Sterling surrenders control of Clippers to Shelly (pg 35)

Re: So Clippers owner Donald Sterling is extremely racist

cafemerald said:

Then I'll think the NBA is a hypocritical organization that is only concerned about protecting its revenue.

But then again, most large for-profit companies probably fall under this category.

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We're in agreement.

I'm only not responding to the rest of your post before this because I really don't have any major disagreements with what you said, including that Sterling's questionable opinion towards blacks people has a far longer history than Shaq's with the disabled.

Re: So Clippers owner Donald Sterling is extremely racist

Little Seizer said:

Sterling- an NBA team owner- privately comments that he doesn't want his sidepiece to hang out with black guys in public. 2.5m fine. Lifetime ban. Forced to sell his team.

Shaquille O'Neal- an NBA owner- mocks a deformed and disabled man on an extremely public forum. LITERALLY nothing happens.

I mean at the VERY LEAST, we at least have some cognitive dissonance over this, right? Like your gut reaction is to think to yourselves, "that ain't right." Right? And it confirms what a lot of people have known for a long time...Shaq's not exactly the nicest guy in the world.

Somebody explain the difference between these two situations to me. I'm not asking to hear for the 80th time that they had to do it to appease the black players, coaches and fans who have a massive influence over the game. I know- and we all know- damn well that's why Sterling is being punished the way he is. I'm asking someone to explain this from a standpoint of what's right and wrong...according to the precedent the NBA set last week.

I'm trying to look at this objectively and from a neutral point of view this stinks to high hell of hypocrisy.

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The difference is that Sterling commented about all minorities. Shaq accidentally made fun of one handicapped person, and likely didn't know the kid was handicapped when he did it. Shaq also apologized immediately once he learned that the kid was handicapped, whereas Sterling has no regrets about what he said. There is a huge difference there. I'm not saying Shaq shouldn't be fined, but pretending this situation is even remotely similar to Sterling's is just ignorant.

Re: So Clippers owner Donald Sterling is extremely racist

Ehh. Shaq probably knew the kid was disabled. But he has a goofy, mock-for-humor mentality and most likely didn't realize how offensive his actions really were.

Re: So Clippers owner Donald Sterling is extremely racist

cafemerald said:

When did I say 'no consequences' and 'shouldn't punish him'?

I pretty clearly state he should be fined and publically ridiculed. I just think these two offenses are on completely different levels.


I also forgot to include this in my Sterling summary:

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Sorry, but Silver already set the bar and that's not enough punishment. Gilbert has been tweeting #zerotolerance, where is it now?

Re: So Clippers owner Donald Sterling is extremely racist

cafemerald said:

Ehh. Shaq probably knew the kid was disabled. But he has a goofy, mock-for-humor mentality and most likely didn't realize how offensive his actions really were.

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Inexcusable!

Re: So Clippers owner Donald Sterling is extremely racist

Well shaq should be receiving his lifetime ban any second now. Difference between shaq and sterling, sterling will die long before any court case could be settled, shaq will still live another 20 years after his is settled.

Seriously though 2.5 million and a 2 year ban doesn’t seem like a bad place to start. Maybe 5 year ban. If we can ban, fine, and force someone to sell their franchise because he was baited into saying some racist remarks in a private setting, how is shaq going to get away with nothing. Slippery slope indeed, cuban is a smart man.

Re: So Clippers owner Donald Sterling is extremely racist

Mdog1 said:

If we can ban, fine, and force someone to sell their franchise because he was baited into saying some racist remarks in a private setting, how is shaq going to get away with nothing?

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Pretty much the real question here.

Some people say it's because Shaq doesn't have the pattern of behavior that Sterling has. So if they want to play it that way, why aren't NBA executives that knew of the behavior over the last 20 years being held accountable as well?

But if you are punishing Sterling for this isolated incident, you must punish Shaq in some fashion, as well.

Re: So Clippers owner Donald Sterling is extremely racist

SuperSurge said:

Pretty much the real question here.

Some people say it's because Shaq doesn't have the pattern of behavior that Sterling has. So if they want to play it that way, why aren't NBA executives that knew of the behavior over the last 20 years being held accountable as well?

But if you are punishing Sterling for this isolated incident, you must punish Shaq in some fashion, as well.

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Adam silver was asked during the press conference why nothing was done until now, and it was because they never had proof. So in the NBA's eyes it is not in fact a pattern. Shaq didn't have a pattern, punishment should be equal no.

Re: So Clippers owner Donald Sterling is extremely racist

As a sidenote...her actions in recording that phone call were absolutely illegal. California is a two-party consent law. Meaning, she was not permitted to record that call without him being aware it was being done. For example...I don't believe anything he'd said on that call could have been used as evidence in a court of law had he acknowledged committing a crime. I hope that she is prosecuted for that crime because it's exactly what Americans get up in arms about when our government does it to us.

Biw made a great point before that you can't put the racism jack back in the box once it's known, regardless of how the information has been acquired, but his punishments shouldn't sit as well with people as they seem to be.

I just think that people need to recognize that even if you believe the ends justify the means in certain situations, you should be willing to question the intentions of the punishers just as much as the intentions of those that are punished. And I don't feel that's being given as much consideration as it should.

Re: So Clippers owner Donald Sterling is extremely racist

Little Seizer said:

As a sidenote...her actions in recording that phone call were absolutely illegal. California is a two-party consent law. Meaning, she was not permitted to record that call without him being aware it was being done. For example...I don't believe anything he'd said on that call could have been used as evidence in a court of law had he acknowledged committing a crime. I hope that she is prosecuted for that crime because it's exactly what Americans get up in arms about when our government does it to us.


Biw made a great part before that you can't put the racism jack back in the box once it's known, regardless of how the information has been acquired, but his punishments shouldn't sit as well with people as they seem to be.

I just think that people need to recognize that even if you believe the ends justify the means in certain situations, you should be willing to question the intentions of the punishers just as much as the intentions of those that are punished. And I don't feel that's being given as much consideration as it should.

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You do know he's be sued before for racism by other people right?

He almost got banned by the NBA in 1982 (different issue - tanking).

Re: So Clippers owner Donald Sterling is extremely racist

Simon said:

You do know he's be sued before for racism by other people right?

He almost got banned by the NBA in 1982 (different issue - tanking).

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Of course I know that. Not only was he sued...he paid a settlement too. Elgin Baylor also brought a wrongful termination suit against Sterling in which he accused Sterling of making some undeniably racist comments about black people when he said that he wanted to fill his team with "poor black boys from the south and a white head coach," and that when he was negotiating Danny Manning's salary he said, "I'm offering a lot of money for a poor black kid." ...if in fact he said those things. Baylor also claimed that his salary had been frozen for years in spite of the way Sterling was paying his white head coach...without mention to how much Sterling paid the black players and of course...we later saw that Sterling was willing to hire a black head coach. The frozen salary is circumstantial evidence at best that his salary was frozen due to his color.

By the way...Baylor lost the case in a unanimous vote by a jury that determined that he was fired due to performance issues rather than age discrimination and that Sterling wasn't overseeing a hostile workplace.


So...

What does the housing discrimination lawsuit have to do with whether Sterling is capable of owning a basketball business correctly? If we determined an owner's capability of owning a team based on the lawsuits brought against them in their business life, lawsuits filed against their companies and overall media investigation about their business-related actions...you'd run out of a hell of a lot of owners.


And moreover...do you deny that Silver's intentions should be questioned in making his decision?

Little Seizer said:

As a sidenote...her actions in recording that phone call were absolutely illegal. California is a two-party consent law. Meaning, she was not permitted to record that call without him being aware it was being done. For example...I don't believe anything he'd said on that call could have been used as evidence in a court of law had he acknowledged committing a crime. I hope that she is prosecuted for that crime because it's exactly what Americans get up in arms about when our government does it to us.

Biw made a great point before that you can't put the racism jack back in the box once it's known, regardless of how the information has been acquired, but his punishments shouldn't sit as well with people as they seem to be.

I just think that people need to recognize that even if you believe the ends justify the means in certain situations, you should be willing to question the intentions of the punishers just as much as the intentions of those that are punished. And I don't feel that's being given as much consideration as it should.

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Actually, it wasn't a phone call. If you listen to the recording, they're both in the same room. Supposedly Sterling ASKED her to record their conversations because his memory is poor.

Re: So Clippers owner Donald Sterling is extremely racist

shoes22 said:

Actually, it wasn't a phone call. If you listen to the recording, they're both in the same room. Supposedly Sterling ASKED her to record their conversations because his memory is poor.

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:rofl:

No fucking way...

If that's true, I change my position entirely. Fuck him. I want him gone just for being that stupid.



In all seriousness...him being dumb enough to ask her to record THAT just shows he's even more of a moron than I thought he was. Even if she was baiting him...how stupid can you be? He shouldn't necessarily EXPECT that she (or a third party) would release it, but why leave yourself open to the possibility?

So anyways...he's clearly an idiot, but that still doesn't change my opinion that because the guy's an idiot doesn't mean he should be forced to sell his team.

EDIT:

You're right. At least according to this article, it was recorded by mutual agreement...which should be completely legal in CA.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-sterling-recording-was-leaked-by-third-party-attorney-says/

Re: So Clippers owner Donald Sterling is extremely racist

randymoss1881 said:

This is why the players should have stayed in there lane there messing with billionaires. If the worst happens and Sterling can't be forced out by October and the players boycott it won't last longer than the lockout.

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the players were going to boycott the games tuesday night (all 3 games) if the league didn't act strongly enough and sponsors were pulling out (quite a few pulled out of the clippers). The league acted before things got worse. I don't think anyone is talking about a boycott next season. The owners clearly are going to vote Sterling out. The players aren't going to boycott if things get tied up in court.

Re: So Clippers owner Donald Sterling is extremely racist

Little Seizer said:

:rofl:

No fucking way...

If that's true, I change my position entirely. Fuck him. I want him gone just for being that stupid.



In all seriousness...him being dumb enough to ask her to record THAT just shows he's even more of a moron than I thought he was. Even if she was baiting him...how stupid can you be? He shouldn't necessarily EXPECT that she (or a third party) would release it, but why leave yourself open to the possibility?

So anyways...he's clearly an idiot, but that still doesn't change my opinion that because the guy's an idiot doesn't mean he should be forced to sell his team.

EDIT:

You're right. At least according to this article, it was recorded by mutual agreement...which should be completely legal in CA.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-sterling-recording-was-leaked-by-third-party-attorney-says/

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Yeah, it was definitely consensual recording. Apparently he asked her to start "recording his thoughts" because he was having a hard time remembering stuff in his old age. :chuckles: That's not even a joke.