guys for 2-3 years.

I'm glad we waited and didn't rush into it. Let's get the draft and trades out of the way first. Then worry about free agency and then Oden. We may not need him. I know we're only talking a few million dollars, but cap space is incredibly valuable. Can't afford to waste any.

I guess my initial post above was to point out that this isn't all a matter of Greg deciding where he wants to go. I'm not sure he was ever offered contracts by anyone. The Cavs may offer him a contract this summer, but they may choose not to. I'm not sure...
 
I mean, it is a relatively low risk, high reward scenario.

How did you come to the conclusion that it was low risk scenario when we don't really know what it is going to take to sign the kid yet and we don't know the likelihood of him being able to play?

In order to evaluate risk, you got to know what you are wagering and what the odds of a payoff are.

If Oden signs a 3 year, non-guaranteed deal near minimum salary and his happy with working hard like a 15th man to earn court time, then yes, it sounds like a low risk situation. It's a small wager. However if he would accept something like that, I think he might be on the roster already.

If Oden is holding out for a $10Mil over 3 years guaranteed contract, then there's something significant wagered by the team. Cap space is precious. There's a lot of other things that the Cavs could do with that salary space, like sign Wayne Ellington, or swing another Ellington type deal. Signing Oden could risk the team's ability to do those things.

And if the doctors & trainers say that it's a 100-1 shot that he'll be able to play meaningful minutes for a full year, it would be foolish to offer him any sort of contract. There needs to be better than a 50-50 shot to make it worth while, IMHO.

I wouldn't call it low risk until we know what it would cost to bring Oden onto the roster and had some sort of idea how likely it is that the kid will ever play. Evidence right now suggests to me that it would cost some significant money to sign him and the odds of him playing are very low, and that he might not be the greatest locker room addition. In my opinion, it's risky to sign him to any deal with guaranteed money.
 
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How did you come to the conclusion that it was low risk scenario when we don't really know what it is going to take to sign the kid yet and we don't know the likelihood of him being able to play?

In order to evaluate risk, you got to know what you are wagering and what the odds of a payoff are.

If Oden signs a 3 year, non-guaranteed deal near minimum salary and his happy with working hard like a 15th man to earn court time, then yes, it sounds like a low risk situation. It's a small wager. However if he would accept something like that, I think he might be on the roster already.

If Oden is holding out for a $10Mil over 3 years guaranteed contract, then there's something significant wagered by the team. Cap space is precious. There's a lot of other things that the Cavs could do with that salary space, like sign Wayne Ellington, or swing another Ellington type deal. Signing Oden could risk the team's ability to do those things.

And if the doctors & trainers say that it's a 100-1 shot that he'll be able to play meaningful minutes for a full year, it would be foolish to offer him any sort of contract. There needs to be better than a 50-50 shot to make it worth while, IMHO.

I wouldn't call it low risk until we know what it would cost to bring Oden onto the roster and had some sort of idea how likely it is that the kid will ever play. Evidence right now suggests to me that it would cost some significant money to sign him and the odds of him playing are very low, and that he might not be the greatest locker room addition. In my opinion, it's risky to sign him to any deal with guaranteed money.


True, in a rare interview with Oden he admitted that he was forced to return early by the Portland staff, the media, the fans. He ended up making things much worse on himself, but he said he's out to prove to everybody that he can still play the game.

I think he needs a good two years rest, kind of like Livingston, there was a down period where he disappeared. Oden believes that he could play and contribute, but can he actually do it? and be successful is the real question.

I hope it happens, his size and defensive instinct could be a good addition. If our money could be given to Mareesee Speights, I think I'd overpay slightly on Speights or Ellington and keep those guys long term, rather than gamble on Oden.


If Oden is out to prove everybody wrong he should start off by taking a reasonable contract. That will allow him to ease himself back into the pace and physicality of the NBA game. I think Oden believes he would benefit from the Cleveland Clinic. His experience in Portland left a ton to be desired of their training staff.

Hopefully we can get Greg on the cheap, so that it would be a win-win for both parties involved. If he's asking for a lot of guaranteed money, I'd turn it down. Make Oden earn it, because if he's paid for nothing you are only enabling his demons.
 
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How did you come to the conclusion that it was low risk scenario when we don't really know what it is going to take to sign the kid yet and we don't know the likelihood of him being able to play?

In order to evaluate risk, you got to know what you are wagering and what the odds of a payoff are.

If Oden signs a 3 year, non-guaranteed deal near minimum salary and his happy with working hard like a 15th man to earn court time, then yes, it sounds like a low risk situation. It's a small wager. However if he would accept something like that, I think he might be on the roster already.

If Oden is holding out for a $10Mil over 3 years guaranteed contract, then there's something significant wagered by the team. Cap space is precious. There's a lot of other things that the Cavs could do with that salary space, like sign Wayne Ellington, or swing another Ellington type deal. Signing Oden could risk the team's ability to do those things.

And if the doctors & trainers say that it's a 100-1 shot that he'll be able to play meaningful minutes for a full year, it would be foolish to offer him any sort of contract. There needs to be better than a 50-50 shot to make it worth while, IMHO.

I wouldn't call it low risk until we know what it would cost to bring Oden onto the roster and had some sort of idea how likely it is that the kid will ever play. Evidence right now suggests to me that it would cost some significant money to sign him and the odds of him playing are very low, and that he might not be the greatest locker room addition. In my opinion, it's risky to sign him to any deal with guaranteed money.

three assumptions

1 - We won't use all of our cap space until the 2014 offseason, but have to at least hit the league minimum salary this offseason
2 - Any team that offers Oden a contract will have a team option for 2014-15.
3 - Oden won't get more than the $5.1 million Brando Roy signed for.

The combination of those makes signing Oden a low risk signing with a potential high reward. If Oden expects 2 or 3 to be wrong, he's going to be disappointed. Low risk because we have to spend money to hit the league minimum salary. Potential high reward because we're talking about a guy who's potential if healthy is to be one of the best centers in the league. If he proves healthy, signing him would be on par with drafting Nerlens Noel, who also has significant health questions right now. If anything, Oden is further along in assessing his recovery than Noel will be draft night.
 
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three assumptions

1 - We won't use all of our cap space until the 2014 offseason, but have to at least hit the league minimum salary this offseason
2 - Any team that offers Oden a contract will have a team option for 2014-15.
3 - Oden won't get more than the $5.1 million Brando Roy signed for.

The combination of those makes signing Oden a low risk signing with a potential high reward. If Oden expects 2 or 3 to be wrong, he's going to be disappointed. Low risk because we have to spend money to hit the league minimum salary. Potential high reward because we're talking about a guy who's potential if healthy is to be one of the best centers in the league. If he proves healthy, signing him would be on par with drafting Nerlens Noel, who also has significant health questions right now. If anything, Oden is further along in assessing his recovery than Noel will be draft night.

High risk if he's still drinking and partying...that's a bad influence for some young, easily influenced, young players...at any price. Especially if we are trading for a major piece and need the extra money to make a huge trade or signing happen.
 
three assumptions

1 - We won't use all of our cap space until the 2014 offseason, but have to at least hit the league minimum salary this offseason
2 - Any team that offers Oden a contract will have a team option for 2014-15.
3 - Oden won't get more than the $5.1 million Brando Roy signed for.

The combination of those makes signing Oden a low risk signing with a potential high reward. If Oden expects 2 or 3 to be wrong, he's going to be disappointed. Low risk because we have to spend money to hit the league minimum salary. Potential high reward because we're talking about a guy who's potential if healthy is to be one of the best centers in the league. If he proves healthy, signing him would be on par with drafting Nerlens Noel, who also has significant health questions right now. If anything, Oden is further along in assessing his recovery than Noel will be draft night.

Cartilage damage is totally different from a ligament tear. A ligament tear can heal completely. Ligaments don't get worn down gradually by wear and tear. There are widely available procedures to replace torn ligaments with stronger ones. On the other hand, once cartilage is gone, it ain't coming back. Cartilage wears down every day you live. You can sit out two months, two years, or twenty years, but your body will never heal damaged cartilage. There is no procedure to restore damaged cartilage to a normal, healthy state (not even at the Cleveland Clinc). Basically, it would be a miracle for his knees to be in the same condition they were in when Portland drafted him.

Sure, you can reduce the inflammation (Orthokine), and you can replace damaged cartilage with inferior (weaker) cartilage (microfracture surgery). Those work fine for people dealing with gradually diminishing cartilage due to age, or for people with small, isolated defects in their cartilage. Oden falls into a different category. His cartilage has proven time and time again that it is simply not up to the task of supporting an NBA basketball player. It would be absolutely bizarre for his knees to go longer without injury in Cleveland than they did in Portland. His longest stretch of games without a knee injury was 45 games, and he would have to literally quadruple that number to have any chance of helping the Cavs when they're contending in the playoffs. I'm not sure what's more crazy...thinking he can go that long without a knee injury, or thinking he'll be able to come back from yet another knee injury, when his most recent one has kept him out for 2+ years.
 

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