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Victor Oladipo Crush-a-lot

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ImWithDan said:
The 3 players you mentioned shot a combined 37-87 (42.5%) against Indiana.

So you're cherry picking what you believe to be his worst games, against the best opponents and that still amounted to a below average offensive output?

His offense won't translate? It was predicated on finishing at the rim and hitting open jumpshots. So elite athleticism, with a knack for finishing in traffic and catching on the wing and shooting aren't translatable skills?

I am absolutely in the camp that his offense will be a work in progress but it won't nearly be the eyesore many are making it out to be.
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Who else with any sort of NBA aspirations did he play against?

Oh Gary Harris at MSU and he torched him too. Brandon Paul even had some success at Illinois. He's currently not an elite NBA defender.

His offense was fucking spoon fed to him at IU and nobody can deny that. Those opportunities won't be available for him in the NBA; he needs to be able to create offense as a guard but he can't. IU tried developing those skills and he wasn't able to do it. He's reliant upon someone else getting him the ball and thats a real issue. Sure he's going to hit a few open shots in the NBA but those are few and far between.
 
Nathan S said:
Ok, maybe I'm gonna be all picky-choosy and want to fill the hole with someone who isn't a massive offensive liability.
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But you're advocating taking one at the top of the draft.....
 
Indiana's schedule was full of teams with players with NBA aspirations:

UGA:
Georgetown
Butler
North Carolina
Michigan State
Ohio State
Michigan
Syracuse

And it's the national scouts, GMs, and former players who broadcast who all identify and praise his talents as upper echelon defensive ability and potential, not fanboys like us on a Cavs site.

Seriously, he's not even my top pick for who I want us to take, but your downgrading of his athleticism , current defensive prowess, and pro defensive potential is beyond boggling.


jwalker1399 said:
Who else with any sort of NBA aspirations did he play against?

Oh Gary Harris at MSU and he torched him too. Brandon Paul even had some success at Illinois. He's currently not an elite NBA defender.

His offense was fucking spoon fed to him at IU and nobody can deny that. Those opportunities won't be available for him in the NBA; he needs to be able to create offense as a guard but he can't. IU tried developing those skills and he wasn't able to do it. He's reliant upon someone else getting him the ball and thats a real issue. Sure he's going to hit a few open shots in the NBA but those are few and far between.
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Tecumseh said:
Taking Oladipo would be similar to the Browns drafting Mingo. OLB wasn't the biggest need for the Browns but Mingo has the potential to make our front seven elite. SG isn't the biggest need on the Cavs, but Oladipo has the potential to make our guard rotation elite.
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Pretty much kills this thread, taking Oladipo would be like a move the Browns made... haha no way in hell I want this kid now.


Irving-Oladipo-Barnes or Irving-Waiters-Porter
 
This is also hilarious because the Cavs currently have TWO players with potential elite playmaking skills just ready to spoonfeed a player like Oladipo the types of passes on cuts, lobs, and open looks that you think he requires.

Nobody on here is arguing that Oladipo would need to come in here and be a primary offensive playmaker. But he would be one hell of a finisher, offensive rebounder, knock down the open 3 from the attention Kryie and Dion drives create, and get those same type of hustle baskets from the backcourt that Andy gets(when healthy) from the frontcourt.

Oh and all while being a player that can be an elite wing perimeter and team defender.

Are there other good options? Certainly. Doesn't mean you need to try and minimize the type of impact Oladipo could have if for whatever reason(including us picking at 5 or 6 and Noel, Porter, and Len all being gone) he ends up being our pick.

jwalker1399 said:
His offense was fucking spoon fed to him at IU and nobody can deny that. Those opportunities won't be available for him in the NBA; he needs to be able to create offense as a guard but he can't. IU tried developing those skills and he wasn't able to do it. He's reliant upon someone else getting him the ball and thats a real issue. Sure he's going to hit a few open shots in the NBA but those are few and far between.
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jwalker1399 said:
Oh Gary Harris at MSU and he torched him too. Brandon Paul even had some success at Illinois
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Brandon Paul:
2 games against IU. Paul shoots 6-14(43%) in game 1 and 2-13(15.4%) in game 2. Is that what you meant by "had some success"?

Gary Harris 2 games against IU. IU won both. Harris scored well, but shot below 50% in both games. Oladipos line in those two games?:

Game 1: 21 pts, 8-12 FG, 1-2 3PFG, 7 Rebounds, 6 Steals, 3 Blocks
Game 2: 19 pts, 7-11 FG, 1-3 3PFG, 4-4 FT, 9 Rebounds, 5 steals, 1 block

You might want to redefine your definition of "torched" or learn to give examples that actual support your claims.
 
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MirORich said:
This is also hilarious because the Cavs currently have TWO players with potential elite playmaking skills just ready to spoonfeed a player like Oladipo the types of passes on cuts, lobs, and open looks that you think he requires.

Nobody on here is arguing that Oladipo would need to come in here and be a primary offensive playmaker. But he would be one hell of a finisher, offensive rebounder, knock down the open 3 from the attention Kryie and Dion drives create, and get those same type of hustle baskets from the backcourt that Andy gets(when healthy) from the frontcourt.

Oh and all while being a player that can be an elite wing perimeter and team defender.

Are there other good options? Certainly. Doesn't mean you need to try and minimize the type of impact Oladipo could have if for whatever reason(including us picking at 5 or 6 and Noel, Porter, and Len all being gone) he ends up being our pick.
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I think he's vastly overrated and I'm entitled to my opinion, so don't try to minimize his deficiencies that I'm bringing to light. I think there are numerous available options that will fit this team better.

You're saying we should take a 6'4" SG and play him with an undersized back-court AND undersized front-court. You see, I think THAT'S crazy. He's 6'4" and would be asked to be a primary defender of SF's; even Tony Allen couldn't do that and the Grizzlies still protect him with another stud perimeter defender and a Defensive Player of the Year rim protector-- the Cavs have none of those things. And furthermore, didn't the Cavs hire Mike Brown to make the current Cavaliers players better on defense so they wouldn't have to bring in defense-only prospects like Oladipo? I wouldn't think about taking Oladipo until #8.
 
jwalker1399 said:
He's 6'4" and would be asked to be a primary defender of SF's.
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According to who? You?

I don't even know what you're arguing any more. That Oladipo can't play full time at small forward?

Because I don't see anyone in this thread making that argument.
 
ImWithDan said:
According to who? You?

I don't even know what you're arguing any more. That Oladipo can't play full time at small forward?

Because I don't see anyone in this thread making that argument.
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Try reading the post I was replying before spouting off.

He said Oladipo would thrive playing with Kyrie and Dion. Unless he meant he'd play PF or C. I never know. I guess that was presumptuous on my part. Maybe Oladipo should be head coach too?
 
You talk about minimizing. I've never seen someone go so far out of their way to minimize what a player did offensively against a stellar national schedule and B1G ten schedule as what you're doing with Oladipo.

As far as Tony Allen, did you not watch the fourth quarter of every game in the Grizzlies-Thunder series that just wrapped up, especially the clincher game? Who guarded 6'10 Durant as well as anyone in the league is capable of? 6'5" Tony Allen. Positions be damned. Height be damned. At the clutch moments of playoff basketball, Memphis has someone that has the footwork, latera quickness, quick hands, and defensive intelligence to not just try and go for steals or blocks, but to body and move with Durant, preventing him from getting to his favored spots on the floor for high percentage shots. That is what perimeter defense is about and that is what the scouts and coaches all see in Oladipo.

jwalker1399 said:
I think he's vastly overrated and I'm entitled to my opinion, so don't try to minimize his deficiencies that I'm bringing to light. I think there are numerous available options that will fit this team better.

You're saying we should take a 6'4" SG and play him with an undersized back-court AND undersized front-court. You see, I think THAT'S crazy. He's 6'4" and would be asked to be a primary defender of SF's; even Tony Allen couldn't do that and the Grizzlies still protect him with another stud perimeter defender and a Defensive Player of the Year rim protector-- the Cavs have none of those things. And furthermore, didn't the Cavs hire Mike Brown to make the current Cavaliers players better on defense so they wouldn't have to bring in defense-only prospects like Oladipo? I wouldn't think about taking Oladipo until #8.
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jwalker1399 said:
Try reading the post I was replying before spouting off.

He said Oladipo would thrive playing with Kyrie and Dion. Unless he meant he'd play PF or C. I never know. I guess that was presumptuous on my part. Maybe Oladipo should be head coach too?
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There's 96 minutes per game between PG and SG. Depending on the matchup, Oladipo is good for anywhere between 8-20 mpg at SF. So there is plenty of time for him to be on the floor with not only one of Kyrie and Dion, but often even both of them.
 
Dude, it's hard to take you seriously when you act like Oladipo brings nothing on offense. He's probably the best finisher at the rim of any player in this draft, he's an excellent offensive rebounder for a guard, and he can knock down open 3's. You act like Indiana could have just plugged in any stiff in Oladipo's place and he would've shot 60% from the field and 44% from 3. Just silly. So he only made 4 of his last 15 3's in the season. You know who else made 4 of his last 15 3's? Ray Allen. You know who made 3 of his last 15 3's? Stephen Curry. Just because a guy finishes the season on a cold streak doesn't mean you throw out the abundant evidence that he is, in fact, a good shooter.
 
MirORich said:
Brandon Paul:
2 games against IU. Paul shoots 6-14(43%) in game 1 and 2-13(15.4%) in game 2. Is that what you meant by "had some success"?

Gary Harris 2 games against IU. IU won both. Harris scored well, but shot below 50% in both games. Oladipos line in those two games?:

Game 1: 21 pts, 8-12 FG, 1-2 3PFG, 7 Rebounds, 6 Steals, 3 Blocks
Game 2: 19 pts, 7-11 FG, 1-3 3PFG, 4-4 FT, 9 Rebounds, 5 steals, 1 block

You might want to redefine your definition of "torched" or learn to give examples that actual support your claims.
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I was talking strictly defense and Harris didn't even guard Oladipo, that would've been 6'1 PG Keith Appling.

If Oladipo is giving up nearly 20 pts against 18-20 year old NCAA players with borderline NBA potential, I hardly qualify that to be an elite NBA defender, which was the original argument. He's not an elite NBA defender today.
 
ImWithDan said:
According to who? You?

I don't even know what you're arguing any more. That Oladipo can't play full time at small forward?

Because I don't see anyone in this thread making that argument.
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There are pleny of people who have made that arguement

And

You are aware of what Dipio measured right?

6'3 w/o shoes and 6'4.25 with shoes

Dipio is barely 6'4 in shoes and people want him to start at SF, he would more than likely get abused by SF's in the league

http://basslinespin.blogspot.com/2011/06/average-size-of-nba-starter.html

Small Forwards: Average size was 6'8", 224 lbs. Smallest starter was 6'5", and tallest was 6'10". The lowest weight was 195 lbs., and the heaviest was 260 lbs.
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If Dipio played full time at SF he would be the shortest SF in the league
 
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