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Dion Waiters Traded

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Grade the Trade (Waiters + Kirk/Amundsen + 2nd rd pick for Smith, Shumpert, and 1st rd pick)

  • A+

    Votes: 18 7.1%
  • A

    Votes: 68 26.7%
  • B

    Votes: 106 41.6%
  • C

    Votes: 44 17.3%
  • D

    Votes: 10 3.9%
  • F

    Votes: 9 3.5%

  • Total voters
    255
  • Poll closed .
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I cannot give up on Waiters yet, but as someone else put it, my attitude towards him is waning. I really have no idea what kind of value we can even get for him at this point. Would he pout if traded to a team where he will not start? Will he shine if given the minutes?
 
Perhaps they need to break Dion in order for him to realize what he needs to do to be a valuable piece to a winning formula. At this point, however, I think that the more likely conclusion is that he is moved in a trade that brings back a post-defender or maybe even a 3-and-D player.

Your last paragraph there, particularly the phrase "break," reminds me of another situation - Danny Green.

In Green's case he had to be cut from rosters multiple times before he "got it" and how he is an important contributor on a championship team.

A different situation for sure with Dion, a different reason for needing to "break" him...but we should definitely try as much as we can to break him before trading him.
 
To add to my comment above, I still feel like there is a good possibility that we trade Waiters to the right situation and he eats our lunch for the next decade. Just imagine the Waiters/Irving match ups.
 
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-teen-at-syracuse-to-millionaire-in-cleveland

Dion Waiters was a typical college freshman in the fall of 2010. Well, other than on the basketball court where very few freshmen looked like him.

The similar part was the voice in his head that said the old man was crazy. My soon-to-be sophomore in college daughter hears that one constantly.

They know better, these 18-19-year-old geniuses. After all, they’ve been around the block. The very same block that us old people couldn’t find without a GPS. The GPS we’d have to get them to help us with.

There’s no use fighting the know-it-all attitude of the young. The only recourse is to grit your teeth, continue to know you’re right and wait for them to come around to that realization all on their own. And watch our hair get even grayer.

Now you know why the old man in this story, Syracuse basketball coach Jim Boeheim, is virtually bald and all gray. As parents we deal with teenage geniuses for a few years. Try the 36 years that Boeheim has “parented” hundreds of these joys.

Dion Waiters verbally committed to Syracuse during his sophomore year in high school. He was very familiar with the Orange program since his cousin Scoop Jardine and good friend Rick Jackson were on the team.

When Dion finally arrived on campus in the fall of 2010, he was brimming with the confidence that comes from being ranked as high as the nation’s 15th best basketball player coming out of high school. Pretty heady stuff.

The only relationship that Dion had with the bench was that it was used for resting as the coach talked to you. He didn’t consider it a seat for watching the game. He certainly didn’t know what it felt like to be sitting on it as the ball was tossed for the opening tip.

Dion fully expected to be in the starting Orange backcourt with Scoop. He saw no reason he wouldn’t be driving to the tin and hitting jumpers, just as he’d always done.

What he didn’t expect was to be sitting while sophomore Brandon Triche, the 132nd ranked player in his class, continued to start at shooting guard alongside Scoop.

Triche had started every game the previous season, his freshman year. While he had a nice season, averaging 11.1 points, 2.7 rebounds and 2.9 assists per game, Waiters clearly felt he would do better.

There were a couple of things Waiters didn’t realize. Triche’s ranking was skewed because he blew his knee out and missed the summer season before his high school junior year, which is an important evaluating time for recruiting. Prior to his freshman season, The Sporting News picked Triche as the freshman not ranked in the top 100 who would have the most impact that year.

The other thing Waiters didn’t understand was Boeheim’s loyalty to his veterans and disdain for tinkering with the starting lineup.

Dion had a so-so season, averaging 6.6 points, 1.6 rebounds and 1.5 assists per game. But he seemed a bit out of shape and certainly not very interested in the side of the court that didn’t involve the Orange having the ball.

As most 19-year-olds would do, Dion figured the old man was crazy and he knew better. Rumors were rampant that Waiters would be transferring.

At their meeting after the season, Boeheim told Waiters to get used to coming off the bench because Triche would be starting again next year. He told Dion that he needed more of a commitment to defense also. Now that he understood what it would be like if he returned, the transfer decision was up to him.

Here’s where Dion Waiters became very unlike a typical college freshman. He stopped thinking the old man was crazy. He listened to him. He went home to Philadelphia and lost about 15 pounds. He worked and worked on his conditioning and his shot.

He came back to Syracuse in the fall of 2011 leaner and no longer caring whether he started or came off the bench. His minutes went up from 16 per game as a freshman to 24 as a sophomore. His points went from 6.6 to 12.6, rebounds from 1.6 to 2.3 and assists from 1.5 to 2.5.

Most importantly his attitude was tremendous. He smiled and he cheered his teammates and had a great time on the court.

On the defensive side he became a fiend, leading the team with 1.8 steals per game. And he realized what so many before him did too. Hustling in that Orange 2-3 zone leads to lots and lots of breakouts and transition dunks. And those are fun.

Boeheim's take on Waiters now?

“He’s more ready for the NBA than any other guard I’ve ever had.” Boeheim said of Waiters. “Nobody will be able to guard him one-on-one unless their last name is Westbrook. He’ll go by anyone he faces.”

Was it a shock that Cleveland took Waiters at four in the recent draft? No. The previous two mock drafts that I’d seen right before the draft had Golden State taking him at seven. And the morning of the draft I heard that Cleveland was considering Waiters at four.

I bet he’s glad he overachieved in lessening the time frame it took him to realize the old man was right. I wish he’d talk to my daughter.

I dug up this article about Waiters' time at Syracuse. It sounds like he was going through the same stuff he is now with us during his Freshman year there.

He felt entitled by his lofty high school ranking, just like his lofty draft status, but he didn't realize that it was a completely arbitrary thing that means jack shit (just like where he was drafted).

He pouted and played like shit then, just like he is doing now.

The article makes it clear that he figured it out eventually his second year, and began doing all the things we want now like playing tenacious defense.

But the difference is, you can't trade a guy during the season in college basketball. Boeheim gave him the option to transfer over the summer, and didn't seem all that broken up about the possibility of him doing it, but luckily for him Dion changed his attitude.

As everyone has said, we are a team competing for a championship and can't worry about catering to the fragile mindset of a bench player. We should give him another month or two to see if he can catch a clue, but after that we have to move on.

I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being a Brandon Phillips situation, where dumb fans bitch about how we gave up on the guy, but sometimes you can only give a guy so many opportunities before you have to move on. If it's beneficial for Dion to move on then great, I wish the guy nothing but the best, but we need to focus on guys that purely care about winning.
 
Your last paragraph there, particularly the phrase "break," reminds me of another situation - Danny Green.

In Green's case he had to be cut from rosters multiple times before he "got it" and how he is an important contributor on a championship team.

A different situation for sure with Dion, a different reason for needing to "break" him...but we should definitely try as much as we can to break him before trading him.

The thing is, I'm not sure Danny Green ever had an attitude problem like Dion does.

Danny Green was doing everything, and anything he could, to make it in this league. Something just clicked, maybe it was Pop, I don't know what it was, but Danny Green found his niche in the NBA.

I don't think talent is a problem with Dion. He's talented enough to be a good player in this league. The problem with Dion, is that he thinks he's better than what he really is, and I believe Dion will always think about Dion first.

Kyrie last night had just 12 points, took 9 shots, and never once tried to force the issue, just to get his points. The team was playing well, and he seemed fine with it. That's growing up.

This notion Kyrie is selfish was a myth, he's just a young player that tends to try to do TOO MUCH when his team is in trouble.

Dion on the other hand, I'm sorry, I can't say the same at this point. I'm not trying to be a Dion hater. I liked him, I think he has a lot of attributes to be a solid player in this league.

I'm frustrated he doesn't get it, and I am not sure if he ever will. Probably not here though.
 
na kyrie was visibly upset at his lack of touches and when he went in in the 4th the first thing he did was take two shots.

the difference is he made his and dion didnt.

its hypocritical, but that is an advantage kyrie is working with more often than not
 
na kyrie was visibly upset at his lack of touches and when he went in in the 4th the first thing he did was take two shots.

the difference is he made his and dion didnt.

its hypocritical, but that is an advantage kyrie is working with more often than not

I didn't think Kyrie was "visably upset." Yeah, he took shots to start the game, but he was playing with a bunch of scrubs (minus the 90 secs that he was on the court with Love). I have no problem with him going into "take over" mode when he is the best guy on the court, because as you say he makes most of his shots.
 
It know it's extraordinarily frustrating, but we still have to be patient with Dion because trading him right now or soon means we'll be getting pennies on the dollar. I have shouted, "What kind of fucking shot was that?" and "Get your goddamn head out of your ass. Why are you going to do THIS on this type of team??" multiple times at the T.V. I feel what people are saying.

But here's the deal.What would we get back? If an ideal trade presents itself (the right 3 and D player, the right rim protector), yes, we hop on it, but are we going to get those deals?

The best case scenario is that Dion lives up to his talent. For this team to be special, we need a hustling, defending, open shot knocking down, slashing, open court threat Dion. Without him, what youth and athleticism do we have left? We have to be patient he can turn it around because I don't want pennies on the dollar in return.
 
na kyrie was visibly upset at his lack of touches and when he went in in the 4th the first thing he did was take two shots.

the difference is he made his and dion didnt.

its hypocritical, but that is an advantage kyrie is working with more often than not

I don't really agree there, Love and LeBron was out of the game, and that is his time to step up and be more aggressive offensively. The game looked to be over, but still, the way we've been playing lately, we needed to be sure it was.

What I'm saying is that throughout the game, Kyrie was active, and engaged in the game. He was playing hard defensively. LB was hot, Andy was feeling it, and Kyrie never tried to disrupt the rhythm out there. I know he had just 4 assists, but he was moving the ball, and focusing on getting others involved.

There's a difference between wanting the ball, and literally pouting out there, and not even getting back on defense because of it, specifically when your team is winning.
 
I can't help but think Dion will be dealt at the deadline if this pouting continues... And he's due for a contract soon and will likely want a bunch of money. Yes, LeBron likes him but after a while LeBron will get fed up w/ his attitude as well if he already hasn't.
 
Dion has a bad attitude, but that can be fixed by w inning team. His biggest issue is he has no role on this team. He is open and not getting looks and he cant deal with that. His greatest gift is his playmaking and we have essentially no need for it with kyrie and lebron we can always have elite playmaking on the floor, especially in the playoffs. His second best skill, he can get his own shot, again is fairly redundant.

So i think a trade is best either during the season or in the offseason. He will still have value, itwill just not be as much as cavs fans thought, but probably as much as the rest of the league have always thought. My bet is its haywoods deal, dion and the memphis pick to add a rim protector and a journeyman wing that can move marion to the bench.

obviously i have no idea who that is, my gut still says denver and looking like mcgee and foye given their cap status

Thebucks might be interested in adding a talent like waiters as his ball handling would upgrade baylis and allow them to play giannis as a 2 and parker as a 3 in tall lineups
 
Dion Truthers are the best. Keep up the good fight Truthers.

No, this is not like the Danny Green situation. Danny Green was a second round pick and four year college player who busted his ass trying to make an nba roster. Dion was the 4th pick of the draft and has felt entitled to playing time and touches ever since, while also drastically overrating his own talent and making zero effort to adapt and/or evolve his game to find a niche in this league.

This guy keeps showing you who he is and you Truthers refuse to see it. Take a bag of jerseys for this clown... just get him away from the other 14 guys.
 
It know it's extraordinarily frustrating, but we still have to be patient with Dion because trading him right now or soon means we'll be getting pennies on the dollar. I have shouted, "What kind of fucking shot was that?" and "Get your goddamn head out of your ass. Why are you going to do THIS on this type of team??" multiple times at the T.V. I feel what people are saying.

But here's the deal.What would we get back? If an ideal trade presents itself (the right 3 and D player, the right rim protector), yes, we hop on it, but are we going to get those deals?

The best case scenario is that Dion lives up to his talent. For this team to be special, we need a hustling, defending, open shot knocking down, slashing, open court threat Dion. Without him, what youth and athleticism do we have left? We have to be patient he can turn it around because I don't want pennies on the dollar in return.

The only question I have is why do we believe in trading him now would net a negative trade?
Unfortunately he is overvalued IMO- I don't believe the rest of the NBA views him in the same lofty way Cavs's fans seem to value him.
 
It know it's extraordinarily frustrating, but we still have to be patient with Dion because trading him right now or soon means we'll be getting pennies on the dollar. I have shouted, "What kind of fucking shot was that?" and "Get your goddamn head out of your ass. Why are you going to do THIS on this type of team??" multiple times at the T.V. I feel what people are saying.

But here's the deal.What would we get back? If an ideal trade presents itself (the right 3 and D player, the right rim protector), yes, we hop on it, but are we going to get those deals?

The best case scenario is that Dion lives up to his talent. For this team to be special, we need a hustling, defending, open shot knocking down, slashing, open court threat Dion. Without him, what youth and athleticism do we have left? We have to be patient he can turn it around because I don't want pennies on the dollar in return.

We might be stuck with him, but it depends really how much he's rubbing off in the locker room too. I don't know obviously, like much of us, since we're not there.

If he's becoming a problem within the locker room though, you have to start looking for a trade. I think you start feeling out his market anyways, which I'm sure they have.

Dion should be on his last string here. He's been given chance after chance, and he keeps blowing everyone of them.
 
na kyrie was visibly upset at his lack of touches and when he went in in the 4th the first thing he did was take two shots.

the difference is he made his and dion didnt.

its hypocritical, but that is an advantage kyrie is working with more often than not
I wouldn't say he was visibly upset, but he sure went into selfish mode on those possessions. I remember watching those possessions and thinking, "Wow Kyrie isn't thinking about anyone but Kyrie". But it was short lived, so I didn't have a problem with it (plus they were good shots and he made them, funny how making shots forgives all). And now looking at the box score, I can guess why, he was worrying about getting his.

I'd rather the offense ran a play through more than one player's hands even if the end result was a couple of good shots that were made.

I can't give up on Dion. He's not nearly as talented as Kyrie, but he certainly has some talent. He can drive, shoot and pass like few other guards in the league. He still needs to learn to finish (better this yeah, 54% eFG% on close shots to last years 47% and he's actually taking a higher percentage of close shots compared to last year). He's just taking too many stupid jump shots and even his good jump shots aren't falling like last year. At least let him get out of his shooting slump before we declare him "just as bad as his rookie year".
 
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