Farewell, Timofey Mozgov

Who's that poster who had Mozgov eating a piece of pizza in the locker room as his avatar? Kinda funny looking back at that.

westsidebob said:

Can we stop with the "heavily protected" line already?

The OKC pick is likely to convey next year as a mid-late 1st rounder.

The MEM pick is fairly heavily protected for the next two drafts and top 5 protected for the next two. The protection is why the Cavs wanted the pick. Realistically when that pick is actually conveyed it will be late lottery.

Now sure, that's a long way in the future, but so was the Cavs 1982 first rounder that they dealt in early 1980. That turned into #1 overall and James Worthy.

So yes, a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow, but acting like the dollar tomorrow is worthless is very short sighted.

It's hindsight, but I think it's a fair question - With the assets the Cavaliers had at the end of the 2013-14 season and the knowledge that LeBron was coming back, could those assets have been deployed in a way that would have created a stronger TEAM (not a collection of talented players) and provided the Cavs with more roster and salary flexibility going forward?

Personally, I think the answer is yes.

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No we can't stop with the "heavily protected" line. It's like you don't understand what that means.

I didn't say they both would never convey as first rounders, I said they were heavily protected.

Which means, "Limited in what kind of return they can provide."

Assuming both are conveyed as first rounders (a likely but not guaranteed outcome) that still doesn't mean that a) the Cavs will choose wisely b) any useful players, especially the much-needed Bigs would be available and c) either of those picks will develop in a timely fashion, while in concert with the overall window.

And that is the point. Which remains in full force and effect.




PS: It is beyond absurd that you went back to 1980-82 for your example. I barely even know what to say to that.

I could say all the obvious things, for example:

If you have to go back three decades for your example, it's probably not a good one.

Or, only one of the two picks had even a zillion to one shot of becoming a Top 5 pick -- in 2019.

Or, maybe: even if a miracle happens, what good does a 2019 pick do this current window?

Or, the issue that the 2019 pick would still have to actually pan out and develop.

Have you any sense of the incalculably long odds to which you're clinging?

No, obviously not.

So I'm left with this conundrum of trying to explain: any rational person would instantly realize the absurdity of your example--yet you gave it anyway, which means by definition I'm trying to rationally explain something to someone incapable of rational thought.

So I won't bother.

Not to get into you guys' argument, but it's silly to say the OKC pick is "heavily protected." It would have likely been conveyed this year.

Sir John said:

No we can't stop with the "heavily protected" line. It's like you don't understand what that means.

I didn't say they both would never convey as first rounders, I said they were heavily protected.

Which means, "Limited in what kind of return they can provide."

Assuming both are conveyed as first rounders (a likely but not guaranteed outcome) that still doesn't mean that a) the Cavs will choose wisely b) any useful players, especially the much-needed Bigs would be available and c) either of those picks will develop in a timely fashion, while in concert with the overall window.

And that is the point. Which remains in full force and effect.




PS: It is beyond absurd that you went back to 1980-82 for your example. I barely even know what to say to that.

I could say all the obvious things, for example:

If you have to go back three decades for your example, it's probably not a good one.

Or, only one of the two picks had even a zillion to one shot of becoming a Top 5 pick -- in 2019.

Or, maybe: even if a miracle happens, what good does a 2019 pick do this current window?

Or, the issue that the 2019 pick would still have to actually pan out and develop.

Have you any sense of the incalculably long odds to which you're clinging?

No, obviously not.

So I'm left with this conundrum of trying to explain: any rational person would instantly realize the absurdity of your example--yet you gave it anyway, which means by definition I'm trying to rationally explain something to someone incapable of rational thought.

So I won't bother.

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But you just did, and attacked plenty of strawmen, none of which I actually argued. Well done, Lancelot!

One last time, picks have value. Not just as draft picks to their original owner, which is how the Cavs acquired them in the first place. Overpaying now (which I believe the majority of us will agree they did) limits their opportunities in both the immediate and long-range future.

Is this the only move they could have made with those assets? Was this move the highest and best use of those picks? Or was this move made out panic and desperation caused by panicked desperate moves made in the past all in the name of "win now"?

gourimoko said:

Not to get into you guys' argument, but it's silly to say the OKC pick is "heavily protected." It would have likely been conveyed this year.

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Gour, I think(maybe wrongly) they mean its heavily protected against being a premium pick.

I.e The very best its ever going to be is the 19th or 20th pick in this years draft.

MozGOD the destroyer is on his way. This dude is gonna change this team so much. No more complaining only winning. Dude is a beast who's had a leash on for the last few years.

Didn't know Mozgov had 3 point range, also impressed by his decent explosiveness considering how damn big he is.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LvMnCC4PHM

I admit I did not know Mozgov actually could shoot it a little bit. I'm so excited about this trade, I just want to fast forward a month to where everyone is healthy. I can't wait to see him in action.

Wonder if Dalembert is still on the Cavs radar or is Love, Moz, TT and Haywood enough? My opinion is Dalembert would be perfect for off the bench center behind Moz and TT off for Love ect

Haywood isn't getting minutes even against Dwight, so it seems Blatt doesnt want him.

This guy is a late blooming gem who put on the right team will be a headache. A dirty work guy who can shock you with his speed and size as well is better offensively than you think. Like the other poster said his leash is off we will see what he can really do.

Yeah. They still need to pick up a 4th big. Haywood has to be the 5th big. Mop up minutes. or guy you bring in solely to use some fouls.

The Dalembert situation should resolve itself soon. If he's not coming here, we have to keep looking and be mindful of the buyout market.

Mr. MacPhisto said:

Not sure. The problem is once we got LeBron, other teams were going to be asking for more back in any trade because they were helping a title contender - or at least a team that was setting itself up to be one. Those teams pay more.

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People make this claim from time to time, and maybe it's true -- I've certainly never negotiated a trade in the NBA. But I don't think this particular trade proves it and I tend to think it's not a huge factor. Makes more sense to me that teams make deals that they feel are in their best interest.

In this instance, the Cavs could have bargained more aggressively by playing off Boston (who have Wright) and Memphis (who have Koufos) and any other team with a serviceable big. Hey, for the purpose of strengthening your negotiating posture, you could get into discussions with the Lakers for Sacre or Ed Davis, even if you really didn't want either of them.

Taking this approach, I think it likely you could eventually have gotten one of your targets for just one of the picks. However, it wouldn't have happened right away, and there is some value in getting the guy you want now instead of a month or more from now. Plus, it seems pretty clear to me that Mozgov is the guy the Cavs really preferred. For them, it wasn't a matter of getting a "serviceable" big (which was my concern), but rather to get Mozgov, and if Denver absolutely refused to deal him you try to get Wright or Koufos.

Personally, if I am Denver I couldn't care less what Cleveland is doing or whether they win a championship, especially since they are an Eastern conference team. I am interested in Denver, and at the end of the day if the best offer out there for Mozgov is one pick, I would consider making the deal. Boston presumably has to trade Wright this year, since he is expiring, and ultimately they'd likely trade him for one pick. Of course, unlike Mozgov, he becomes a free agent in the off-season, so there's that.

We've also seen teams being willing to sell late first round picks in the past for a variety of reasons

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Sure, that's possible, but as Wuck recently reminded us, the Cavs have used at least $1.3M of the $3.3M they can use in trades this year (July-June). So they likely won't be buying a first round pick this year.

I am sort of indifferent about whether the Cavs actually use their draft picks. David Griffin himself called the draft a "guessing game," and I think so long as the Cavs feel they are a contender it is reasonable to use picks as trade chips to get proven NBA players. I have no real problem with this strategy, but it's sort of alarming how quickly the Cavs have gone through their collected assets. Unfortunately, they started the process with the Deng and Hawes trades.

So my concern isn't whether they actually draft players, but whether they have draft picks to use in deals. At least so long as they feel they are potentially a competitive team.

I would be shocked if one of them turned into the #1 pick. If it did, it depends on our results. If Mozgov contributes to the Cavs winning a championship, few would complain. We're so starved for one from any one of our teams.

If OKC improves, as expected, then that pick will probably be in the 20s. Time will tell. Right now the Cavs get a present asset for future promise. If they hold onto Mozgov long term and he proves a vital cog in the paint for a handful of years, I think a strong argument could be made for the trade.

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here he is shitting on us this year:

hes so much bigger than AV/TT/KLove its crazy

CavsHomer said:

That's so unbelievably bad I don't even know what to say anymore.
That's just flat out ridiculous. Hopefully Mozgov can somehow fix this.

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Love's was around 65% earlier this season, so maybe playing with Tristan has helped bring it down.