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Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

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Poor Pettine, guy is probably a good coach but could get railroaded out of town because of the myth that Johnny Football can play at the NFL level,

Hope it doesn't happen, Pettine embodies everything I want in terms of attitude and tone for this organization.
 
AZ_ said:
Poor Pettine, guy is probably a good coach but could get railroaded out of town because of the myth that Johnny Football can play at the NFL level,

Hope it doesn't happen, Pettine embodies everything I want in terms of attitude and tone for this organization.
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Agree w you about Pettine. Not about the "myth". There was a myth about short QBs once.... the Brees and Wilson came along. Let him play, we will see if he succeeds or fails. Too early to say. Your schtick is getting old.
 
It has nothing to do with short, his success or (more likely) failure will be completely independent of something as insignificant as height.
 
AZ_ said:
Poor Pettine, guy is probably a good coach but could get railroaded out of town because of the myth that Johnny Football can play at the NFL level,

Hope it doesn't happen, Pettine embodies everything I want in terms of attitude and tone for this organization.
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I doubt this happens, our owner and organization have a track record of patience and forward planning in these kinds of situations that would prevent a kneejerk reaction or judgement like that.
 
Orange Julius said:
Mind telling how you know him? Through a business relationship or personal? Just wondering how one goes about knowing Mr. Football.
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Went to HS in Central Texas and played football. The better ones all knew each other through camps and recruiting. Seastrunk. Swope. Aaron Williams. Johnny. List goes on. One of my older teammates went to A&M and played and they got even closer, obviously as teammates. So we all sort of know him.

I have a buddy on this board who also went to HS with me and he knows Johnny better than I do. But he isn't one to leak shit.
 
AZ_ said:
It has nothing to do with short, his success or (more likely) failure will be completely independent of something as insignificant as height.
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I think you missed the point. How is there a "myth" that Manziel can play? There is a myth that every rookie can play. Have to let them play to let the myth become reality. You happen to not like manziel so you shit on him at every chance you get. And when you talk about his "likely" failure.... most QB's fail in the NFL. It is actually "likely" they will fail. He is on our team, why don't you just give him a chance?

You like Pettine, and he has said Johnny has made great strides and has impressed. So do you trust Pettine or not? Seems like you want it both ways.
 
Orange Julius said:
I think you missed the point. How is there a "myth" that Manziel can play? There is a myth that every rookie can play. Have to let them play to let the myth become reality. You happen to not like manziel so you shit on him at every chance you get. And when you talk about his "likely" failure.... most QB's fail in the NFL. It is actually "likely" they will fail. He is on our team, why don't you just give him a chance?

You like Pettine, and he has said Johnny has made great strides and has impressed. So do you trust Pettine or not? Seems like you want it both ways.
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I'm definitely not going to pay attention to what any "opinion" a coach gives to the media. Whether he's impressed or not we'll most likely never know, because he's certainly not going to walk into a press conference and slam him.

I think it's "likely" that a two-year college starter, with limited physical skills, a gimmick collegiate offense and no evidence of a strong devotion to the game winds up being a bust.

He has a chance, but my opinion that's he's probably going to fail won't change because he's on the Browns now.
 
This whole off-season has a Derek Anderson vs. Brady Quinn kindof feel to it. I like Hoyer, but he's obviously a career backup. If Manziel can't beat him out, it doesn't bode well for his future. I would much rather JFF come out and shut the critics up, but I honestly think Weeden may have been a better prospect.
 
MalTalm said:
This whole off-season has a Derek Anderson vs. Brady Quinn kindof feel to it. I like Hoyer, but he's obviously a career backup. If Manziel can't beat him out, it doesn't bode well for his future. I would much rather JFF come out and shut the critics up, but I honestly think Weeden may have been a better prospect.
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Couldn't agree more, Probably a step down from Anderson/Quinn from a talent perspective, IMO.
 
AZ_ said:
I'm definitely not going to pay attention to what any "opinion" a coach gives to the media. Whether he's impressed or not we'll most likely never know, because he's certainly not going to walk into a press conference and slam him.

I think it's "likely" that a two-year college starter, with limited physical skills, a gimmick collegiate offense and no evidence of a strong devotion to the game winds up being a bust.

He has a chance, but my opinion that's he's probably going to fail won't change because he's on the Browns now.
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Well that's fine, but that is why they play the games. Does feel a little bit like Quinn/DA, but they both lacked leadership qualities. That can take you a long way. Ask Seattle.
 
Orange Julius said:
There is a myth that every rookie can play. Have to let them play to let the myth become reality.
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At the quarterback position, this is inaccurate. A project quarterback has historically learned behind the experienced guy until he is ready to lead everyone and be a coach on the field. Aaron Rogers, Colin Kaepernick, Brett Favre, Philip Rivers... there are plenty of very good quarterbacks who learned on the sidelines their first year. There is an even greater number of quarterbacks who were forced into action before they were ready and their careers never panned out: I tend to mention Tim Couch as a guy who never really got a fair shake because he got forced into action with a bad supporting cast before he was ready.

If you listen to why Pettine chose Hoyer for game 1, and why Manziel is sitting, I think you can see this is for the best interest of both players. Hoyer has been working with this inexperienced wide receiver group all summer, getting them prepped for situations. Johnny didn't.
 
Randolphkeys said:
At the quarterback position, this is inaccurate. A project quarterback has historically learned behind the experienced guy until he is ready to lead everyone and be a coach on the field. Aaron Rogers, Colin Kaepernick, Brett Favre, Philip Rivers... there are plenty of very good quarterbacks who learned on the sidelines their first year. There is an even greater number of quarterbacks who were forced into action before they were ready and their careers never panned out: I tend to mention Tim Couch as a guy who never really got a fair shake because he got forced into action with a bad supporting cast before he was ready.

If you listen to why Pettine chose Hoyer for game 1, and why Manziel is sitting, I think you can see this is for the best interest of both players. Hoyer has been working with this inexperienced wide receiver group all summer, getting them prepped for situations. Johnny didn't.
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Yeah, even a project QB, there is a myth he can eventually amount to a good player.
 
Randolphkeys said:
At the quarterback position, this is inaccurate. A project quarterback has historically learned behind the experienced guy until he is ready to lead everyone and be a coach on the field. Aaron Rogers, Colin Kaepernick, Brett Favre, Philip Rivers... there are plenty of very good quarterbacks who learned on the sidelines their first year. There is an even greater number of quarterbacks who were forced into action before they were ready and their careers never panned out: I tend to mention Tim Couch as a guy who never really got a fair shake because he got forced into action with a bad supporting cast before he was ready.

If you listen to why Pettine chose Hoyer for game 1, and why Manziel is sitting, I think you can see this is for the best interest of both players. Hoyer has been working with this inexperienced wide receiver group all summer, getting them prepped for situations. Johnny didn't.
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The obvious difference we're looking at here:

Aaron Rogers learned behind Brett Favre
Kaepernick learned from Alex Smith
Rivers learned from Drew Breese
Favre learned from Chris Miller (led Falcons to playoffs and was a pro-bowler in Favre's rookie year)

I don't really think Manziel is ready for game one, but the point being is that usually guys that sit and learn are sitting because they're playing behind guys that are legit NFL QB's. Hoyer has 4 career starts and 7 career NFL TD's. Realistically, how much will Manziel learn while sitting and watching Hoyer?

Honestly, I throw Hoyer to the wolves in week one. Let him face the Steelers. If he plays well, leave him in. If not, see what you have in Manziel the rest of the season. Hoyer isn't a long term solution at QB. We need to see if Manziel could be. Otherwise we'll be drafting another QB next season.
 
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