The Brian Hoyer thread...

CPK said:

Honestly, if we are getting any type of time machine I want to go back and prevent this team from ever moving. My god the people we had on staff back then, and think - Ozzie Newsome drafting for us instead of those god damned Ravens.

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CPK said:

Honestly, if we are getting any type of time machine I want to go back and prevent this team from ever moving. My god the people we had on staff back then, and think - Ozzie Newsome drafting for us instead of those god damned Ravens.

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MalTalm said:

Let's look: (From PFF NFL Rankings)

2014 | 2013 | 2012
Peyton Manning | Peyton Manning |Peyton Manning
Tom Brady | Tom Brady | Tom Brady
Drew Brees | Drew Brees |Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers | Aaron Rodgers | Aaron Rodgers
Ben Roethlisberger | Ben Roethlisberger | Ben Roethlisberger
Tony Romo | Tony Romo |Alex Smith
Philip Rivers | Philip Rivers | RGIII
Andrew Luck | Josh McCown | Russell Wilson
Carson Palmer | Russell Wilson | Matt Ryan
Alex Smith | Colin Kaepernick | Colin Kaepernick

Guys appearing every year in the top 10: Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and Big Ben (all in the league for 10+ years)
Guys appearing 2 out of 3: Romo, Alex Smith, Philip Rivers, Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson
Guys appearing only for one year: Carson Palmer, Josh McCown, RGIII, Andrew Luck

Of the past 3 years, only 4 players have been in the league for less than 10 years: Luck, RGIII, Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick.

And as I pointed out recently, Hoyer's 2014 performance is very similar to Wilson's 2013 campaign.

What I see is that mobility into the top 10 any year is still difficult. If you want a player who can hit that threshhold just once, I'd say Hoyer has as good of a shot as someone like Josh McCown. But the numbers don't lie: The biggest key to being successful in the NFL is total snap counts under center. In the meantime, limiting the QB's impact on the game helps ensure success.

I've been beating this drum through the past 5 or so pages, but let's look again. Of the four players who have cracked this elite list who've been in the league for less than 10 years, Kaepernick and Wilson share something in common:

Wilson and Kapernick, through 2013, were limited in their attempts per game. Wilson averaged 25 attempts per game in 2013. In 2012, he threw a bit more at 24 attempts per game. The NFL Average is somewhere around 36... roughly 30% more passing for other NFL teams.

Kapernick averaged 26 A/G in both 2013 and 2014...

The other two, Luck and RGIII, are outliers. Luck is a transcendent talent, likely the next guy to enter that elite 5 player tier of QBs who rank consistently at the highest level of production year in and year out.

RGIII meanwhile appears to have been a fluke. He passed a ton in his rookie campaign and very successfully. Since then, his numbers have plummeted, and there is doubt whether he can even be a viable starter in this league.

In short: Hoyer is mediocre, and a proper offensive system can elevate this team to championship level. The QB position more than any other is seemingly judged by results: A team without a franchise QB can't win, thus a team that wins must have a franchise QB.

The entire discussion is a massive logical fallacy, but truth be told, Hoyer's production is consistent with other QBs who have succeeded at the highest level.

EDIT: Gotta find out how to make a table on this new forum

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Breakdown: For the Browns to succeed on offense this year they don’t even need Hoyer to be very good, they just need him to be better than disastrous and avoid actively putting the ball in harm’s way. He couldn’t do that in this game, throwing one pick, but flirting with several more over the course of the game.

Signature Play: Q2, 14:29. This is the play the Browns’ offense has been riding on all season. Deep play action shots. However, Hoyer needs to be able to read when they’re well covered and not just airmail the ball to defenders anyway. The crowd audibly groaned when this ball went in the air.

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jlj3184 said:

77 pages about this guy and some people still think he's good...smh.

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Maximus said:

Who above him had more talent?
More talent he has = more confidence
More talent he has = more success and accuracy

He's been good considering he has lost the best center in the nfl, the defense has underachieved, he hasn't had the #1 receiver in the nfl and he hasn't had his probowl tight end. And he had two rookie rbs. Are we going to completely ignore those fact when saying he's not good?

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jlj3184 said:

77 pages about this guy and some people still think he's good...smh.

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Soda said:

This is why there's 77 pages. Dude's been in the most important position on the field for 6 wins in 10 games. You shit on him like he's done nothing, which is why people are defending him. You act like you're dead-on.

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Maximus said:

Who above him had more talent?
More talent he has = more confidence
More talent he has = more success and accuracy

He's been good considering he has lost the best center in the nfl, the defense has underachieved, he hasn't had the #1 receiver in the nfl and he hasn't had his probowl tight end. And he had two rookie rbs. Are we going to completely ignore those fact when saying he's not good?

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Soda said:

This is why there's 77 pages. Dude's been in the most important position on the field for 6 wins in 10 games. You shit on him like he's done nothing, which is why people are defending him. You act like you're dead-on.

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Soda said:

This is why there's 77 pages. Dude's been in the most important position on the field for 6 wins in 10 games. You shit on him like he's done nothing, which is why people are defending him. You act like you're dead-on.

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