Dion Waiters Traded

[David.]

i know you guys dont think he was visibly upset.. Im basing that statement off of another poster who caught it when kyrie was going to the bench, i think in the third?

 

[KI4MVP]

na kyrie was visibly upset at his lack of touches and when he went in in the 4th the first thing he did was take two shots.

the difference is he made his and dion didnt.

its hypocritical, but that is an advantage kyrie is working with more often than not

our best player on the court taking a couple of shots doesn't mean he was visibly upset, he just wrapped up the game so he could go sit back down. I saw no indication at all at any point of the night that Kyrie was visibly upset. I saw lots of smiles from Kyrie.

In contrast, I didn't see Dion smile one time. I saw plenty of frustration. The standing under the basket after he missed a layup. Another play where he cut to the basket and flailed his arms because he didn't get a pass (never mind he wasn't exactly open), he constantly looked like we were down 30 instead of up 30, including the way he left the court when it was over.

He's on his way to being benched the whole game with his attitude.

 

[Kouki]

I can understand a bit of frustration from Dion. Even when we were destroying the Magic last night offensively, many times the offense was still running through two players - there were large stretches of the game where Dion was in where he didn't touch the ball, possession after possession. Probably doesn't feel like part of the team. Winning or not, that has got to be deflating to a young guy who has grown up being "the guy" on every team he's ever been on. And the dude lives and breathes basketball.

This isn't an excuse for him to pout to the extent he has been, but I can certainly understand some level of frustration from him due to his lack of involvement and playing time. What Dion needs to realize is that he won't get more opportunity until he does the little things that get Cherry, Delly, and Harris time right now. ie he needs to fix himself before his role on the team is "fixed," and not vice-versa.

The two-man-game-every-time-down-the-floor might cut it against the Magic but it won't against better defenses. We need to get everyone touches on offensive, both to keep players involved in the team game, and because it is more effective.

 

[EugB23]

He's not going to be happy getting 8 shots a game coming off the bench and it's going to eventually affect his defense and overall game IMHO... He needs the ball in his hands to be happy and it affects his attitude on both ends of the floor when he doesn't get it....

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Dion has a bad attitude, but that can be fixed by w inning team.

The argument is that winning isn't enough for Dion. Unless he personally gets the shots/points/recognition he thinks he deserves, a win really doesn't matter much too him. He's pouted even when the team itself is playing really well.

His biggest issue is he has no role on this team. He is open and not getting looks and he cant deal with that. His greatest gift is his playmaking and we have essentially no need for it with kyrie and lebron we can always have elite playmaking on the floor, especially in the playoffs. His second best skill, he can get his own shot, again is fairly redundant.

At the beginning of the season, I thought Dion was trying really hard to fit in. I get the sense that he just doesn't know how to fit in. I'm not sure if its his "game" as much as it is that he might just lack the BBIQ to pull it off. You can see him drift to an open spot, wait for a pass that never comes, then sort of deflate when that pass doesn't come. But what the team actually needs is more movement, more cuts, and not someone just standing around in one spot waving his arms.

In other words, I think Dion believes that he is actually doing the right thing, and is frustrated that it isn't resulting in more opportunities. Maybe he just doesn't understand the game well enough to understand what it is he should be doing.

 

[Brizzle]

I

na kyrie was visibly upset at his lack of touches and when he went in in the 4th the first thing he did was take two shots.

the difference is he made his and dion didnt.

its hypocritical, but that is an advantage kyrie is working with more often than not

I did notice that Kyries body language was strange. Don't know why or if it truly was about touches, but LBJ did pat him on the head a couple of times presumably trying to keep him in the game mentally. Just stuck out as weird to me being that we were blowing Orlando out.

As for Dion I'm still a fan. I love his swagger and I do think he has a chance to be a really good player. But if Blatt is going to use him the way he is and Dion is going to respond the way he is, it would probably serve all parties best if he's traded else where.

I think he could be special here still but he could benefit from a fresh start. Problem is as it's been stated, he doesn't have much trade value.

 

[godfather]

He's not going to be happy getting 8 shots a game coming off the bench and it's going to eventually affect his defense and overall game IMHO... He needs the ball in his hands to be happy and it affects his attitude on both ends of the floor when he doesn't get it....

If that's the only way he can be happy, then good-bye. He's not going to run the offense anymore. It should have been clear as day to him that he's not going to get the shots he used to, and his days of running the offense, are pretty much over.

That's why he should and will be IMO gone by the deadline. He just doesn't want to do what is needed, and this team shouldn't be hand holding him to figure out what should have been obvious.

I'd be more tolerable if he was simply just struggling with this new role. I expected him to, but he seems to be taking more careless shots than ever. To me, that's just Dion's way of saying I'm getting my shots regardless of how.

That's not a guy embracing a new role.

 

[ice cream man]

I'm not disagreeing with pretty much any of the these criticisms, but....I mean, he still should be running the 2nd unit. Will Cherry? Sure, we can get by with that against the Magic...

 

[TyGuy]

He didn't get benched @ Syracuse. Boeheim believes in seniority. He started the players whom had been with him longest.

Yeah, he did the same thing with Carmelo Anthony.

 

[kovanovich]

I'm just hoping he can string together a few good games so that some struggling team will be willing to flip a decent 3 and D guy for him. Iman Shumpert was brought up this summer, though some observed that he couldn't actually shoot and was injury prone. The other thing is I don't think Phil Jackson is likely to be a fan of Waiters' game.

Aside from his other shortcomings, just once I would like to see him move into position and grab a long rebound, rather than stand there flat-footed while a guard from the other team runs in and gets the offensive board. I don't know how many times I have seen that from him this year, and it's cost the team numerous possessions.

 

[JSS2306]

I've always really felt Dion's potential rested in the fact that he can get to the rim at a pretty decent clip. While he constantly stagnated on his finishes, I was under the impression he would use his offseason's to improve in that area and become a dynamic player.

He literally looks the same if not worse. He believes in his head that his step back jumpers are a sight to behold but I would argue they dramatically drop his value around the league. Him playing within the system and getting better is a plus... but those god awful finishes just wreak of poor workmanship.

I really hope he makes the proper adjustments to his game both mentally and fundamentally. I think he gets way too high on his drives and gets flabbergasted with anticipation which ends up with so many awkward finishing touches around the rim.

It's tough to watch sometimes and his ceiling right now is role player off the bench because of it. That's personally disappointing for me to watch.

I really believe he's capable of so much more.

 

[Cashius X]

Yeah, he did the same thing with Carmelo Anthony.

Melo started as a true freshman but when he went to Cuse they were already short of capable forwards. The only other capable forward on that team was Hakim Warrick who averaged 13 ppg that season. The next highest scoring forward only averaged 3 points per game so obviously he wasn't a key part of the team.

When Dion was @ Cuse they were already sporting a good guard rotation and were deep at his position. Boeheim simply played the guys whom had been with him the longest which has long been a practice of his.

It's actually been pretty well-documented that this was the case in terms of Dion's time @ Cuse. He didn't get "benched", he just came off the bench because Boeheim is a believer in seniority. You should know this...

 

[CosmoKramer]

Yeah, he did the same thing with Carmelo Anthony.

Completely different situations. Syracuse lost it's top two scorers (Preston Shumpert and Deshaun Williams) the year before Melo led them to a national title, him and Gerry McNamara (pride of Scranton!) didn't supplant anyone in the starting lineup.

Completely different from Dion, who came to a team with entrenched starters in Brandon Triche and Scoop Jardine. He never lost a starting job under Boeheim, so technically he was never really benched.

EDIT: And Looney beats me to the punch.

 

[TyGuy]

Melo started as a true freshman but when he went to Cuse they were already short of capable forwards. The only other capable forward on that team was Hakim Warrick who averaged 13 ppg that season. The next highest scoring forward only averaged 3 points per game so obviously he wasn't a key part of the team.

When Dion was @ Cuse they were already sporting a good guard rotation and were deep at his position. Boeheim simply played the guys whom had been with him the longest which has long been a practice of his.

It's actually been pretty well-documented that this was the case in terms of Dion's time @ Cuse. He didn't get "benched", he just came off the bench because Boeheim is a believer in seniority. You should know this...

Yes, I guess should know anything and everything about basketball dating back at least fifty years. How about you know this. There seems to be a correlation with players that come out of Boehiem's system and being terrible defenders in the nba, especially when not guarding the basketball, Dion is no exception to this phenomenon. Let's get back to the original point though; Carmelo Anthony was a supreme talent, and that is why he started, and partly what i was trying to get at. You can come here and say that these really good players had seniority and that it is Boeheim's way, but i'm calling BS. If Dion was a much better player, was in better shape, and had a much better attitude, he would have started. Do you mean to tell me had guys like Chris Paul, Dwyane Wade, Kyrie Irving, ect. had come into that program instead of Dion at that time that scoop Jackson and whoever that other guy was in the back court would have continued starting over them?

Since I guess we are going to be splitting hairs about what constitutes being benched, I will say this. Who really gives a shit? This is 4 coaches in a row that has felt that Dion belongs on the bench. Does it matter that he didn't initially start? No, I don't think so. We shouldn't act like everything was roses and he was perfectly happy coming off the bench at Syracuse.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Yes, I guess should know anything and everything about basketball dating back at least fifty years.

Well, you should probably not reference things you don't know.

You can come here and say that these really good players had seniority and that it is Boeheim's way, but i'm calling BS.

There's a link upthread about this very phenomenon, Post #17329.

Since I guess we are going to be splitting hairs about what constitutes being benched, I will say this. Who really gives a shit? This is 4 coaches in a row that has felt that Dion belongs on the bench. Does it matter that he didn't initially start? No, I don't think so. We shouldn't act like everything was roses and he was perfectly happy coming off the bench at Syracuse.

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